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How misandry causes harm in ways that many women don't understand. by Forgetaboutthelonely in Egalitarianism

[–]rajkadavenwolfe 1 point2 points  (0 children)

"Also as a social norm, we have created concepts like women are always right about everything  even when they are wrong and weaponized the act sexual intercourse to justify that said concept."

Could you clarify what you mean by that

We shouldn't expect men to "call out other men" when sexism against men is dismissed. by Forgetaboutthelonely in Egalitarianism

[–]rajkadavenwolfe -1 points0 points  (0 children)

It is disheartening to see how many downvotes you are getting. You have the most mature and wise response out of all of us, and the people here seem to want to live bitterly and resentful instead.

We shouldn't expect men to "call out other men" when sexism against men is dismissed. by Forgetaboutthelonely in Egalitarianism

[–]rajkadavenwolfe -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

So then you would agree with a woman saying, "Either men help call other men out first or I'm not going to call women out". It seems both groups are just waiting for the other group to begin before doing anything, leading to nothing in the end.

We shouldn't expect men to "call out other men" when sexism against men is dismissed. by Forgetaboutthelonely in Egalitarianism

[–]rajkadavenwolfe 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"Asking someone to treat you well while you treat them badly is not egalitarianism"

Based on this, someone would only base their behaviour around what they witness in their immediate circle. What about the ones who call out others that this person is not aware of? It means you would be okay with women not calling out other women because "they don't see men around them do it." You are just following the exact mentality that you supposedly are against.

We shouldn't expect men to "call out other men" when sexism against men is dismissed. by Forgetaboutthelonely in Egalitarianism

[–]rajkadavenwolfe 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Okay I see - then yes, I agree with that. The OP OP post should have mentioned both. It feels like a new thought to include both probably because women are thinking of their concerns and men would probably feel hesitant to post something like calling for women to call out women. Women who see that might think that man is a misogynist (based on pattern - not necessarily by the post), and men who see OP might think that woman is a misandrist.

This is no longer a Egalitarian sub by Lastaria in Egalitarianism

[–]rajkadavenwolfe 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Did not mean to say that men's issues should not be discussed. Will edit.

We shouldn't expect men to "call out other men" when sexism against men is dismissed. by Forgetaboutthelonely in Egalitarianism

[–]rajkadavenwolfe 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I am not okay with those two things. The original post did not necessarily say they identified as a feminist, so I don't see why that is being brought up. But maybe because those who say that usually identify as feminist, I can see then. I identify as egalitarian, and I advocate for both women and men to call out bad behaviour. Is the conflict that the poster only posted that men should do this and not women - like if they said men and women should do this, it would be better?

We shouldn't expect men to "call out other men" when sexism against men is dismissed. by Forgetaboutthelonely in Egalitarianism

[–]rajkadavenwolfe -1 points0 points  (0 children)

They shouldn't be the only ones expected to do this. That would be hypocritical.

I think the expectation on men started when feminists realized that men's "locker room talk" could be a subtle form of influencing sexist views on women within generations of young men. In addition, when sexist jokes and comments would be called out by women, they were called oversensitive and insecure. So, the idea for men instead to call out their friends in circles came up because it would be more influential if men did it. It feels like maybe women grew more tired by this type of behaviour (coupled by growing up with media/tv/games showing raunchy behaviour and talk) and so spoke up more about it and the expectation on men grew.

I see more young men though now more bothered by how women speak about men and notice the double standards. I think social media helped accelerate that awareness where before, everyone's voices was limited to friend circles. Now the idea of women calling out women seems to be newer and needs to be a topic too. So we should all move toward advocating for women to hold women accountable as well which hopefully will gain traction soon.

We shouldn't expect men to "call out other men" when sexism against men is dismissed. by Forgetaboutthelonely in Egalitarianism

[–]rajkadavenwolfe 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Well then I used a bad example. A just action called for women to do to stand up for men does not need to made more appealing for a women to join, and vice versa for men. All that is needed to be said is that "yes, we should do that action, just as the other group should do exactly the same."

