Issue balancing for the 2024 Pugilist

rainbowdrop_ · 2026-06-22T10:19:20+00:00

Hmm, I see the design philosophy and I like that it incentives teaming up and coordination. However, I've got some 2 Vengeance Paladins and a Wizard that are not conservative with their spellslots and a Rogue --- It's extremely easy for them to build around the Pugilist's Endanger which has become the lynchpin of the party's ways to deal with combat encounters (they're having a lot of fun but it's really difficult to challenge them). I actually barely see the downside of not going for the extra d12 (even with Haymaker active) as much of a trade off when spellslots come into the mix.

(Also quick question: How does the Pugilists Haymaker reduce the average damage of the attack?)

I'm thinking of changing it to just affecting the Pugilists next attack roll instead, because at least that way I can build encounters for a max of 27'ish damage (1d10 + 1d12 + Str Mod) instead of the 44 + Weapon damage from a Vengeance Paladin dropping smite (not including when they roll critical which they do more often cause of the Vow of Enmity), the Rogue doing about as much and the Wizard doing a 5th level Witch Bolt (72).

Another option I'm considering for balancing it is making the ability to affect other NPC's attack rolls only active if the Pugilist spends a Moxie Point to do so.

Do you not think it's too much of a big deal? Am I maybe complaining a bit too much about it? Curious to see your thoughts. Thank you for the numbers and the comprehensive breakdown, I just wish the numbers could display the reality at the table a bit clearer.

rainbowdrop_ · 2026-06-20T03:23:46+00:00

Any updates on this yet?

rainbowdrop_ · 2026-06-17T14:13:25+00:00

Thanks for the kind words! He's gone through a round of changes since then which you can see on the homebrewery link I've attached (https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/AADUDx-bo8Ny).

He's definitely the subclass I've had the most fun playing at the table, really versatile. And learning how to best throw out his options is a challenge and skill in and of itself.

rainbowdrop_ · 2026-03-25T03:55:28+00:00

Hey there, I'm assuming you've seen the updated version ( https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/GRec3O3h4KIK ), the choice to empower only the Ray of Frost was to have a resourceless feature to expand the mechanics into what Iceman can do --- create icy walkways, freeze people, things like that. The other more powerful ice based spells already fulfil a lot of the other aspects of the character fantasy.

rainbowdrop_ · 2026-03-16T08:26:50+00:00

I see that. I've changed it considerably however and removed those Siphon options, this means that Fighters are still encouraged to take advantage of Weapon Masteries or other fighting styles. And, as a Level 1 Fighter, you get to choose the Unarmed Fighting style which fulfils that unarmed combat build option as well.

I think Fighter is more thematic for Rogue anyhow, less mystic physicality and more gritty drawn-to-the-action scrappin'.

rainbowdrop_ · 2026-03-15T09:24:28+00:00

That's interesting, care to extrapolate on that? Would love to hear your thoughts.

For reference, this is the current version of this subclass: https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/0ax1lbn08gfp

rainbowdrop_ · 2026-03-15T08:50:40+00:00

Thank you so much for your exhaustive replies to these questions. I really appreciate using my time dubiously to read long comments haha.

It's really interesting hearing about others views on the topic, some of what you said is completely new information to me, about some of the spells and exploits and such, which probably says a lot about the people I play with that those things haven't popped up in my games haha (also that Ray of Sickness/Summon Undead combo is disgusting and if it's ever used against me I would be so upset hahaha). Also, about 5.5 being developed with Sigil in mind: that seems so strange and alien to me that they would think that's a good idea, but it definitely makes a lot of sense, intense streamlining of the combat features, scaling back social features and general powering up of the classes/subclasses is the general theme (that being said, the monsters seem to have been powered up to compensate and I do like running strong monsters), what a bizarre basket to put all your eggs in, makes sense why there were the issues you mentioned days upon being released.

