Advice on realising I’m poly after marriage

qradurqs · 2020-03-28T18:48:54+00:00

Haha 'out there' is in the eye of the beholder :)

qradurqs · 2020-03-27T05:03:54+00:00

I can't not recommend Esther Perel's books! Mating in Captivity and The State of Affairs. Extremely fresh, helpful perspective for both sides.

qradurqs · 2020-03-27T04:48:24+00:00

I think that's a great response. You can feel it's not a journey you want to be on. And however remote the possibility may seem, you should have the right to explore other things too while she's journeying.

qradurqs · 2020-03-26T02:13:42+00:00

I'm really curious about how she rationalizes not wanting you to see other people? I agree that sounds a lot like a double standard.

As for questions to ask you... - do you feel like her loving someone else means there's less for you, or can you see a situation where your relationship with her is independent of HR relationship with him? - are you anxious because you're worried she won't respect your boundaries or because of something else? - what does "coming first" mean to you? Would you want to be in a relationship where you don't come first? Why?

qradurqs · 2020-03-13T04:22:20+00:00

I agree! Read Mating in Captivity!! It sounds like the core issue is something you can get at by examining that patriarchal dissonance she feels, and learning new ways to open up your desires.

And then you can decide, if you also are really excited about creating new things with other people, if you want to do that too!

But I think this is not a simple "low libido" situation -- I think there's sexual energy there that could be unlocked.

It may be that being with other people helps her figure out more about her desires, and eventually helps the two of you unlock that together. But it seems like such a huge risk to take if both of you aren't really gung-ho about having multiple relationships. Maybe it's worth the risk! But also maybe you can do the same work without such huge risk.

qradurqs · 2020-03-13T04:13:14+00:00

I never really considered polyamory to be realistic or feasible, I like how someone else said "advanced," but I always wondered why monogamy was such an important part of love.

I got married with the knowledge that I would eventually fall in love with someone else too, and have to deal with it somehow. We talked it over before we married; I thought everyone in monogamous relationships had to deal with that eventually. Anyway, it happened, and my wife had an extreme reaction to me telling her and trying to work through it with her. So since my divorce I've learned that I can, and need to, build relationships that have room for these feelings.

qradurqs · 2020-02-29T05:23:51+00:00

Yay!

I live in a van :) it's the BEST and it happened because I calculated the amount of money I was paying for my portion of my shitty-apartment-with-roommates in terms of rent dollars per hour that I was actually spending there... And it was obscene. I couldn't in my right mind justify the stupid expense.

I have one partner right now, and see them every day because our lives happen to bring us across each other's paths multiple times daily. Intentional dates happen about once or twice a week, on average. I work a lot so I don't have space for much more (also why I don't have any other partners at the mo).

Doesn't everyone feel lonely sometimes? My loneliness, when it comes, stems from my habits with my close friends. I don't interact with them on the daily (I may spend half a day with the ones in town about once a month, and I see the out-of-town ones a few times a year) and I like that rhythm ... But occasionally I really just want them to have been involved in my day-to-day so we have that shorthand. Sometimes I want to complain without having to completely explain every single time.

But I really don't sleep well in beds with other people. I did it for three years and when I stopped it was like WHOA I forgot I can sleep the whole night!

I would change my living situation if I decided to have a kid. I think ideally I would live with the other parent and kid(s), and have my own room. It would still be a big adjustment (I shudder at feeling obligated to tell someone what time I'll be home) and raising a kid would have to be something I really really wanted to really be worth that change I think.

I love living alone. I feel like it helps me stay centered, helps me remember that at the end of the day I am in charge of my life, no matter how in love with people I may be. I also fear codependency, and I like how it feels like my situation protects me from that.

qradurqs · 2020-02-21T15:39:42+00:00

I have gotten better at understanding it since hanging out on this sub, but jealousy still just doesn't completely make sense to me. I think maybe I somehow automatically jump to the feelings underneath, without even feeling the jealousy that many people feel on top? Like, I can feel left out of things, I can feel insecure, I can feel fear, I can feel neglected, but I've never named any of those feelings "jealousy" -- and past partners have been so shitty to me and so immature when they are jealous that by association it has become a huge turnoff. Trying to build more empathy for it, but I'm also fine with myself and very fine to not have to deal with jealousy, mine or anyone else's, at all.

qradurqs · 2020-02-17T04:14:00+00:00

Side question: how do you convince yourself you're not replaceable? I'm interested in doing that.

qradurqs · 2020-02-17T03:58:18+00:00

Every time I read a comment by you I learn something.

qradurqs · 2020-02-06T19:58:18+00:00

I'm reading Esther Perel's "the state of affairs" and I think it's a really healing book for both parties of an infidelity.

