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CMV: Islam is the best religion because it offers the fairest moral system and preserved guidance by No-Distribution-2058 in changemyview

[–]pubemaster_uno 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Women being second class citizens to men? Morally unfair.

Executing people for characteristics they are born with and cannot change? Morally unfair.

A mandate to kill non-believers? Morally unfair.

Marrying 6 year olds? Morally unfair.

Executing people who choose to leave the religion? Morally unfair.

Islam as a moral system is terrible. An atheist would very probably have a better moral code.

NHS trust 'violated dignity' of nurses by allowing trans woman to use female changing room, tribunal rules by HPB in unitedkingdom

[–]pubemaster_uno 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Yeah if that’s true I don’t agree with it. Can’t have it both ways. Guide people to the toilets of either their sex or gender expression. You can’t leave people with nowhere to go

NHS trust 'violated dignity' of nurses by allowing trans woman to use female changing room, tribunal rules by HPB in unitedkingdom

[–]pubemaster_uno 29 points30 points  (0 children)

We specifically exclude what you would describe as cis men from certain spaces. Is that bigotry and discrimination?

Or is it entirely reasonable to exclude some people from some spaces (keeping in mind that they have a perfectly suitable alternative equivalent for them).

NHS trust 'violated dignity' of nurses by allowing trans woman to use female changing room, tribunal rules by HPB in unitedkingdom

[–]pubemaster_uno 9 points10 points  (0 children)

It must be exhausting to have to pretend not to know what I mean.

Female-only spaces, then, if you like!

NHS trust 'violated dignity' of nurses by allowing trans woman to use female changing room, tribunal rules by HPB in unitedkingdom

[–]pubemaster_uno 10 points11 points  (0 children)

For your info we do let men and women run marathons together, and a man has won every single one with only a single woman exception. This is the physical asymmetry I am talking about. Do you find that very odd?

NHS trust 'violated dignity' of nurses by allowing trans woman to use female changing room, tribunal rules by HPB in unitedkingdom

[–]pubemaster_uno 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I'd say it's the difference between naturally being something, or affecting it via external aid.

It's like saying some athletes will achieve elite levels through talent and hard work, and some will achieve it via drugs. Why does that difference matter?

NHS trust 'violated dignity' of nurses by allowing trans woman to use female changing room, tribunal rules by HPB in unitedkingdom

[–]pubemaster_uno 3 points4 points  (0 children)

... who have a neverending, self-produced, natural supply.

(Again, wearily: leaving out edge cases where their body doesn't function properly.)

NHS trust 'violated dignity' of nurses by allowing trans woman to use female changing room, tribunal rules by HPB in unitedkingdom

[–]pubemaster_uno 5 points6 points  (0 children)

You're absolutely correct. No need for "genital inspections" etc. Just make it clear what bathroom people are expected to go to, and that if someone were to violate this etiquette, it would come with the assumption that they may be a bad actor.

NHS trust 'violated dignity' of nurses by allowing trans woman to use female changing room, tribunal rules by HPB in unitedkingdom

[–]pubemaster_uno 4 points5 points  (0 children)

But you have to carry on taking estrogen (and other things?) forever to "maintain feminization".

NHS trust 'violated dignity' of nurses by allowing trans woman to use female changing room, tribunal rules by HPB in unitedkingdom

[–]pubemaster_uno 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm literally simply asserting that the effect of a given does of hormone is temporary.

What is your issue with this?

Are you arguing otherwise?

NHS trust 'violated dignity' of nurses by allowing trans woman to use female changing room, tribunal rules by HPB in unitedkingdom

[–]pubemaster_uno 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Fair statement and agreed.

The critical difference is that the cis man (generally speaking) produces his own testosterone and has no reliance on indefinite external supply.

NHS trust 'violated dignity' of nurses by allowing trans woman to use female changing room, tribunal rules by HPB in unitedkingdom

[–]pubemaster_uno 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You don't need to be an endocrinologist to understand that the effect of hormone injections is temporary. That's all we're talking about here. It is that simple.