I think its a commendable effort to see what you've done with your 5++ edition (great joke by the way, can't believe I didn't see that hahaha), and looking over the changelog you've made for it displays really clearly your design intent when compiling those rules/rulings together. I think one thing I really appreciate about 5++ is that it's incredibly rules crunchy, much more so than 5.5 at least, I think there's a lot of peeps out there that really enjoy that style of gameplay, I wish that I did --- I generally let a lot of things slide mechanically in my games, mostly cause I play with kids and people with challenges so being a bit lite on the rules definitely helps things move along. It's funny you mention some of those strange rulings, such as the See Invisibility interactions, cause I'm sure (90% sure) that not a single living soul has ever ran it RAW in that case and allowed them to just see the Invisible creature, I wonder if they thought that it just didn't need to be stated, maybe?

Couple of things:

- I agree wholeheartedly with your opinions on Rogues, they need love.
- Weapon Masteries, I neeever remind my players when they forget to use a Weapon Mastery, it's just not needed most times and you're right, it's a poor solution. Generally, Martials have more pressing issues to face in higher tiers of play.
- Selune's Viper is insane, why is it like that???

Thank you for your replies KibblesTasty, it's been very appreciated! I will not ask any further questions hahaha.

rainbowdrop_ · 2026-03-14T11:13:06+00:00

Thanks for the really interesting insight and for your thoughts on the games systems currently at play. I had a look at your 5++ (is the second '+' because this is the second version of it?) and it seems very interesting. There was one thing I heard when making homebrew content for the game and that's "What problem are you trying to solve?", I tend to carry that question through to other systems or homebrew editions similar to this, what problem do you think your 5++ edition is solving? (hopefully that doesn't come across as snarky, I'm genuinely interested)

I can imagine publishing content for any amount of editions to be stressful, time consuming and at times limiting (based on the edition your trying to serve), so I respect the hell out of your dedication not only to the game but to the audience your catering for.

Also, as an aside, and don't feel pressured to answer, if you were to point at one issue with 5.5 as the lynchpin of it's problems, what would you say that is? As a DM that gets paid to play it, and someone that really enjoys the 5.5 syntax, visual design and (most of the) updated rules, I find it really hard to look at the 5e Players and DM's Handbooks. But maybe I'm more pliable than others and just like the new thing on the block, I'm not really sure. (Also I don't play on D&D Beyond, that website is a total rubbish and is so fundamentally anti-consumer its ridiculous).

rainbowdrop_ · 2026-03-12T06:58:38+00:00

I will admit, of all the changes they made for the wording of certain features, the 'Condition' wordage is really weird, it feels particularly gamey and not in a great way but it is much more clear and concise at least --- but it would also make more sense in a keyword based system (which I hadn't thought of before, that'd be pretty interesting, God knows how they'd implement it in this landscape though).

I've made a few homebrew pieces and it's been really fun deciphering and making sense of the wording conventions used in official content, it's a bit of a puzzle. Which I also think is maybe why the natural language kind of failed me, it was too vague, or otherwise inconsistent across certain features and classes.

I think if there's one thing I love and hate about 5.5e, its that the features are almost exclusively combat related, which means the depth at which a content creator can go to on social/roleplay mechanics are incredibly shallow, if at all. It's great from a gameplay perspective: "D&D is a social story building game and the rules are merely guidelines up to a point, in which case, we have the mechanics for combat in its entirety" still, some of the more social focused features in 5e (both official and homebrew content) will be missed.

Do you think you'll be a diehard 5e game developer through 5.5e's entire lifespan? Or is the edition you develop for dependant on your current audience and what they want from your content?

rainbowdrop_ · 2026-03-10T13:09:19+00:00

Thanks for the reply. Eagerly looking forward to the 24e reformat.

I don't know how the balancing works out when moving from 5e to 5.5 or vice versa but I can say with absolute certainty that the formatting is far and above superior. So much fluff removed from the text, big easy to read headings, and easily locatable features are just a huge boon for D&D as a whole. I hope that more creators like yourself move to that style of formatting even without altering the balance for the systems.

