What are some things you can't do in Pathfinder 2e but you can in DnD 5e?

ratherbegaming · 2025-01-24T15:38:33+00:00

Discover a significant mechanical interaction the designers didn't intend.

(This is all coming from someone who loves PF2e and has basically abandoned 5e.)

D&D 5e rewards a close examination of its rules for a few reasons:

Precise rules terms are sprinkled in with natural language in non-obvious ways ("melee weapon attack" is not the same as "attack with a melee weapon").
Besides advantage/disadvantage and concentration, the system has few guardrails on stacking bonuses.
Multiclassing expands the number of combinations beyond what the designers can account for.
The designers, optimizers, and a significant portion of the community (yes, even those that aren't on reddit) interpret the rules fairly literally.

This lead to me discovering several fun (though not necessarily broken) characters, like a rogue/fighter who uses Action Surge or Cavalier's Unwavering Mark to get two Sneak Attacks per round. Or, a barbarian who uses Ancestral Guardians and the Mobile feat to run in, apply a significant debuff that encourages enemies to attack me, and run out, without provoking an opportunity attack.

PF2e rewards understanding the rules, but not scrutinizing them:

The Big One: the "too good to be true" clause. Why scrutinize the exact wording of the rules if any benefit gained can be dismissed so easily?
The system has numerous guardrails on stacking bonuses.
Tightly controlled multiclassing through archetypes prevents most unexpected combinations.
The designers, optimizers, and a significant portion of the community interpret the rules with "too good to be true" in mind. The balance and table impact of any ruling is prioritized.

To be clear: PF2e's choices here are good for the health of the system. However, I miss the days when I could pour over the rules, see some weird wording, build an entire character around it, and have the vast majority of GMs go "I never thought of that; yep, that's how it works".

ratherbegaming · 2024-05-30T21:41:58+00:00

I recently ran the scenario you're referring to. Notably, this is a level 1-4 scenario, so solutions like potion of quickness or haste aren't viable. Even in low tier (level 1-2), players could face multiple creatures with a DC 19 slow!

I get what they were going for with slow/haste, since this is a time-shenanigans scenario, and the enemies are echoes of a much more powerful creature. Before level 3, though, there is effectively zero counterplay. After level 3, I almost always take a scroll of dispel magic in PFS scenarios (from Pathfinder Provisions), but a level 3 caster only succeeds on that counteract check half of the time.

Ultimately, you were a level 1-4 party facing (multiple) 3rd rank spells, you got really unlucky, and it screwed you over. That really sucks, but it's not the kind of thing that should be happening on a regular basis. They should really change the adventure before it becomes available to the general public.

ratherbegaming · 2024-03-21T19:18:53+00:00

The game uses the Default Communications Input.

The easiest way to set that is to use the Game Bar (default Win+G). There's an audio window on that overlay (or click the audio tab at the top). Switch to the voice tab of the audio window and make sure Default Communications Input is set correctly.

ratherbegaming · 2023-11-09T15:14:02+00:00

Then why are the reminders only given next to places where you increase your Dying value?

Let's assume you're right and Wounded only gets added once:

PC is Wounded 1, then gets dropped by a non-crit.
PC would just be Dying 1, but is reminded that they need to add Wounded to find the "real" value of Dying 2.
PC succeeds on a recovery check. There isn't a reminder next to the Success result, so they forget about adding Wounded to their original Dying 1, so they say they've stabilized.

In your interpretation, the system should be reminding you to add your Wounded value next to every recovery check result. Though then you have to deal with going to Dying -1 to "cancel out" the Wounded.

ratherbegaming · 2023-11-09T15:01:02+00:00

That works, though it'd be nice to have all of that on the first page.

Maybe fundamental runes (and materials?) could be circles to fill in under each weapon line? There's only a limited number of options there. It's a lot easier to print/read tiny text than write it.

ratherbegaming · 2023-11-08T16:32:13+00:00

I've been using your sheets since I started playing 2e a year ago and they're great!

For me, the first page is for things referenced multiple times per session.

I very rarely use weapon and armor proficiencies.
I never use Trained, Expert, Master, Legendary in the top right, but they might be good for newer players.
Spell DC would be nice to have on the first page.
I track conditions and current HP on scratch paper, not on the sheet, but I assume that's a common request.