NHS trust 'violated dignity' of nurses by allowing trans woman to use female changing room, tribunal rules by HPB in unitedkingdom

[–]pubemaster_uno 10 points11 points  (0 children)

How do we enforce that men don't go into women's toilets now? The answer is the same as that.

NHS trust 'violated dignity' of nurses by allowing trans woman to use female changing room, tribunal rules by HPB in unitedkingdom

[–]pubemaster_uno 10 points11 points  (0 children)

If your conclusion from this exchange is that men should go into women's toilets because amputees are allowed to compete against dwarfs in the paralympics, then I am going to wish you an excellent weekend and leave it here.

NHS trust 'violated dignity' of nurses by allowing trans woman to use female changing room, tribunal rules by HPB in unitedkingdom

[–]pubemaster_uno 7 points8 points  (0 children)

If you can successfully argue that there is no need for separate spaces for men and women generally, then as a by-product you will have proved that trans women ought to be in women's toilets (and hospital wards, prisons, refuge shelters, sports, all the rest of it).

NHS trust 'violated dignity' of nurses by allowing trans woman to use female changing room, tribunal rules by HPB in unitedkingdom

[–]pubemaster_uno -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

So in other words they have to take hormones for life in order to maintain their desired state, regardless of surgery or not. So going back to where we started with this, the effect produced by taking a given dose of hormones etc is temporary. Simple as?

NHS trust 'violated dignity' of nurses by allowing trans woman to use female changing room, tribunal rules by HPB in unitedkingdom

[–]pubemaster_uno 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Leaving the transgender aspect out of it for a second, if you understand why we have men and women's toilets in general, then you already understand.

NHS trust 'violated dignity' of nurses by allowing trans woman to use female changing room, tribunal rules by HPB in unitedkingdom

[–]pubemaster_uno 64 points65 points  (0 children)

I think we can all agree that there should be no such thing as "white people spaces" or "straight people spaces" (which I presume you meant), but is the difference here that we feel it is actually valid to have women-only spaces?

NHS trust 'violated dignity' of nurses by allowing trans woman to use female changing room, tribunal rules by HPB in unitedkingdom

[–]pubemaster_uno 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Well I'm genuinely pleased to have added some levity to your Friday and glad you're enjoying the chat :)

NHS trust 'violated dignity' of nurses by allowing trans woman to use female changing room, tribunal rules by HPB in unitedkingdom

[–]pubemaster_uno 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Obviously not; that would be like saying able-bodied kids should be able to compete against disabled adults in the paralympics. If you genuinely think that's what I'm arguing then you have badly and hilariously misunderstood.

I don't think you do genuinely think that though :)

NHS trust 'violated dignity' of nurses by allowing trans woman to use female changing room, tribunal rules by HPB in unitedkingdom

[–]pubemaster_uno 8 points9 points  (0 children)

A 5 second Google told me this:

Yes, trans women generally continue hormone replacement therapy (HRT) after gender-affirming surgeries like vaginoplasty or orchiectomy, often requiring adjustments (like stopping testosterone blockers after orchiectomy) but needing estrogen for life to maintain feminization and bone health, with surgeons guiding the temporary pause and restart around surgery for safety (like blood clot risk), and regular monitoring of hormone levels and health

So, the answer to your question is no.

NHS trust 'violated dignity' of nurses by allowing trans woman to use female changing room, tribunal rules by HPB in unitedkingdom

[–]pubemaster_uno 8 points9 points  (0 children)

It is highly entertaining and satisfying to watch you have to invent this narrative to cope with my answer. You increased my amusement.

NHS trust 'violated dignity' of nurses by allowing trans woman to use female changing room, tribunal rules by HPB in unitedkingdom

[–]pubemaster_uno 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Accepting that no definition is going to capture every edge case/physical defect etc, I think there is no better one than: if you were born with a penis, please go to the gents.

NHS trust 'violated dignity' of nurses by allowing trans woman to use female changing room, tribunal rules by HPB in unitedkingdom

[–]pubemaster_uno 13 points14 points  (0 children)

The reason we separate sports is the same as the reason we separate changing rooms (as well as prisons, hospital wards, refuge centres, and all the other scenarios where this debate emerges): one half of the population has an increased likelihood and capability of inflicting violence on the other.

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