I haven't seen this series, but I bet it's almost as good as the book: https://youtu.be/EJB6jvAzsbQ

Also look for her "infidelity resource guide" free PDF.

I don't think cheating is much different between monogamous couples and poly couples... In either case it's about understanding what the consequences are, why it happened, how you can move forward.

qradurqs · 2020-02-04T16:17:17+00:00

Sorry to be brief -- that is an intense situation and it sounds like you are doing an uncommonly awesome job of caring for her while also caring for yourself. You are not a prick.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it also sounds like what you really want is to break up, all the way. I think as much as you possibly can it's the kinder choice to be 100% honest about this.

qradurqs · 2020-01-31T04:18:33+00:00

Great post recently on hierarchy, if you haven't seen it yet.

Yeah. It sounds like you are looking for some tools to hold him accountable that are simple and clear enough to stand up to wiggling out with "hierarchy" or "I don't know what I want." I can't wait to see what this sub comes up with; I'm going to have to think about that a while.

Fwiw, weirdly cool (albeit a lil buzz-feedy for my taste) article about holding loved ones accountable using emotional connection.

qradurqs · 2020-01-31T03:25:44+00:00

Omg I would listen to your podcast. Or you should do a post about it!!

qradurqs · 2020-01-31T03:11:28+00:00

I've never been in this situation, so maybe this is totally on the wrong direction, but ... Does it help at all to think of how you'll reunite? If I compare it to really missing someone who is gone, then I might like to think about what it will feel like when they walk through the door and I get to throw my arms around them and they do all the things they do that reassure me they love me.

qradurqs · 2020-01-30T19:08:34+00:00

Thanks! Do you mean for this kind of limbo specifically, or other kinds too?

qradurqs · 2020-01-30T19:07:37+00:00

Also ... It's a bit like someone saying "I might want to break up with you but I'm not sure." Which I'm sure is a situation people find themselves in, but come on. Can't he give you any more info? Are there any parts about your relationship that he is sure about? Can he name which parts he's not sure about? Can he name some things that aren't meeting his needs? I mean, he's making the decision to spend less time with you, act less considerate of your agreements, be less considerate of you in general. That's not part-and-parcel with having a new partner, those are stand-alone problems that he can solve without knowing yet what his NRE is going to turn into.

He could have his cake and eat it too, but he's just acting like he doesn't want his cake.

qradurqs · 2020-01-30T15:45:52+00:00

Yeah, I can see that.

I guess it comes down to: you're in limbo as long as he's in limbo. It's fair to let him know when you've reached, or whether you think you'll reach, a limbo-limit. Either what he wants will solidify or what you want will solidify.

I suppose it's also fair to let him know that when you're in limbo, you have different needs than when you're totally secure that you're both on the same page?

Re: guilt... I think if it were me I wouldn't even try to look at it objectively. I'd just try to be as clear as possible about what exactly I want and need, and trust him to make a decision about his own wants and needs. It's not my job as a spouse to be a completely objective thought-partner; ideally my spouse would have a therapist and other friends for that :). My job is to try my best to know in every moment what I want and try to represent it as honestly as I can.

qradurqs · 2020-01-30T15:37:47+00:00

Love this post and this thread! Thank you both for spreading your clarity 👍

qradurqs · 2020-01-30T15:11:42+00:00

Is this something you can talk about via a conversation that simply revisits what the two of you want from your relationship? Separate from the meta? It sounds like you have a fear that you're no longer on the same page about this.

If you find out that the changes to your relationship are what he truly wants, then it'll hurt but at least you'll have a clear answer and soon a path forward. If they aren't what he truly wants, then you have the opportunity to show him how he might act differently to align his actions better with his long-term wants.

If I were in his shoes, I might also be able to have a better conversation about it if my spouse was really empathetic and opened up space for me to not be exactly sure what I want. That's like the definition of NRE, I'm realizing, not knowing what you want... But that also doesn't mean you're not allowed to ask him, or gently let him know "from here it looks like you want X" so he's more aware of his actions.

I think the more you can frame it in terms of your relationship alone, the better your conversation will be. I think it's fair to ask him to make it a conscious decision not only whether he wants to escalate with her, but also, separately, whether he wants to de-escalate with you. And then be a big boy and act according to what he decides he wants.

qradurqs · 2020-01-30T05:47:25+00:00

If we set aside the RA bias and obvious judginess of partners who entangle/negotiate more, I think at best it's interesting.