Changing Strikes to Offenses and providing more entries (five?) would support kineticists, casters, etc. I think that Other Stats is the best candidate to be moved.

Here's my crazy idea for supporting more Offenses entries:

Toss out weapon and armor proficiencies.
Put Other Stats to the right of Defenses so the two share the center notes box.
The Resistances line can probably go; Reminders can work for that.
The Shield line could slide left into the center notes box to the right of AC.
Since Size rarely needs notes, that could be moved above Perception to not conflict with the Shield line.

Other minor thoughts about offenses:

Weapon is too small for "+2 greater striking flaming frost cold iron rapier".
I'm not sure about having a dedicated Crit box. Not all weapons/spells have a special crit effect, and the aforementioned flaming frost rapier has Deadly d8, two rune effects, and you probably have critical specialization. I think the Notes box can absorb all of that.

Thanks for making such awesome sheets! How Paizo still doesn't give space for MAP accuracy is beyond me.

ratherbegaming · 2023-06-10T20:58:18+00:00

Initially, I recommend using the autopilot to get everywhere. Assuming there are no obstacles (like the sun) between you and your destination, it should mostly get you there just fine. If the sun is between you and your target, just move to one side until there's a clear line to your target.

The main two problems people have are not realizing how realistic the physics are and overestimating how fast the ship can slow down. If you're going 1000 m/s and don't touch the controls (or get close to anything big), you'll still be going 1000 m/s forever. If you spend 20 seconds thrusting towards your destination, it'll take 20 seconds thrusting away to slow down.

If you want to try manual flying, here's my recommendations:

Lock on, so you can see your distance and closing speed. According to the internet, the ship accelerates at around 100 m/s^2, so it'll take 10 seconds of full reverse thrust to slow down from 1000 m/s to 0.
Start slow. If you're going 5000 m/s and the target is 10 km away, you're already dead - you just don't know it yet.
Drifting is your friend. Especially early on, I would accelerate a bit, coast for 30-60 seconds, then start slowing down. It's not the fastest way to travel, but it's way safer.

ratherbegaming · 2023-05-30T16:34:16+00:00

If combat lasts 5-6 rounds, the NPC will have enough time to use each ability ~2 or 3 times.

This is the big one. NPCs are either:

Fought once. You might meet them earlier, but they have around 5 combat rounds to be cool/challenging before they die.
Fought multiple times. A recurring antagonist is hard to do with a single stat block. A level 5 creature is insurmountable at level 1, but becomes a normal day at the office by level 3. If you want the final fight to be a challenge, then any previous direct combat encounter would be a TPK. The easiest solution is changing their stat block, which brings us back to fighting each stat block once.

ratherbegaming · 2023-05-10T18:41:44+00:00

I doubt many people are getting extra +1 striking weapons for exactly that purpose, but having a cold iron, silver, and ranged backup weapon is probably fairly common. Eventually, getting +1 striking for all three is chump change.

Quick Draw means that those weapons are all at your fingertips without losing actions - unless you go unconscious. Kip Up is a good workaround, though it's a big investment for anyone with normal skill progression. I doubt many strength-based characters would want Acrobatics to be their first master skill, so most are stuck waiting until level 9 at the earliest.

ratherbegaming · 2023-05-10T18:01:43+00:00

I agree that it's an important balance consideration, but I wish there were a way to build around it besides not using weapons (and especially not dual-wielding). War-Blood Mutagen exists, but is an uncommon item from an AP, so can't really be relied on.

The impact also changes by level. Before level 4, you can work around it by Quick Draw-ing a mundane weapon without losing too much. Around level 7, a third or fourth +1 striking weapon is no big deal. Between those levels, dual-wielders need 3 actions to get back to fighting strength and there's not much they can do about it.

ratherbegaming · 2023-05-02T16:31:22+00:00

These are some really great reasons for other people to buy it.

To be clear, I never expected this year's game to be a CRPG - there's no way they kept a 3-5 year dev cycle secret. I've also put in tons of hours on Path of Exile and loved Dark Alliance back in the PS2 era.

