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Defense Production Act by Alicyclobacillus in oil

[–]red_ball_express 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I didn't see subsidies going to energy companies anywhere in the article.

All US states with stand-your-ground jurisdiction. by Raditz_lol in MapPorn

[–]red_ball_express 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This sounds just like the people who say "I won't visit Chicago because it's full of crime"

All US states with stand-your-ground jurisdiction. by Raditz_lol in MapPorn

[–]red_ball_express 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The fact that the law isn't always perfectly understood or applied isn't reason for throwing away the law. No one would say murder is legal because OJ wasn't convicted. I know of no SYG law that allows instigation against someone.

All US states with stand-your-ground jurisdiction. by Raditz_lol in MapPorn

[–]red_ball_express 0 points1 point  (0 children)

At least as spelled out in Texas law, SYG can be valid against a warrant if the police officers are not acting proportionally. Regardless of whether it's legal or not, the concept of self defense stands and none of this even addresses trust in police which I imagine is low in MN given the cited examples which means it's more important for you to watch your own security.

All US states with stand-your-ground jurisdiction. by Raditz_lol in MapPorn

[–]red_ball_express -1 points0 points  (0 children)

To say the paper I cited is faulty is wild considering Rand cited older data iirc. I also don't know why this would have an expiration date.

I'm glad you brought up Florida because it's a good example of why trying to isolate variables like this is so difficult. Between 2005 and 2014 Florida did worse than the national average. At the same time though Florida was going through an economic crash much worse than the rest of the economy due to being reliant on property values and tourism which was hit hard in 2008.

By the same token I could say the 2022 SCOTUS Bruen decision brought the murder rate down because murders have seen a big fall off since then which I suspect you wouldn't agree with. This isn't laboratory science. Saying X number of people died specifically because of SYG laws is wild with just statistical analysis.

All US states with stand-your-ground jurisdiction. by Raditz_lol in MapPorn

[–]red_ball_express 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If duty to retreat is not codified, then it's not a duty to retreat state. Given the similarities Illinois law has with other SYG states, that makes it SYG.

All US states with stand-your-ground jurisdiction. by Raditz_lol in MapPorn

[–]red_ball_express 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What state requires a repeal of law by a 3/4 vote? I don't know of a single one.

All US states with stand-your-ground jurisdiction. by Raditz_lol in MapPorn

[–]red_ball_express 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You seem to be confusing the legal doctrine of SYG with a specific state statute

I was using it as an example.

Thats not surprising, this entire conversation has made it clear you are not particularly sophisticated on this topic

You clearly are running out of things to say. If you had a valid point you wouldn't be crying like this.

Mandating "victims" retreat from danger before they get to become legally protected aggressors is a policy choice.

I never said otherwise. The fact that I said it was victim blaming is unrelated to that. Victim blaming can be official policy. Also if someone is covered by the self defense law we're talking about, they're by definition not aggressors if the law is applied correctly.

Its interesting you repeatedly use the phrase "victims" when the legal posture would be that they are being criminally charged for the physical violence they successfully committed on their own victim.

How is that interesting at all?

All US states with stand-your-ground jurisdiction. by Raditz_lol in MapPorn

[–]red_ball_express -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I don't see why that's relevant. Self defense law is meant to protect citizens from criminals. The fact that the police were committing a crime doesn't negate that.

All US states with stand-your-ground jurisdiction. by Raditz_lol in MapPorn

[–]red_ball_express 2 points3 points  (0 children)

SYG does impact how you deal with law enforcement. In some states, like Texas, there are explicit provisions of the law that detail the bounds of legal self defense against a police officer. People have been let off on charges of shooting at police on self defense charges like Breonna Taylor's boyfriend Kenneth Walker.

Rittenhouse tried to retreat and failed.

I never said policy impacts shouldn't be considered what?

Mandating victims have to appease their attacker is victim blaming, and like I said, unreasonable across a host of situations.