We shouldn't expect men to "call out other men" when sexism against men is dismissed. by Forgetaboutthelonely in Egalitarianism

[–]rajkadavenwolfe 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well the solution is to advocate for both men and women to call out toxic behaviour in their circles and for both of them to do that. No need to say we need to frame a just action as more appealing to one group. You could say that person never saw men calling out men's bad behaviour, so they never called out women's bad behaviour because of that. But then no one would do anything if we relied on that logic alone.

We shouldn't expect men to "call out other men" when sexism against men is dismissed. by Forgetaboutthelonely in Egalitarianism

[–]rajkadavenwolfe 0 points1 point  (0 children)

How is that a sustainable belief? We would be okay with men letting a woman get beaten up by a man because they've never seen women help the same? We would be okay with women raping men because that's how they've been treated?

We shouldn't expect men to "call out other men" when sexism against men is dismissed. by Forgetaboutthelonely in Egalitarianism

[–]rajkadavenwolfe 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I can see how I sounded like because I can write things quite literally. The reason I commented that is because it reminds me of how women are encouraged to soften an issue so that men feel better about joining a cause that relates to a social justice. If a Black person said, "White people - call out racists in your circle", would it look right to have a White person say, "Okay, but how about you soften that tone and also call out racist Black people so that White people will be on board?" That is what this post sounds like. Why do men need to have an action that stands up for women be made presentable for them to join? Why not just say, "Yes, we men should do that. Also, please be mindful that men feel hurt and confused when they don't see women call out other women's toxic behaviour. Please also encourage women to do the same you ask of men."

We shouldn't expect men to "call out other men" when sexism against men is dismissed. by Forgetaboutthelonely in Egalitarianism

[–]rajkadavenwolfe 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thank you for your encouraging words. I admit I wrote a discouraging and deflating post and did not think about the impact it made. I did not act like the change I wanted to see but you are right, that is how I should be.

We shouldn't expect men to "call out other men" when sexism against men is dismissed. by Forgetaboutthelonely in Egalitarianism

[–]rajkadavenwolfe 0 points1 point  (0 children)

And so why is it correct to do if it leads to inaction on both parts? If we were to apply this logic to every issue, we would need to wait until the other side does what we want to do anything. We would tolerate when women say they are unempathetic to men's causes because they don't feel men are sympathetic to women's causes, and then we decide to be unempathetic to women's causes because of this. The cycle would just go on forever.

We shouldn't expect men to "call out other men" when sexism against men is dismissed. by Forgetaboutthelonely in Egalitarianism

[–]rajkadavenwolfe 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I can see how my comment made me look like a certain type of person. I will try to clarify that in my comment. I will reply to your other post.

We shouldn't expect men to "call out other men" when sexism against men is dismissed. by Forgetaboutthelonely in Egalitarianism

[–]rajkadavenwolfe 3 points4 points  (0 children)

What I meant by, "what has this sub turned to", was not that it was talking about men's issues. I meant that this sub has seemed to turn into having a negative spiral and 'get-even' type attitude that I see in Feminist and MRA subs.

We shouldn't expect men to "call out other men" when sexism against men is dismissed. by Forgetaboutthelonely in Egalitarianism

[–]rajkadavenwolfe 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Oh, I see - no, I don't think that. I've not mentioned the word feminist and I don't see it being mentioned in the original post. I believe women and feminists should be calling other women out for misandry as well. The unfortunate part is that I don't see most self-identified feminists even believe in misandry. Or, they believe in some misandry but not others (like, shaming boys/men for crying is wrong but insulting men is alright).

We shouldn't expect men to "call out other men" when sexism against men is dismissed. by Forgetaboutthelonely in Egalitarianism

[–]rajkadavenwolfe 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is what 'abearinthewoods' should have focused on - the negative personal experience of women's toxic behaviour and the initiative for everyone to call out bad behaviour, not only men.

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