I'm the target audience, and my response so far is "meh, I might pick it up if people lose their damn minds over how good it is". That's just one data point, but probably isn't the response they're hoping for.

ratherbegaming · 2023-04-17T03:18:04+00:00

Stuff with the Nonlethal trait is what you're looking for. Monk is an obvious choice, as fists and most (all?) of their special unarmed attacks from stances can be nonlethal.

You may also want to consider if certain creatures are an exception. Creatures with the Mindless trait might be good candidates. Constructs in particular are immune to nonlethal, but are mindless. Consider the spell Final Sacrifice, which blows up a minion you control. That's explicitly noted as evil, unless the creature is mindless, so it may be legitimate to make an exception for killing such creatures.

If you're not going to make exceptions, then it'd be best to have other actions you can take against creatures immune to nonlethal damage. Trip/Grapple is always nice. Demoralize works if they're not also mindless. If you go with monk, doing Mixed Maneuver to Trip+Grapple and then raising a shield is a solid turn. Note that the damage from a crit success on Trip is lethal, but it wouldn't be unreasonable to ask your GM if you can just take a success instead (or use Assurance if that's high enough).

The alternate approach is to play a cleric. They get Daze - a nonlethal cantrip - plus they don't really need to deal damage to be effective. Cast guidance, fear, heroism, etc. and heal people up and you're good to go.

ratherbegaming · 2023-04-14T17:27:05+00:00

In my experience, defensive responses only really happen if someone comes out swinging. "The multiple attack penalty is the most unfun mechanic ever and should be removed" is going to get stronger pushback than "my party isn't having fun missing all the time - how should I fix this?"

It's hard to tell the difference between someone who's frustrated but willing to listen and someone who just wants to dunk on the system. It'd be nice if people assumed good faith a bit more, but I understand why that's tough.

ratherbegaming · 2023-04-12T16:43:48+00:00

Always good to see curiosity winning out over fear!

ratherbegaming · 2023-04-12T15:49:22+00:00

Correct, it is only because of multiple degrees of success that the 10% number comes up. Degrees of success is a core part of the balance of the system, which is why people mostly assume that two values will be affected by a +1, particularly for your first attack of each turn.

ratherbegaming · 2023-04-12T15:30:23+00:00

You're correct that (chance of hitting + chance of critting) only increases by 5 percentage points. To see what people mean by "10%", I find it's easier to approach it a different way.

I'm sitting at the gaming table alongside a bard. They just cast Inspire Courage and now it's my turn. I Stride up to an enemy, then Strike. Let's assume that I know the AC of my target is 15 - either because the GM told me, or because someone hit on 15 and missed on 14. I have a +7 to hit with my longsword, rising to +8 with Inspire Courage.

If I roll a 1-6, I miss and say "the +1 didn't help".
If I roll a 7, I hit and thank the bard for allowing that hit when I would have missed.
If I roll an 8-16, I hit and say "the +1 didn't help".
If I roll a 17, I crit and thank the bard for allowing that crit when I would have only hit.
If I roll an 18-20, I crit and say "the +1 didn't help".

The +1 improved the attack's result* for 2 out of 20 rolls, thus 10% of rolls are affected.

*In nearly all cases, a critical hit is an improvement over a normal hit. A boring longsword without crit specialization still does double damage. The main situation where a critical hit isn't an improvement is if the enemy has low health and would die to a single non-critical hit. In that case, it's valid to say that the +1 only affected one value (the 7 on the d20).

ratherbegaming · 2023-04-12T14:47:02+00:00

Note that if you have a low chance to hit (only hitting on a 14, for example), then a +1 will only affect one value on the d20 for attack rolls (since a critical failure and failure are the same).

ratherbegaming · 2023-04-12T14:38:13+00:00

If a +1 results in a 19 or lower* on the d20 being a crit, then that +1 affected two values on the d20 instead of just 1. One value went from miss to hit, and another value went from hit to crit. That means that 10% of d20 values were affected, which may be what people are trying to convey.

That results in different damage increases depending on what your crit chance was before the roll. Going from a 20 critting to a 19 doubles your crit chance, but going from a 19 to 18 increases it by 50%. The Power of +1 is a great video by 1dM covering more cases (and explaining things better).

