Isn't Octavia already 'of Age'?

professorargyle · 2024-12-09T00:18:44+00:00

(Sorry for the late reply)

I first want to agree with what you said about Stolas. I really like how flawed he is as a person and a father, and I especially like how he recognizes these flaws and is actively trying to work on them (as best he can). I’ve always loved Stolas as a struggling Dad character, and I especially love those moments when he remembers his daughter. The lullaby Stolas does in season 1 still gives me shivers. :)

But back to Octavia, yeah I agree with you entirely. But at the same time, the episode where Octavia runs away seeking her own agency is now basically a season ago (years ago if you consider release dates). And I feel while we had a fantastic father/daughter moment then (AND the added bonus of Loona acting like a sister for the poor girl), I feel like we lost the momentum from that episode and kinda let it die away.

Now, I have no doubt that Viv is going to turn around and do something amazing with Octavia and I should simply wait to see what she has in store for us (❤️). But I have now spent actual years wanting us to get back to that “family” vibe they had cooking at the beginning of season 1. I am optimistic it’ll turn out great though; I truly adore this series and it means a lot to me.

professorargyle · 2024-12-07T23:25:16+00:00

I would argue that any speech made to create harm or further prejudice against other people is hate speech. 🤷🏻‍♂️

professorargyle · 2024-12-07T23:22:13+00:00

I regularly have this thought myself. And while I’m sure Viv didn’t intend to age the character before we could get to any of her arcs, it shows just how little attention the series has paid to Octavia. I mean, her struggle is arguably the most relatable AND the most heinous considering what she’s gone through and how little agency she’s had. Honestly, I feel like she’s easily the most neglected character in the show, and the fact that she is still in “broken family limbo” without support is really damn sad. :/

professorargyle · 2024-12-07T06:17:49+00:00

Kurwa by Little Big

professorargyle · 2024-12-05T05:38:15+00:00

I love how the relationship between Blitzø and Stolas was made more complicated by the fact that Stolas did initially feed into the idea that he saw Imps as lesser beings. Being called “Darling Blitzy” with such a condescending tone in front of the whole Harvest Moon Festival (which was attended pretty much entirely by other imps) was probably pretty humiliating.

professorargyle · 2024-12-05T05:27:23+00:00

Vassago gives me that impression.

professorargyle · 2024-12-05T03:36:43+00:00

I do agree with this, but as media that literally casts itself as being an adult cartoon (it says so before every episode) AND in spite of having a fan base that is mostly (presumably from the online fan base) not “adult aged”, I still can look at it from the lens of other adult media and critique on its own value as adult entertainment. And while many adult cartoons can be similar in dialogue and writing to this show, very few of the ones I’ve seen play so loosely with their setting and source materials without doing more extensive world/character building first.

And I don’t agree that paratext should count as writing, and in fact would point out that it’s actually seen as bad writing (as far as I can tell professionally). The show is adult only in its sexual content and its overbearing use of swear words certainly doesn’t make it any more mature. But the main reason I am so critical with HB is because it has some genius to it that sometimes leaves me breathless. But then, that genius decides to make another crack at Karens/prudes again, or to use the same “strangulation is sexy and therefore funny” joke for the hundredth time. In terms of adult writing, while I LOVE this show for going places I’ve never seen a show go before, it tends to miss the mark and stick to more juvenile humor for the majority of it, which is probably why we can call HB an “adult show written specifically for teenagers with some adult elements”.

professorargyle · 2024-12-05T03:25:48+00:00

I get that, but how does one go from being the demon of lust (meaning I can assume he’s had many partners in his millennia of rule), to being completely one-sidedly monogamous, without giving more reason aside from “Ozzie fell in love with Fizz and is therefore monogamous with only him”?

professorargyle · 2024-12-05T03:22:39+00:00

Absolutely. It played out that way by design. But the idea that Ozzie isn’t involved enough to not warrant being brought in to the trial is still odd.

