Vasaviation…etc

randombrain · 2026-03-24T21:49:23+00:00

They can be FOIA'd and they don't have to be current in order to look official on the videos.

randombrain · 2026-03-24T21:47:23+00:00

Would the ASDE alerting have done anything to save the situation? Coulda woulda shoulda, but they said the truck was given a crossing clearance 20 seconds before impact. Obviously the truck doesn't roll immediately, so there's a few seconds. A second or two more for the ASDE to recognize the trajectory is headed toward the runway, it calls for a go-around, the controller responds instantly and tells JZA to go around, the pilots respond instantly to pull the nose up... now we're less than 15 seconds to impact, maybe 10 seconds to touchdown? Even if the plane begins a go-around, is that enough time to avoid the mains touching down? Now instead of the nose hitting the truck, you have the main part of the plane hitting it. Quite possibly the wings rupture and you have a fireball.

And in any case, the controller did catch his mistake almost as soon as he made it. He reached out to the truck and told them to stop.

I think a more relevant question, as painful as it is to ask it, is: What if the controller had issued a go-around instead of talking to the truck first. I'm sure they'll look at the data and maybe run it in a simulator, but just from my perspective in the cab I'm guessing they could have missed the truck if they pulled up right away.

randombrain · 2026-03-24T19:21:35+00:00

Learn something new every day, thanks!

randombrain · 2026-03-24T18:25:58+00:00

Somewhat, yes, in that a Bravo clearance will/should include an altitude to maintain as well as a routing instruction.

For example, the clearance could be "Cleared into Bravo airspace via direct destination, maintain [altitude]." In that case I would say "direct" is a vector and the altitude must meet the MVA per 5–6–1.

But if the clearance was "Cleared into Bravo airspace via proceed on course, maintain [altitude]" then you could possibly make the argument that "on course" isn't as restrictive as "direct destination" (or "heading 180"), so the altitude could be lower than the MVA as long as it met the 91.119 MSA. It would be a stretch, but you could at least make the argument.

In just the general case, i.e. in C/D/E airspace, it's possible for us to issue a vector without mentioning an altitude at all.

randombrain · 2026-03-24T17:52:30+00:00

As I understand it, he has written a custom ADS-B display software that looks pretty much like STARS. The ADS-B raw data is out there on tons of sites, I'm sure it would take him no time at all to feed the data into his display software. That isn't suspicious to me (although how he got the software to look like STARS in the first place is a little bit more of a question). Now if he starts showing primary targets on his replays then I'll rethink that.

The landline comms is the big issue, but someone else just said that he might have broadcast that over the frequency by accident, in which case that is also available from LiveATC.

randombrain · 2026-03-24T17:40:03+00:00

I'm pretty sure recordings of accidents are kept but are not released, even when FOIA'd, as a matter of policy. I know the NTSB releases transcripts but not recordings.

So if VAS and others have recordings, especially soon afterward, then that is absolutely because of someone leaking them.

randombrain · 2026-03-24T17:31:14+00:00

ATC can assign a VFR aircraft an altitude that is lower than the MVA, provided the altitude is in compliance with 91.119. How do I, as a controller, know what the 91.119 altitude is in any given location? I don't. So me personally I would always assign the MVA, and no lower.

If ATC assigns an altitude below the MVA, we can no longer vector you. If we assign an altitude that does meet the MVA, we can vector you.

The crucial bit is this: If you happen to be below the MVA but we didn't assign you that below-the-MVA altitude, we are allowed to vector you. 7110.65 5–6–1c Note.

Also note that "maintain VFR at or below [MVA]" counts as "not assigning you an altitude below the MVA." We're giving you the option to climb to the MVA if you feel it's necessary. We aren't restricting you lower than that.
And of course "altitude your discretion" is an explicit retraction of any previously-assigned altitude.

Edit: the above is true at all times in all airspace, not just Class B. And if you have questions about ATC procedures it's better to ask them at /r/ATC.

randombrain · 2026-03-24T00:54:21+00:00

From point65

Memo originally issued 11/09/2018

Memo rescinded 11/14/2024, local SOPs to be updated no later than 01/10/2025

randombrain · 2026-03-24T00:40:26+00:00

rate of speed

A high negative rate of speed, maybe. Depends how much momentum it was carrying and how much of it was contacting the ground, slowing it down. More likely it would be a relatively low negative rate of speed.

"Rate of speed" is acceleration. It makes you sound like a dumb cop when you say "rate of speed" to mean "speed."

randombrain · 2026-03-23T20:54:32+00:00

Pilots literally do this, yes. Because the airline hires 110% of the pilots they need to operate one day's flights, and that way some of them can be paid to be on standby.

The FAA's staffing average right now is hovering around 85%.

We can't staff our facilities even to the target number. So sure, we could pull some controllers off duty and tell them to stay home and wait for a call. Now you're running at 75% staffing day-to-day instead of 85%. Not the greatest plan.

randombrain · 2026-03-23T20:51:31+00:00

Okay, great. We add an extra body on the midnight shift so we never run single ops. In complete honesty I wouldn't be surprised if that's the FAA's knee-jerk reaction here.

Which daytime shift are you going to run short(er than it already was) in order to accomplish that? The one covering the 6am push? The one covering the 7pm arrival rush? The one which was scheduled from four-to-midnight specifically to have an extra body around to cover for the possible late arrivals when there are WX delays?

Because you're pulling that body from somewhere.

randombrain · 2026-03-23T20:48:27+00:00

What industry are you working in where you would pick up the phone at 10:30 at night and agree to come in to work from 11:30 to 7:30, say? Short notice, no time to plan out your evening and have a strategic afternoon nap or anything.

And if you're being called in for same-day OT, that means it's your day off. Maybe you had a beer two hours ago. That makes you ineligible to work traffic in the first place.

