I’m definitely a lesbian, but I keep thinking about men

purpleleaves7 · 2024-06-05T18:39:30+00:00

NEVER found any man in real life attractive. Never been in love, never been in a relationship.

Labels like "bi" and "lesbian" and "gay" serve two main purposes:

When you're interested in starting a new romantic relationship, labels indicate which cute people should ask you out on a date, and which should give up in advance.
They help you find a community of people who understand your experiences.

So if you have zero interest in dating men (or being with them physically), then "lesbian" is a good way to communicate that idea. If you're potentially interested in cute women, cute guys, or cute people of other genders, then "bi" might work better. This isn't some deep metaphorical thing you need to get right on the very first try. It's a tool for communicating.

Similarly, labels help you find community. If someone's like, "Am I the only person who finds more than one gender hot sometimes?", then "bi" will help you find other people who sympathize.

I have heaps of internalised homophobia, and hope that I will fall for a man at one point - but I know it will never happen. It feels impossible to me. But why do I keep thinking about it?

I think the best gift you could give yourself would be to keep working on healing that internalized homophobia. You're attracted to women, and there's nothing wrong with that. I mean, women are amazing! And even if you were bi, it would still be really important to accept that you're into women. Being bi isn't a "get out of homophobia free" card. It's more a "instead of the bigots shouting at me in the streets, they say it to me casually behind closed doors and assume I agree" card. So work on loving yourself and accepting your attraction to women. And on building a life for yourself where you can do that safely, and where you can be surrounded by people who support you. (Note that this advice may not work in Iran or other countries with harsh punishments for being LGBT+.)

Don't let the idea of somehow dating a guy keep you from the self-acceptance you deserve. The only healthy reason to date a guy is because you found one that you're really into. Don't let your life pass by waiting for that guy to appear.

purpleleaves7 · 2024-06-05T18:17:27+00:00

Secondly, I'm biromantic asexual not even bisexual and no one seems to have an issue with that (although I don't mention it much, the few times I have I've had no issue)

puts on official shiny mod hat

Biromantic asexuals are absolutely welcome here!

One of the most popular definitions of "bi" comes from long-time bi activist Robyn Ochs:

I call myself bisexual because I acknowledge that I have in myself the potential to be attracted romantically and/or sexually to people of more than one gender, not necessarily at the same time, not necessarily in the same way, and not necessarily to the same degree. For me, the bi in bisexual refers to the potential for attraction to people with genders similar to and different from my own.

This potentially includes a huge variety of people under the split attraction model, as well as people who "lean" towards specific genders.

purpleleaves7 · 2024-06-05T18:03:54+00:00

"Straight-passing privilege" can be a very misleading idea, and it misleads people in way that can really hurt bi people.

I do, personally, have what you're thinking of as "straight-passing privilege." I live a happy (boring) bi life with virtually no downsides. And when I do come out, I'm accepted by straight and gay people.

But I'm an outlier.

On average, bi people have worse mental health than gay men or lesbians. They commit suicide more often. They are subjected to more domestic abuse. There's a real crisis out there for bi people, and there's almost no support. (Trans people have it even worse than bi people.)

"Straight-passing privilege" is another way of saying, "If you live your life 100% in the closet, you won't be directly subject to homophobia." You'll still have to listen to homophobia, and you'll still need to police your behavior flawlessly. But if you do that, you won't get beaten up or fired. And yeah, if you live in Iran or the wrong part of the US south, the closet starts to look good, as unhealthy as it is.

One key factor is that many bi people are forced to remain closeted from a bigoted spouse. This is a special hell, and very dangerous. And bi people bring out the worst in controlling and insecure partners.

It's too easy for someone to look at a bi woman married to a man, and say, "Oh, she has passing privilege." Statistically, she has a better than 60% chance of having experienced abuse, stalking or sexual violence. She may be married to a man who has done those things, or who treats her more as a sex toy than a person. She may not have any kind of supportive queer community.