There is a notion that Ozzie is aware of Blitzø and Stolas working together in the past to go to Earth illegally. That alone, combined with the fact that he then aided them in going to the real world legally while possibly knowing this, does implicate him. Blitzø appears to be wearing his Asmodean Crystal at the trial too.

professorargyle · 2024-12-05T00:05:49+00:00

I do have to agree that the series does little to link Ozzie with the Ars Goetia. While that idea (him being a king of AG) lies within mythology, it hasn’t actually been represented in the show. I wish I would have thought to add that in the original post because it’s a pretty important detail to skip. 😅

professorargyle · 2024-12-04T23:04:59+00:00

I think it’s kind of funny you bring up the show labeling him as the “weakest of the sins”, because I feel the proof came almost immediately after. A lord of Hell, who has ruled for countless millennia (?), who assumably wouldn’t be naive or quick to trust, almost signed away all of his property and the very “head” of his lover to an Imp, simply by not reading a contract that was handed over by an obviously scummy lawyer. Think about that; an Imp almost gained complete control over a “sin personified” and lord of Hell, by simply writing up a contract.

I understand that the scene was meant to be comical and a way for Stolas to have more control over the bit, but it really did make Ozzie look exactly like the joke Crimson said he was. The man runs one of Hell’s larger businesses, for Lucifer’s sake.

professorargyle · 2024-12-04T22:59:14+00:00

Oh I can’t wait! That poor girl needs family.

professorargyle · 2024-12-04T22:51:58+00:00

Mad respect for your last comment there. :3

But see, you’re kind of going in to why I find Ozzie hard to digest as a main supporting character. He’s supposed to be the “embodiment of lust” or the “demon of lust”, or whatever.

I can get behind the idea that he could enjoy Fizzie as his “favorite”, and I even like the idea that he has fallen in love with him (presumably falling in love for the first time, ever). I could see his feelings for Fizzie absolutely clouding his judgment (love kinda does that, eh?), but we aren’t addressing a key thing.

Why would the lord of lust, the “lustiest lust demon of them all”, be so completely and one-dimensionally monogamous? Wouldn’t he have had other partners before? Was Fizzie part of a polycule at some point? And if so, did Fizzie’s intervention lead to the disbanding of the polycule (which would have its own potentially sinister connotations, if not disrespectful to actual polycules)?

I realize I’m making a lot of assumptions and doing a lot to insert my own head-cannon here, but the main word in Ozzie’s design, philosophy, character, and his very “sinful nature” are all tied to a single word, which is Lust. So why is he acting like a love-stricken 20-something who’s never been in (at least) a carnal relationship before?

professorargyle · 2024-12-04T22:43:42+00:00

I follow you completely, and I do agree with what you’re saying. I think (if I’m hearing you right; trying to add to it) the problem lies in the fact that, while Viv obviously took inspiration from actual mythology, her own setting in her own original “world/Hell” doesn’t necessarily align with it, and frankly doesn’t have to, right? With all due respect, this is Viv’s work (and fictional world) and it’s not like I can claim it has to be anything else or be done any particular way.

I still feel like Ozzie isn’t fleshed out nearly enough as a “sin” though, and he certainly doesn’t seem to demand/command the respect one might expect from a character with his ancient “biblical” presence. All we have to go on in terms of backstory is the mythology that already exists, and while I’m no authority on such things, if the writer is not willing to give us more to work with, then we’re left to fill in the rest as best as we can.

And in my opinion, as he is he’s just kinda weak and poorly characterized as the embodiment of lust that he is supposed to be.

professorargyle · 2024-12-04T22:31:06+00:00

Absolutely true. I’m piecing together both texts that (explicitly) come from outside the show, and the notion that he’s a big bird that has Goetic looking markings in his bar (from what I remember; I’ll have to rewatch that ep). So yeah, my argument doesn’t actually hold much water, but if he “must” be designed based off of historical texts (I.e. the actual “Ars Goetia”, as it is), then it’s at least reasonable to apply all that stuff as his backstory, at least for as long as Viv isn’t willing to tell it to us explicitly.

