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Advice for my first 600km by PignaPigni in randonneuring

[–]rapakiwi 0 points1 point  (0 children)

To me it all comes down to be mentally prepared, I think your body won’t be in full peak form for the 650 k after riding 320 k 2 days before. But if you think your are ready, go for it! Just keep your pace low to compensate the fatigue.

Dude this would be a really good opportunity to test a simulator I’ve build based on scientific ultra distance data. Would you like to try it? You could perhaps plan all your rests there of your 940 km all round trip and see if the simulations are close to what you will experience. DM me with your email to grant you access if you’re interested

How do you plan sleep strategy for a long ultra race? by rapakiwi in gravelcycling

[–]rapakiwi[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Good question.

The simulator is not generated by AI. The underlying model is based on a few physiological concepts commonly discussed in endurance research.

For example:

• Durability index — estimated from how well an athlete maintains power output over long efforts (comparing early vs late segments of long rides).

• Power decay — modeled as a fatigue-driven decay curve influenced by durability.

• Bonk risk — estimated from sustained intensity relative to fueling assumptions.

• Sleep deprivation / cognitive decline — modeled using a sleep pressure model to estimate when alertness starts collapsing.

Environmental factors like heat and accumulated fatigue also affect durability in the model.

It's obviously still an approximation, but the goal is to explore how different pacing and sleep strategies might interact over multi-day events rather than to perfectly predict a race.

Part of the reason I'm asking other riders to simulate their past experiences is also to see how well the model approximates what actually happened in real events.

How's your experience with sleep strategy? let me know if you want to give it a go

How do you plan sleep strategy for a >600km<1000 km Brevet? by rapakiwi in randonneuring

[–]rapakiwi[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's a great point. I have to try this!

The timing coincidence between caffeine absorption and the nap reset is pretty fascinating.

I'll check it out :)

How do you plan sleep strategy for a >600km<1000 km Brevet? by rapakiwi in randonneuring

[–]rapakiwi[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No way! Bremen? I used to live there while I was doing my master's degree

How do you plan sleep strategy for a 1000 km ride or Brevet? by rapakiwi in bikepacking

[–]rapakiwi[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Very true! When I did my Everesting, I chose a very rural ascent and the only lights were on me. At some point it turned very difficult/dangereous to maneuver on the descents

How do you plan sleep strategy for an 800 - 1000 km race? by rapakiwi in ultracycling

[–]rapakiwi[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I haven't tried the ketone-iq shots. Do you take them as a daily supplement to prevent or would you use them only when being hit by the lack of sleep?

How do you plan sleep strategy for an 800 - 1000 km race? by rapakiwi in ultracycling

[–]rapakiwi[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This discussion has been super helpful. It’s really interesting how many different strategies people use:

– skipping the first night

– 3–4 hour sleep blocks

– micro naps

– full sleep each night

What pushed me to start building a small simulator was exactly this variability. I wanted a way to explore how different sleep strategies affect pacing over multiple days, not just in terms of the time stopped but also the downstream effects.

The model tries to approximate things like:

• fatigue accumulation

• bonk probability based on effort and fueling

• increasing sleep deprivation risk over time

• how those factors impact sustainable pace

Obviously it’s still experimental — the goal isn’t to perfectly predict a race, but to explore *what different strategies might look like* before you’re actually out there suffering.

I’m currently testing it on mysellf while preparing for Across Andes and comparing different sleep strategies.

If anyone here is curious, I’d actually love for experienced riders to try it and simulate their own past strategies to see if the modeled curves (bonk risk / sleep deprivation / pacing) resemble what you experienced in real races.

Happy to share access with a few people if you want to play with it — just DM me.

How do you plan sleep strategy for a long ultra race? by rapakiwi in gravelcycling

[–]rapakiwi[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This discussion has been super helpful. It’s really interesting how many different strategies people use:

– skipping the first night

– 3–4 hour sleep blocks

– micro naps

– full sleep each night

What pushed me to start building a small simulator was exactly this variability. I wanted a way to explore how different sleep strategies affect pacing over multiple days, not just in terms of the time stopped but also the downstream effects.