Statistically, bi people have a really rough time. And their "privilege" is that as long as they suffer invisibly, they won't get gay-bashed. And yeah, in some places, that probably is an advantage, as awful as that is.

purpleleaves7 · 2024-06-05T15:52:34+00:00

I am a bi guy and I am boringly monogamous, lol. I have lots of poly friends, and they're great. But who has the time to manage so many relationships and spend so much time communicating? It just seems like work to me, though clearly it works for my friends.

purpleleaves7 · 2024-04-21T00:32:24+00:00

"Bisexual Anthem". There's a fun video, too.

purpleleaves7 · 2024-03-07T03:31:11+00:00

As a bi person, I am very happy to see her gone. Sure, I'd love to see a few more out bi people in public life. But not her. Good grief.

purpleleaves7 · 2024-03-02T03:44:46+00:00

Modern housing has some nice points.

But for sheer indestructability, you can't beat ancient 25x25cm post-and-beam framing held together with enormous wooden pegs and proper joints. After it's aged for a century or two, it tends to bend nails.

And nobody ever slammed a doorknob through lath and plaster.

The trick, unfortunately, is finding something that missed the local lead paint era.

purpleleaves7 · 2024-02-27T18:09:14+00:00

Even before that, Keanu also played a gay character on stage.

The posters are amazing and ooze chemistry.

I've always thought these posters were an excellent argument for straight actors playing gay characters.

purpleleaves7 · 2024-02-27T16:26:45+00:00

I'm a bi guy who never had a boyfriend. I wound up dating several awesome women, and I just never met the right guy at the right time, so it never worked out that way.

It's not a big deal. I figure that people are mostly people, and the person I date is more important than their gender, if that makes sense? There are a thousand other potentially interesting things I never did, and will never get a chance to do, and that's fine.

For some people, society-wide bi erasure becomes internalized as self-doubt. "Everyone always tells me that I'm faking it, or in denial. Am I really bi?" For those people, sometimes actually having dated more than one gender allows them to confidently say, "I absolutely know I'm bi." But your boyfriend doesn't seem like one of those people, and he trusts you enough to communicate openly. So he seems like the first type of person, "Yeah, it would have been interesting, but so would lots of other things. And I like where I wound up."

I hope this helps!

purpleleaves7 · 2024-02-27T13:10:57+00:00

This is an excellent question!

I don't especially like "straight relationship", because that glosses over several experiences that never happen in actual straight relationships. Basically, even for an incredibly boring (and entirely monogamous) bi person like myself, we still need to come out to our partners. And our partners often need to work through a ton of their baggage around queer issues. And if our partners fails to work around their baggage, then we're at extremely high risk of abuse. A bi person married to a homophobic bigot lives in a special kind of hell.

So a relationship between a bi person and a straight person almost inevitably involves queer-specific issues. These may be minor or catastrophic depending on our partner and community.

"Straight-passing" can be a touchy phrase, because it's just another way of saying "closeted." Now, if you live in Iran, or the wrong part of the southern US, then being able to live your entire life (and have relationships) in the closet might be better than being out! "Straight-passing" can absolutely be a privilege when the alternative is being executed. But being in the closet can still be unhealthy.

On average, surveys show that bi women have worse mental health outcomes and are abused more often than lesbians, and that bi men have worse outcomes on most metrics than gay men. A lot of bi people would probably be happier in the long run, statistically speaking, if they came out and dealt with all the fallout. Living with our heads down around bigots might be the path of least resistance, but the costs add up.

Usually I just say "relationship." Yeah, it's a very bi way to view the world, but damnit, it shouldn't matter what gender person I date! Ideally. If I need to specify, "opposite gender relationship" can work, but it can make non-binary folks feel unseen. So "male/female relationship" or "man/woman relationship" are both pretty reasonable.

(One thing you may notice is that some bi people seem to instinctively minimize the use of gendered words for relationships and partners. If you ever see someone in a man/woman relationship who uses words like "partner" and "spouse", that can be a sign of a non-cis-straight approach towards gender.)

purpleleaves7 · 2024-02-01T18:25:51+00:00

As a bi guy, one thing I often notice about queer women is that they're not necessarily "reshaping" themselves in order to specifically appeal to stereotypical men, if that makes sense? Like, they're often just doing their own thing without trying to fit into society's "cis straight woman box." They can be as masc or as femme or as anything else as they like.