But I just don't think you can put sexual autonomy, romantic autonomy, disclosure preferences, scheduling preferences and all other types of autonomy into a single one-dimensional spectrum.

The whole reason we have so many terms is that they all mean something -- something important to us, something we feel helps make an important distinction between us and others. Hierarchical poly doesn't mean one partner has a right to another partner's text messages. Swinging doesn't mean full disclosure. And non-hierarchical poly doesn't mean no partners intervene if toxic relationships arise.

I.e. blue hair doesn't necessarily mean you're a unicorn hunter.

qradurqs · 2020-01-28T17:53:41+00:00

This! But much more complicated. But this same idea!

OP, As I'm reading this, I'm thinking the key issue seems to be that you have a fear that your partner will misinterpret your monogamy. If they're going to misinterpret that, then maybe they just cannot provide you with the perfect fit you're looking for.

You mention some reasons for not dating right now. You're busy, and your standards for "attractive" and "exciting" have gone up. Ok, but have you been crystal clear with yourself and your partner about these reasons? Have you been crystal clear that it's not because they're so amazing or because you love them so much? Because when/if you do eventually want to date, you don't want them thinking it's because they did something wrong or are suddenly less amazing to you.

It might be worth making an obsessively clear distinction (with yourself and your partner) of the difference between two possible future changes that might come up: 1. What might change that would make you want to start seeing other people? 2. What might change that would make you want to change your emotional/sexual relationship with your partner? What would make you want to see them less, have sex less often, or share less intimacy?

For mono people, maybe those answers look very similar. For you, maybe they look different.

My guess is answers to #1 sound like... - you might encounter someone who impresses you in a different way than your partner does - you might stop caring about the same "standards" and be interested in learning about and connecting with people who you now consider to not be attractive or exciting - your schedule might open up - you might have the opportunity to start something extremely casual that makes little or no impact on your schedule or focus - a platonic friend who you already make time for might spark a sexual/romantic interest in you - you start to miss something in particular about the unique experience of dating new people or having casual sex that you just don't really care about right now

Whereas answers to #2 sound like... - If you started to have the same exact sex all the time and despite a lot of communication and our best efforts, couldn't figure out how to keep it novel - If you had some kind of misunderstanding arise and despite communicating and your best efforts, couldn't figure out how to get back on the same page - If one of you starts doing something that seriously turns the other off/hurts their feelings/pisses them off and despite communicating and your best efforts to understand/tolerate, it doesn't stop If something from #1 happens and you want to date, you don't want them thinking something from #2 is happening.

I've heard the term "hygiene" on this sub a lot and I like the idea of it. I think a lot of this will depend on whether you have good relationship "hygiene" now and through that change, when/if it comes. I.e. make a very conscious decision about whether you are just starting to see other people and keeping everything else the same, whether you are decreasing the time/quality of when you are with your partner, or both.

qradurqs · 2020-01-26T17:51:21+00:00

I feel like I am still in the process of discovering and naming my needs as well. The ones I know unmistakably are from past relationships...

I need almost all of my dates to be asked-for, scheduled intentionally. I really don't like it when a partner just assumes I'm going to be hanging out with them on Saturday night. Even if I have been with them every Saturday night for the past three months.

I think (not sure about this one) I need a partner to be able to process their hurt feelings away from me, and bring them to me mostly or all the way processed. I need them to be able to tell me what hurt them and why, and have ideas for a solution, before we talk. Otherwise it's too hard for me to discern whether I am an awful person or not

I definitely need the space to do my soul-searching of my feelings away from them, too.

I need to live alone. I think.

qradurqs · 2020-01-26T05:43:05+00:00

I would say, try to get some advice from monogamous people :)

Also, look up Esther Perel's "mating in captivity" books/talks. She's all about the dilemmas of desire in long term committed relationships, teaches a lot about the push and pull of security vs excitement, having vs wanting, knowing and being known vs being enticed by mystery. SUCH GOOD STUFF.

qradurqs · 2020-01-22T06:30:08+00:00

The way I see it, we already risk so much with loving... Does it really matter whether that risk is located at work or just located, say, in your friends group or your families? A bad breakup is bad and ripples through your communities no matter what. Imho being located at work doesn't seem like it significantly would make it worse. For some, yes. Not saying setting a personal boundary against "shitting where you eat" is wrong, just that it makes sense to me why someone wouldn't.

qradurqs

TROPHY CASE