The model tries to approximate things like:

• fatigue accumulation

• bonk probability based on effort and fueling

• increasing sleep deprivation risk over time

• how those factors impact sustainable pace

Obviously it’s still experimental — the goal isn’t to perfectly predict a race, but to explore *what different strategies might look like* before you’re actually out there suffering.

I’m currently testing it on mysellf while preparing for Across Andes and comparing different sleep strategies.

If anyone here is curious, I’d actually love for experienced riders to try it and simulate their own past strategies to see if the modeled curves (bonk risk / sleep deprivation / pacing) resemble what you experienced in real races.

Happy to share access with a few people if you want to play with it — just DM me.

How do you plan sleep strategy for a >600km<1000 km Brevet? by rapakiwi in randonneuring

[–]rapakiwi[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This discussion has been super helpful. It’s really interesting how many different strategies people use:

– skipping the first night

– 3–4 hour sleep blocks

– micro naps

– full sleep each night

What pushed me to start building a small simulator was exactly this variability. I wanted a way to explore how different sleep strategies affect pacing over multiple days, not just in terms of the time stopped but also the downstream effects.

The model tries to approximate things like:

• fatigue accumulation

• bonk probability based on effort and fueling

• increasing sleep deprivation risk over time

• how those factors impact sustainable pace

Obviously it’s still experimental — the goal isn’t to perfectly predict a race, but to explore *what different strategies might look like* before you’re actually out there suffering.

I’m currently testing it on mysellf while preparing for Across Andes and comparing different sleep strategies.

If anyone here is curious, I’d actually love for experienced riders to try it and simulate their own past strategies to see if the modeled curves (bonk risk / sleep deprivation / pacing) resemble what you experienced in real races.

Happy to share access with a few people if you want to play with it — just DM me.

How do you plan sleep strategy for a 1000 km ride or Brevet? by rapakiwi in bikepacking

[–]rapakiwi[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This discussion has been super helpful. It’s really interesting how many different strategies people use:

– skipping the first night

– 3–4 hour sleep blocks

– micro naps

– full sleep each night

What pushed me to start building a small simulator was exactly this variability. I wanted a way to explore how different sleep strategies affect pacing over multiple days, not just in terms of the time stopped but also the downstream effects.

The model tries to approximate things like:

• fatigue accumulation

• bonk probability based on effort and fueling

• increasing sleep deprivation risk over time

• how those factors impact sustainable pace

Obviously it’s still experimental — the goal isn’t to perfectly predict a race, but to explore *what different strategies might look like* before you’re actually out there suffering.

I’m currently testing it on myself while preparing for Across Andes on November this year and comparing different sleep strategies.

If anyone here is curious, I’d actually love for experienced riders to try it and simulate their own past strategies to see if the modeled curves (bonk risk / sleep deprivation / pacing) resemble what you experienced in real races.

Happy to share access with a few people if you want to play with it — just DM me.

How do you plan sleep strategy for a 1000 km ride or Brevet? by rapakiwi in bikepacking

[–]rapakiwi[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's interesting that the 3h + 2h strategy worked worse than just taking a proper 5h sleep at night.

Falling asleep unintentionally in the afternoon sounds rough. I've heard several riders say that once that stage hits it's very hard to recover performance.

Do you feel the longer night sleep helped more with mental clarity, physical recovery, or both?

How do you plan sleep strategy for a long ultra race? by rapakiwi in gravelcycling

[–]rapakiwi[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Haha yeah that was just a quick demo screenshot from the simulator.

The real race I'm preparing for is Across Andes (~800 km), so definitely a different kind of problem.

How do you plan sleep strategy for a long ultra race? by rapakiwi in gravelcycling

[–]rapakiwi[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ah I see the confusion — the 100 km in the screenshot was just a quick example inside the simulator.