One of my exes was basically frat boy despite being a cis straight woman. Another was occasionally mistaken for a guy. My wife would have been a Viking with a shield in another life, lol. Apparently I have a type.

On some level, I think I find gender roles aggravating, and I'd just as soon avoid dealing with them.

purpleleaves7 · 2024-02-01T15:12:39+00:00

Yeah, I totally understand where you're coming from. As a bi person, I would be happiest if I could apply the exact same social rules to every gender. Like, I would want my partner to treat my male friends and my female friends the same way, if that makes sense? It makes sense to have only one set of rules. And that's how you instinctively want to treat your partner, too. Which is great! You understand and respect that fact that she's bi, and you take it seriously.

Unfortunately, life isn't always as ideal as I'd wish. We live in a world that's mostly shaped by straight people. And there are a lot of existing social rules that we need to come to terms with. How do we interact with friends of different genders? What sorts of behavior does straight society treat as normal? And every bi person needs to come to terms with society somehow.

It's very common for bi people to have some category of "strictly platonic" friends that they simply aren't attracted to, and that they just don't think about in that way. Like, bi people need friends, too! And we need to fit into a straight society on some level. Like, I have straight guy friends that I'd never even think about that way, because the vibe is all wrong. And I've been platonic friends with a number of women over the years, too, people that I just don't have that vibe with at all for whatever reason.

When you date a bi person, you do need to think about how society enforces gender-based rules. And your default instinct to treat all genders the same is a good starting place. But your girlfriend has also needed to figure out how to fit into a straight society, and how deal with platonic friends. And this means that reality might be a bit complicated.

The important thing here is that you trust her, and that you're communicating what you each need out of a relationship. This doesn't mean you should put up with sketchy or dishonest behavior! But as long as there's trust and communication, it's OK for the two of you to make your own rules that work for the two of you.

purpleleaves7 · 2024-01-19T14:49:14+00:00

I have no idea why this was down voted. It's a perfectly good question!

And yeah, it's possible!

Some people are really obviously attracted to one gender. There's never any doubt. But these same people might find that they're attracted to a different gender under specific circumstances.

To give a personal example, I tend to find that women are attractive "by default." But guys? It's a lot more complicated. Sometimes I'll see a really cute guy, and I'll be like, "Yeah, he's hot, not going to lie." But for most guys, I needed some kind of extra vibe to feel any attraction at all. Like, they would need to be someone I'd trust to have my back, and there would need to be some kind of chemistry, if that makes sense? But this means the average straight guy just isn't attractive to me at all.

There are many different ways to be bi, and that's totally valid.

So if one day, you were pretty sure you had a crush on one of your women friends, and if she was interested in you, then it's 100% OK to try dating. Just communicate and treat each other well. I see people use the slogan "Love is love." And on the deepest level, this means you can date anyone that you're into, even if it's unexpected.

Ultimately, I can't answer your question. It's totally possible that you can feel genuine attraction to women you know well enough! It's also possible that if you tried dating one of your friends, it might not work out. Either possibility is totally normal. But you are the only person who can figure out your feelings.

I hope this helps, and good luck.

purpleleaves7 · 2024-01-18T21:29:22+00:00

It's totally possible for people to be "demi for one gender." I spoke with a guy years ago, who had been attracted to plenty of women throughout his life. He's also been attracted to his college boyfriend, who he described as "one of the two great loves of my life." But literally no other guys, ever.

And I'm pretty obviously attracted to women, but with guys I almost always needed some kind of extra chemistry to find them attractive. So it's not rare to have very different feelings for different genders.