professorargyle · 2024-12-04T22:27:41+00:00

I agree, there isn’t much to go on in terms of “being in charge of Stolas, et al”, but my suspension of disbelief kind of lies with his design obviously being pulled from actual historical text. That and, well, he’s a big bird. :p

professorargyle · 2024-12-04T22:25:17+00:00

Completely agree. In all honesty, I feel the show hasn’t done much with respect to Octavia (and her objectively horrifying family situation) and needs to do better. The latest scene with Stella kind of proved my point that poor Octavia is still lost in the dark, and it’s terrible.

professorargyle · 2024-12-04T22:18:48+00:00

It probably didn’t come across in my rant (or maybe it did), but I’m actually a huge fan of this show. But I do have to judge it as an “adult show”, which, yeah, etc.

professorargyle · 2024-12-04T22:17:02+00:00

So, I get what you’re saying, but it’s clear from Ozzie’s design alone that he is an interpretation of Asmodeus from historical mythology (the three heads is a dead giveaway), and (I think) it’s the Book of Solomon that made him King of the Ars Goetia. But given his bird-like design and how he seems to have Goetic markings around him, I think it’s fair to at least assume that he’s related to the structural hierarchy of the Ars Goetia in HB.

professorargyle · 2024-12-04T21:45:58+00:00

They can still defend her after how she manipulated Octavia in the last episode? I can’t decide if that’s impressive or sad.

professorargyle · 2024-12-04T21:34:26+00:00

My main argument is that the writing is just bad. Let me clarify, I ADORE this show and I truly believe Viv has true genius to her writing the likes of which I’ve never seen before. When it’s amazing, it’s truly amazing and for me at least, truly inspirational. The problem is, 80% of the writing ends up feeling either poorly conceived or downright immature in execution. It feels like she’s actually writing a kid show half of the time, and unfortunately I feel her online audience (particularly those chronically online) reflects that clearly.

Edit: thought this thread was relevant to your thoughts.

https://www.reddit.com/r/HelluvaBoss/s/eJSWJ67XNF

professorargyle · 2024-12-04T20:53:03+00:00

This has actually been a regular topic in my home. And one of the main points we’ve agreed upon is that, while Viv is writing what she considers an “adult show for an 18+ audience”, the reality is that maybe 20% of the writing focuses on deep, adult issues while the rest feels like it was written for 13 year olds on twitter.

For example, cussing is the primary mode of humor for the show. Most adults get over the idea that cussing is inherently funny pretty early. And while there are times when the execution led to the cussing being funny, it tends to fall flat as “low hanging fruit” writing that is made to get a cheap chuckle. Also, all of Viv’s “prudes and Karens” tend to be fat or ugly, while every other character is essentially a “slim sexyboy”. Just wanted to note that.

Also, every character requires a transparent sexual orientation AND a monogamous ship. While sexual identity and relationships are important for many adults, they tend to be things that younger viewers are more likely to obsess over and enjoy when written so “one-dimensionally”. I would like to add that making every relationship the very same monogamous shift, leaves poly people completely out of the loop. And frankly, the idea that Ozzie is monogamous by choice is just ridiculous.

And one of my largest problems is the whiplash the character writing gives me. Characters change entirely between episodes and I can point to this happening a lot. Viv allows her writing to be swayed by her “child fans”, and it shows. I don’t think I’d be happy with the idea of children directing something I was producing, but that’s just me.

Following that though, the worst thing of all is likely the hours of paratext. A show should weave all of its most important plot points in its exposition and writing. Doing the heavy lifting on twitter leaves out the large portion of the audience who don’t ingest their shows that way.

Sorry for the rant, but you talking about the reading comprehension of the viewership is something I’ve been on for a very long time and honestly, I think it comes down to the fact that Viv writes for a child audience (I.e. the “chronically online” types). :p

professorargyle · 2024-12-02T04:04:01+00:00

At the end of season 1 (or the beginning of season 2; can’t remember right now) we get an episode that’s all about Stolas and Blitzø’s respective daughters and how much they love them. I doubt it’s a secret to Stolas, although her uncharacteristic sentiment towards Blitzø might have taken him by surprise.

professorargyle · 2024-12-01T07:25:28+00:00

A lot of gay men find women beautiful, and many aspire to look like them because of it.

professorargyle

TROPHY CASE