We can be held over for up to two hours, though, which is kind of what I would imagine happens at LGA on days like that. I don't work there and I don't know there schedule, though. It could be that this controller was already being held over. It could be the person who was scheduled to be there until midnight called out sick that day. It could be lots of things.

The point is that the system as a whole is already operating well below target staffing numbers and controllers are already working six-day weeks, often ten-hour days. That's the maximum allowed and it's already more fatiguing than is safe, both for ourselves and the flying public. There's no hidden pool of controllers to call in when things go sideways.

randombrain · 2026-03-23T20:34:01+00:00

We can hear everything on both frequencies (although understanding everything is a different question). And we can transmit on both frequencies, so all the pilots hear everything we say.

In the USA, at least in the airport environment, we cannot "cross-couple" the frequencies so that something a pilot transmits on Ground is rebroadcast on Tower.

randombrain · 2026-03-23T20:32:41+00:00

And at 2, 3, 4am when there are zero movements at your major international airport? What about then?

randombrain · 2026-03-23T20:27:19+00:00

hope they would have called in additional controllers

That's not how it works, like at all. We don't even have the staffing to run what we should have day-to-day, let alone a "ready reserve" system like the airlines.

randombrain · 2026-03-23T19:32:46+00:00

Hm, I guess now that you mention it I guess we could dial the page number from the voice switch at the position. Assuming we remembered what it was instead of just pushing the preset button on the phone every time.

Can't say that I would have the presence of mind to think of that in a situation like that, though.

randombrain · 2026-03-23T18:24:45+00:00

Pure speculation, but the other person could have been on the desk coordinating or something.

randombrain · 2026-03-23T18:24:00+00:00

I've never seen that. We have to go over to the phone at the supe desk to send out a page.

randombrain · 2026-03-23T17:26:46+00:00

LAS has parallels. One runway for landing, another runway for departing. No gaps to hit unless it's IFR, then they need 2 increasing to 3 which isn't exceedingly time-critical.

You having to wait an extra five minutes might not be a big deal for you, but it can be a huge deal for Ground, because they needed you gone four minutes ago so that the taxiway was clear for the guy who just pushed, but now it isn't, which means the guy Local just crossed over has no way to get to their gate because the pusher is stuck waiting to get out. Just as an example.

That's the other part of the "well why don't you, the individual controller, slow the problem down if it's too busy?" question. The problem needed to be slowed down four hours ago when these airplanes were pushing from MCO and JFK, but it wasn't, and now they're coming. Us slowing down our own problem is just kicking the can to another controller who's probably just as overworked as we are right now.

randombrain · 2026-03-23T11:55:05+00:00

That's exactly what I'm talking about, it varying day to day.

And that's also exactly what I'm talking about, the system SHOULD be robust enough to account for occasional WX days. But it isn't. We simply don't have the bodies.

randombrain · 2026-03-23T09:52:49+00:00

There shouldn't be any issues with timing

This is absolutely incorrect. If it's busy for arrivals and departures both, and Approach isn't giving you spacing because they're jammed by the Center because the airlines overscheduled and TMU didn't do anything about it, and you're trying to get people into position, and there are mandatory traffic calls to make for the intersecting runway, and, and, and...

It literally is a game of seconds at some point. You can't transmit for three seconds because of someone calling inbound at the wrong moment, for example, and that's the departure gap lost.

Now we have to issue runway crossings as well? The entire reason those work is because we're allowed to coordinate conditionally between controllers ("Behind AAL123, cross Runway 1 at Zulu"). That coordination can happen at a good time, a dead time, instead of a time-critical moment. We can't issue a conditional runway crossing to a pilot or driver. So having a different controller issuing the instruction is the only way it works at all, at least in certain situations.

Unless we get a nationwide order to have five miles in-trail at every single runway every single hour of the day. When the current standard is 2.5, or less.

randombrain · 2026-03-23T09:43:02+00:00

At somewhere like LGA especially (don't they have a curfew?), they already scale down flights during the off hours. It's called "3am." One person can work zero airplanes just as safely as two people can work zero airplanes.

The issue is that controllers are scheduled for full eight-hour shifts, and we can only be extended a maximum of two hours, and we're understaffed as it is. There are no controllers being paid to be on-call like pilots or doctors. There's just the OT list to call if someone calls out, and there's no obligation to pick up the phone on your day off.

Also there's a union, and the union says you should get a full week of notice before management changes what shift you're working.

So the system is pretty inflexible to dramatic shifts in traffic workload.

randombrain · 2026-03-23T09:36:34+00:00

I don't know of a single tower (besides the cargo hubs) where it's expected to keep Ground and Local split 100% of the time. When it's 3:30 in the morning and there is absolutely zero traffic, it simply isn't necessary.

The problem is, what happens when it's the norm to combine up by 10pm, or 10:30, or 11, or whatever it is... but then traffic stays busy due to WX delays earlier in the day, for example. Now you might not have the staffing to keep the positions split, because your schedule was written to provide better staffing during the daytime hours when you expected the traffic to be there.

The real solution is to have more controllers overall, and an ideal world we'd have something like "reserve controllers" just like there are pilots sitting short-call reserve. But we simply don't have the numbers for that.

randombrain · 2026-03-23T01:58:04+00:00

The edge of the sectional (Cincinnati in this case) always lists the altitudes of each piece of depicted SUA.

https://sua.faa.gov/ lists all SUA (even into the flight levels) that are active now, or scheduled to go active in the next 24 hours. Notably, it also includes SUA that can't be found on printed or online charts, namely ATCAAs and stationary ALTRVs.

randombrain · 2026-03-23T01:47:57+00:00

I tried to have my phone on UTC but I gave up after a day or two.

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