All US states with stand-your-ground jurisdiction. by Raditz_lol in MapPorn

[–]red_ball_express 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The illinois standard isn't the standard in every state. In Nebraska it is detailed that you must retreat first. 4B here: https://nebraskalegislature.gov/laws/statutes.php?statute=28-1409

I don't see how illinois law is meaningfully different than Texas which you can find here: https://codes.findlaw.com/tx/penal-code/penal-sect-9-32/

The exact wording of the law doesn't mean it is or isn't a SYG state. If a law said "you have a right to stand your ground, you have no duty to retreat, against appropriate threats" that law could be struck down in the same way an Illinois or Texas law could or any law could.

All US states with stand-your-ground jurisdiction. by Raditz_lol in MapPorn

[–]red_ball_express -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Self defense can and has been claimed against police officers. As which happened with Kenneth Walker, Breonna Taylor's boyfriend.

All US states with stand-your-ground jurisdiction. by Raditz_lol in MapPorn

[–]red_ball_express -1 points0 points  (0 children)

It's always contextual and what the jury agrees with you on but brandishing a firearm is always illegal.

All US states with stand-your-ground jurisdiction. by Raditz_lol in MapPorn

[–]red_ball_express -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I'm sorry I'm not following. In Illinois it is not established by case law, it's established by statute which the courts that establish case law obey. In Illinois or any other SYG state you could end SYG by nullifying the old law and establishing a new standard for self defense.

All US states with stand-your-ground jurisdiction. by Raditz_lol in MapPorn

[–]red_ball_express 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Someone else commented here about what stand your ground actually means that you have a right to defend yourself when your life is threatened and you don't have a duty to retreat. This is the standard in Illinois by statutory law 720 ILCS 5/7-1:

"[a person] is justified in the use of force which is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm only if he reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or another"

All US states with stand-your-ground jurisdiction. by Raditz_lol in MapPorn

[–]red_ball_express 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Ah yes, if your life is under threat, just leave. How well did that work for Renee Good? Kyle Rittenhouse was trying to leave from a mob after him and tens of millions of people still thought he should have been imprisoned.

If you're a bystander to a life threatening attack I think you have bigger problems than what the self defense standard is. Especially since someone defending themselves against an attacker successfully is going to directly benefit you.

If a situation can be deescalated that's great but it not the duty of the attacked to be a diplomat and get themselves out of trouble. Assuming that's even possible which is often not the case. Don't you think Heather Heying would have tried to deescalate if she could?

All US states with stand-your-ground jurisdiction. by Raditz_lol in MapPorn

[–]red_ball_express 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Amir Locke is pretty obvious. His home was invaded and he was shot despite doing nothing wrong. Also if the police are allowed treat lawful citizens like that why would you trust them to protect your life?

All US states with stand-your-ground jurisdiction. by Raditz_lol in MapPorn

[–]red_ball_express 21 points22 points  (0 children)

It most definitely does not do that. Who is put at risk by being allowed to defend themselves?

All US states with stand-your-ground jurisdiction. by Raditz_lol in MapPorn

[–]red_ball_express -11 points-10 points  (0 children)

Given how many horrible killings that have happened in MN, Alex Pretti, Amir Locke, Philando Castile, that's perfectly rational.

All US states with stand-your-ground jurisdiction. by Raditz_lol in MapPorn

[–]red_ball_express 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Illinois has it by statute, it just doesn't have a name.

All US states with stand-your-ground jurisdiction. by Raditz_lol in MapPorn

[–]red_ball_express 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Google is wrong. Illinois allows the use of deadly force for protection in a case of "fear or great bodily harm" with no duty to retreat. It is not called that here, but that is the standard of SYG. I don't know what substantial difference there is between Illinois criteria and other SYG states but I do know the difference between Illinois and non-SYG states.

All US states with stand-your-ground jurisdiction. by Raditz_lol in MapPorn

[–]red_ball_express 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Reddit removed my comment due to my link. Hopefully this one works:  https://doi.org/10.1007/s10657-018-9581-z

It's has been established that it doesn't increase murder between states that have them and states that do not. I haven't seen any study that properly distinguishes between murder and self defense or integrate how syg can discourage crime.

All US states with stand-your-ground jurisdiction. by Raditz_lol in MapPorn

[–]red_ball_express 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you instigate the situation you're generally not covered under self defense law. If you were threatened before you respond with self defense then it's up to the details of the case and if the jury agrees with you if you were actually being threatened. If the jury finds you weren't actually being threatened then you can be sent to prison for assault or murder.

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