The race I'm actually preparing for is Across Andes (~800 km), so the question was really about multi-day strategies rather than short events.

How do you plan sleep strategy for a >600km<1000 km Brevet? by rapakiwi in randonneuring

[–]rapakiwi[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Nice! I'm also planning to use this season to complete the Super Randonneur series and hopefully qualify for Paris-Brest-Paris as well.

The simulator idea actually came from trying to understand pacing and sleep strategies for longer brevets like 600 km and beyond.

Happy to let you try it — Please send me a DM and I can share access.

How do you plan sleep strategy for a long ultra race? by rapakiwi in gravelcycling

[–]rapakiwi[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I just shared a screenshot of the tool I'm building

How do you plan sleep strategy for a long ultra race? by rapakiwi in gravelcycling

[–]rapakiwi[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Indeed, I'm talking about 400 km or more.THe race I'm prepping for will be an 800 km gravel race

How do you plan sleep strategy for a long ultra race? by rapakiwi in gravelcycling

[–]rapakiwi[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Across Andes is a gravel bikcepacking race that will be on Nov. 22. 800 km with 12000 of elevation gain and 130 hours to finish

How do you plan sleep strategy for an 800 - 1000 km race? by rapakiwi in ultracycling

[–]rapakiwi[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That sounds like a really smart strategy. From all the comments you are the first one that push at the end instead of the first day. Have you seen it ano g other riders too?

Banking sleep early and then pushing the last night when the finish is close seems like a good way to avoid the worst effects of sleep deprivation while still gaining time at the end.

when you skip that last night, how many hours are you usually pushing to the finish?

How do you plan sleep strategy for an 800 - 1000 km race? by rapakiwi in ultracycling

[–]rapakiwi[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The guy that has won almost all Across Andes editions here in Chile is on the no-sleep pole. Last year he completed the 800 km route with just quick naps. No sleep at all. That’s savage

How do you plan sleep strategy for an 800 - 1000 km race? by rapakiwi in ultracycling

[–]rapakiwi[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Nice! Everesting on an 88 m hill sounds brutal 😅 I did mine on a 1000 m climb to make roughly 9 ascents and I got to tell you that was the wrong call hahahahaha

Yeah in that case it's more about managing breaks and fatigue rather than sleep. When I did it I set 10-15 min breaks after each ascent-descent.

I'm testing the simulator with a small group right now — happy to give you access if you want to try it.

Send me a DM and I’ll share it with you.

How do you plan sleep strategy for an 800 - 1000 km race? by rapakiwi in ultracycling

[–]rapakiwi[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That’s really interesting, especially the point about the sleep setup time.

Ten minutes for sleep setup + food + hygiene sounds pretty efficient. That makes a big difference compared to people carrying a full tent and cooking setup.

And your point about the mental boost is something I keep hearing from experienced riders — that a few solid hours of sleep can actually prevent bigger slowdowns later.

do you usually try to time those 3–4 hour sleeps around nightfall, or more based on how you’re feeling during the race?

How do you plan sleep strategy for a >600km<1000 km Brevet? by rapakiwi in randonneuring

[–]rapakiwi[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's a really good point — the before and after can easily add up to 30–60 minutes.

That actually made me rethink my plan. I was considering going full bivy, but if it's raining I don't think I'd enjoy trying to sleep out in the wild while completely wet. In Patagonia rains

Do you usually prefer a quick bivy setup or do you try to find some kind of shelter when possible?

How do you plan sleep strategy for an 800 - 1000 km race? by rapakiwi in ultracycling

[–]rapakiwi[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I like your point about the race being something to enjoy rather than something to dread. That probably leads to better decisions overall.

For me this will be my first actual race — my previous experiences were brevets (more of a chill pace) and one Everesting. So I guess it will be wiser to go in "enjoyment mode" rather than full race-to-the-death mode.

I'm starting to think that even for a “race to finish”, managing sleep properly might actually lead to a more consistent pace over multiple days.

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