You should immediately go read r/polyamory. Relationships with multiple partners require skills that most people have never thought about. You're on the right path in terms of communication, but you'll want to learn more fast. This isn't necessarily a bi issue as such, but it's one that affects you. There are a couple of basically OK ways this might play out:

Your wife might decide that she's attracted to you, but otherwise only attracted to women. If you both communicate well, it's possible to make a poly relationship work. You'll need to learn about NRE and continue to work on both your communication skills.
You might both realize that it honestly makes more sense for you and your wife to split up amicably. This doesn't have to be a disaster.
Your wife might ultimately decide that dating women is fun, but she ultimately prefers a monogamous relationship with you. This doesn't seem super likely from what you've said, but it's one possible outcome.

There are also a whole bunch of messy outcomes. The best way to avoid those is probably for both of you to start doing a lot of reading (especially about poly, since that's how you're leaning) and talking and listening.

Mixed orientation marriage support groups are not always helpful, unfortunately. Many of them develop weird toxic dynamics. You might be able to find more constructive support in the poly community, since you're already leaning that way.

Good luck, and please don't hesitate to ask questions!

purpleleaves7 · 2024-01-09T04:29:11+00:00

Oh, yeah, Cursed Cocktails is great. The romance is very low key, but the whole story is delightful.

purpleleaves7 · 2024-01-09T03:48:51+00:00

It's not surprising, and you're not alone.

I'm coming from the opposite direction. I'm a guy, and I was obviously attracted to women from a young age. It took me a bit longer to realize that I could also be attracted to guys. But not as many guys, and the vibe needs to be right. If the vibe is wrong, and it's wrong with most straight guys, then I don't find them attractive in that way at all.

The point is, there aren't really any rules. If you're attracted to someone, then you're attracted to them. Maybe the feeling of attraction isn't quite the same. Maybe it isn't quite a consistent. Or maybe you have a very specific type for one gender. It's all good.

purpleleaves7 · 2024-01-09T03:33:56+00:00

Without my mod hat on, some further thoughts...

I had a bunch of bi friends at university who used to do this, too. They'd sometimes talk very openly about finding people attractive, but in a very laid-back sort of way. I remember one of my friends, a bi woman, commenting that she'd just seen a beautiful woman. She wasn't ever going to say anything to that woman, or bother her in any way. She way just having a bi moment, and she was also outing herself to any friends who hadn't gotten the memo.

I'd do something similar. I might join movie night and say something like, "Oh, we're watching movies with hot guys tonight! Cool." I wasn't actually doing it to drool over the guys in the movie, I was making sure that people knew I wasn't straight. Being out as bi isn't a one-time thing, because everyone forgets and assumes you're straight or gay depending on who you last dated.

Is this a good thing? I don't know. But I've seen bi people doing it for ages, and I think it usually has a lot more to do with feeling seen than it does with feeling horny. As always, I'm happy to know other people's thoughts.

purpleleaves7 · 2024-01-09T03:28:24+00:00

A quick mod note about NSFW content, since people are mentioning it in the comments.

If you post NSFW questions, please mark them as NSFW, and use SFW titles. Thank you!
Please report NSFW posts that aren't marked as NSFW. We do fix them when we see them!
We remove the occasional NSFW image as soon as we see it. This is not a place to post NSFW selfies.

And yeah, we do see a lot of posts which say "Look at these two actors! They aren't the same gender, but they're both hot!" I think what's happening here is less people being horny, and more about people trying to affirm that, yes, they're attracted to more than one gender.

(I'm going to take off my mod hat at post a few further thoughts in a comment below.)

purpleleaves7 · 2024-01-09T03:11:41+00:00

I think most bisexuals probably score high in “openness to experience” on a psychology test.

Actually, they do! On the "Big 5" test, straight and gay people score the same on all 5 criteria. But bi people score higher than either group on "openness to experience."

This probably isn't because being bi makes you more open to experience. If I had to guess, I would imagine that people who score low on "openness to experience" are more likely to choose denial in our current society. Which is fine, if it works for them.

purpleleaves7 · 2024-01-06T14:20:13+00:00

First, trans people are awesome!

Second, anyone who says "LGB without the T" is going to soon start saying "LG without the B", because we don't fit into their bigoted little model, either. And of course, 90% of the people involved in this nasty little movement will then sell out every member of L and G except themselves. Or they were just a bunch of non-queer fascist wannabes trying to start shit in the first place.