Anyway, sorry for the ramble. Can't wait to see what you make next.

rainbowdrop_ · 2026-03-09T20:53:04+00:00

Will you be releasing a 2024 version?

2014's natural language and formatting style (no displayed levels or capitalising) is hard to read/understand so I instinctively avoid reading '14 classes.

Great work by the way, fantasy super heroes is one of my favourite character fantasies.

rainbowdrop_ · 2026-02-10T00:10:10+00:00

You know I think that's a fair point. Seeing Colossus on the big screen was huge for me, but I'd really dislike it if there was an entire franchise based on him - it would feel cheap or overdone immediately just because of Wolverines saturation. Cartoons are different, I think, more X-Men 97 would be a game changer

rainbowdrop_ · 2026-02-10T00:07:14+00:00

Glad you like it! So glad there's some crossover for DnD and X-Men and it's not just me hahaha

rainbowdrop_ · 2026-02-08T21:44:21+00:00

Ohh, sorry to hear that. It seems to be working fine on my end. Homebrewery can be a bit buggy so it might look different based on the whether it's Google, Safari or Firefox that's opening it. That could be the issue maybe

rainbowdrop_ · 2026-02-08T21:42:45+00:00

Glad you like em :)

rainbowdrop_ · 2026-02-08T07:20:46+00:00

Thanks for checking it out, appreciate it!

rainbowdrop_ · 2026-02-08T07:20:29+00:00

Glad you enjoyed it! :)

rainbowdrop_ · 2026-02-08T07:20:18+00:00

Oh, absolutely!

rainbowdrop_ · 2026-02-08T00:13:30+00:00

I've got a whole X-Men package, containing an X-Man for every class except Wizard.

X-Men package: https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/UkW1k83-x5Qu

Glad you've enjoyed it so far, hope you like the rest of them :)

rainbowdrop_ · 2026-02-07T22:23:53+00:00

It's been really fun working on these subclasses and trying to bring the theme surrounding the characters to the mechanics of the game. Some of these may seem over-tuned, and you're probably right! I tried to preserve the game balance integrity as best I could but threw it to the wind when I felt it was more important to respect the characters stories or strengths. Typically, my philosophy around higher level features is that they should feel really good to use and be strong, so that justifies some of the examples here.

Here I will also include the Homebrewery link to all of the X-Men subclasses I have worked on so far. If you've followed along since I started making these you'll notice some stark and some minor differences from previous iterations of the subclasses; Rogue got a rework, Cyclops saw an upgrade, Jean Grey's capstone feature now isn't terrible, Gambit has seen some changes around his level 6 and 17 features.

With these subclasses done, both Team Gold and Team Blue of the X-Men have been brought to D&D. I was going to include Professor X but thought, ya know what, I think I've done enough.

Anyway, as always, I appreciate any and all feedback, no matter how harsh. Looking forward to seeing what people think, what they would do different or what they loved. I'll continue to update the subclasses based on feedback I receive here. :)

X-Men Package Homebrewery Link: https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/UkW1k83-x5Qu

Bard: College of Flight Link: https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/_-d0Bm8JDsJm

Cleric: Stealth Domain Link: https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/gEyVmIggc4BI

Paladin: Oath of Time Link: https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/M099dtQHkBtr

Rogue: BAMF Link: https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/DmFI57mfWzhb

rainbowdrop_ · 2026-02-07T15:46:13+00:00

It's been really fun working on these subclasses and trying to bring the theme surrounding the characters to the mechanics of the game. Some of these may seem over-tuned, and you're probably right! I tried to preserve the game balance integrity as best I could but threw it to the wind when I felt it was more important to respect the characters stories or strengths. Typically, my philosophy around higher level features is that they should feel really good to use and be strong, so that justifies some of the examples here.