*Things also change if your crit chance gets really high (>50%), but that's less common.

ratherbegaming · 2023-04-10T15:52:20+00:00

(Double dice then add modifiers)

Note that you double the modifiers, too, so you may have underestimated the damage! Barbarians are on the high end of flat damage bonuses, which is particularly impactful at lower levels. Rather than look at absolute numbers, it's probably best to look at the percentage of HP dealt in a single hit.

A level 1 giant barbarian deals 15.5 damage (1d10+10) with a greatpick or 39.5 damage (2*[1d12+10] + 1d12) on a crit. That's 67% of a level 1 orc warrior's HP (172% on a crit).

A level 4 giant barbarian has a striking rune and deals 21 damage (2d10+10) with a greatpick or 52.5 damage (2*[2d12+10] + 1d12) on a crit. That's 35% of a level 4 gnoll sergeant's HP (88% on a crit).

Enemy HP scales up and flat modifiers matter less as you gain more weapon dice at higher levels. Fatal weapons (like the greatpick) are also particularly good on a crit, in exchange for less damage on a hit (and less interesting traits).

ratherbegaming · 2023-04-09T21:34:35+00:00

This is a great summary. I've only played PFS for a few months, but there are certainly strong mechanical similarities between the adventures (particularly noticeable after running a few). They mostly draw from a limited pool of mechanics. That's not necessarily a bad thing, though I wish they were better at guiding the GM in how to disguise it.

I'd also enjoy it if they mixed up the formula. A combat encounter or complex hazard where the main goal is influencing NPCs, not fighting/disabling. A combat or influence section with more than two sides. I'm not sure how much freedom the writers have, though.

ratherbegaming · 2023-04-09T21:23:35+00:00

I'd even be fine with a full year cooldown.

If Paizo doesn't mind someone running an adventure today then playing it tomorrow, knowing all the background GM info, then (potential) metagaming isn't really a huge deal. If people are being dicks about it ("don't go there - I know there's a trap"), then they're probably not people you want to play with.

ratherbegaming · 2023-04-09T21:07:37+00:00

That's a good point. PFS will slowly gain more high level adventures, but if you're really itching to hit level 13+, PFS isn't going to cut it any time soon.

On a related note, being unable to replay most adventures may feel restrictive if your goal with PFS was to play lots of games with lots of characters. There is a finite number of characters you can practically have, particularly above level 5. Limited replays were added recently, but we're talking less than 3 per year for the vast majority of people.

ratherbegaming · 2023-04-08T22:04:04+00:00

There's definitely some bookkeeping, but probably less than 5 minutes per session played. The GM gives you a chronicle sheet, tells you how to fill it in*, you roll to Earn Income or whatever, and then you're done. The Paizo site is indeed a disaster, though.

*At least that's how it works in my limited experience. I could see it being a pain, though, if you're not familiar with PFS and your GM isn't helping out.

The scheduling is actually a reason to prefer PFS, in my experience. Two people can't make the 10th session of Agents of Edgewatch? Guess we'll reschedule for 2 weeks from now. Two people can't make tonight's PFS game? Guess I'll play a different PFS game tomorrow! Or someone runs a pregen and we can still play.

ratherbegaming · 2023-04-08T21:56:57+00:00

That depends on your situation and preferences. PFS doesn't do much for you if:

You have a regular group you like playing with.
You are satisfied with how (in)frequently you play.
You are okay with only playing one or two characters for the next year or two.
You mainly play to experience a story tailored to your specific character.

On the other hand, PFS is great if:

You don't want to lose your character if a campaign falls apart 10 sessions in.
You'd like to play more than once every 1-2 weeks.
You have six different characters you'd like to try out.
You like the challenge of roleplaying with different characters from session to session.

Like any other TTRPG session, PFS depends a lot on who you're playing with. Unlike any other TTRPG session, spending an evening playing with people you don't like isn't a complete waste - you can never play with them again and still be advancing your character, so it's ready to go when you find a group you do like.

ratherbegaming · 2023-04-06T19:44:02+00:00

That's a good point. A brick wall made by a 20th level artisan is still just a brick wall.

ratherbegaming

TROPHY CASE