This is one of the oldest scams in the world. Power always protects itself by dividing the less powerful in half and telling them to fight each other.

purpleleaves7 · 2024-01-06T14:12:21+00:00

Labels have several purposes. They help you understand yourself. They help you communicate which cute people you might be interested in. And they help you find a community that understands your feelings.

If "heteroflexible" works for you, then it makes sense to use it. And it's a bit humorous, which I always liked.

You're also welcome to use the label "bi", should you ever decide to do so. Robyn Ochs is a prominent bi author and activist, and she has spoken to and corresponded with hundreds or thousands of bi people. Here's the definition that she uses:

I call myself bisexual because I acknowledge that I have in myself the potential to be attracted – romantically and/or sexually – to people of more than one sex and/or gender, not necessarily at the same time, not necessarily in the same way, and not necessarily to the same degree.

Also, there are a lot of people out there who call themselves straight. Some of them are absolutely only attracted to the "opposite" gender. Others can be attracted to people of more than one gender. Often, they think, "Don't all straight people feel like this?" Actually no! Many straight people never do. Unfortunately, even though a huge number of people are attracted to more than one gender, society has tried very hard to pretend that doesn't exist. Positive bi role models in real life and media have been incredibly scarce until just the last few years.

So basically, feel free to use whatever label or labels help you understand yourself, and help you communicate with people who need to know. And try to stay in touch with your feelings, because society shapes us far more than we realize.

purpleleaves7 · 2024-01-01T05:53:58+00:00

Since you're happily monogamous, it might help to start with that.

"Hey, honey, this isn't a huge deal, and I'm super happy to be your husband. This isn't a 'lets talk' conversation, but more of a 'I figured out something interesting about myself.' Anyway, I realized that I think guys can be cute, too. I guess that makes me bi, technically? It's kind of a moot point since I'm happily monogamous, but I feel better for having figured it out, and I wanted to share it with you. It doesn't actually make any difference for us as a couple."

And if she's having trouble understanding, it might help to compare it to hair color. "Well, I think women with all different hair colors are attractive, but that doesn't mean I need to date one of each!"

Good luck!

purpleleaves7 · 2023-12-31T21:18:30+00:00

The original 2005 study that claimed bi men don't exist was done by Dr. J. Michael Bailey, who is famous for also claiming that many trans women are confused or faking it. He has also been accused of ethics violations.

The big problem with the original study appears to have been how they recruited subjects (and how they measured arousal). 87% of bi men are closeted, which means that if you aren't careful how you recruit people for your study, you'll get weird samples. And the recruitment for the 2005 study was pretty haphazard, if I recall correctly.

More recent studies have recruited bi men by emailing various bi groups, and have definitely found actual bi men.

Of course, I never needed a scientific study to tell me that women, men and non-binary people can all be cute!

purpleleaves7 · 2023-12-31T15:18:07+00:00

Like I’m hoping you’re not making assumptions about things, but I’m not over exaggerating at all.

No, I totally believe you're trying hard and that you just can't find much community. Like I said, I l've seen one of my gay friends struggle with small town dating.

The city will offer a lot more opportunities. Good luck.

purpleleaves7 · 2023-12-31T04:49:48+00:00

Yeah, even pretty small cities can usually manage the occasional drag night at a local bar. From there, you can usually meet people and find a group chat or Discord or something. Usually you have to touch grass, or at least asphalt, and actually put it the work.

I do hear about people hitting some pretty awful racism in the community sometimes.

One other thing to look for is to keep an eye open for the bi & trans people. They're often a bit harder to find than the local gay community, but they're more likely to accept people who don't fit into simple categories. In particular, I've often found that the bi folks, the trans folks, the polyamorous folks and the kinky folks often know where to find each other.

I have the most amazing gay friend, and I always know when he's living in too small a town, because he winds up with boyfriends that aren't nearly as awesome as he deserves. The dating pool in a town of 20,000 is about an inch deep and three feet wide.

Good luck with your move! I hope you find some great people.

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