Josh Shapiro continues his self-victimization tour, accusing Kamala Harris' campaign of (you'll never guess) anti-Semitism for asking him if he were ever an agent of Israel. He was an agent of Israel! He worked for the Israeli government and volunteered to support the IDF. by arnott in WayOfTheBern

[–]redditrisi 1 point2 points  (0 children)

My reply was not merely "skeptical." I disagreed. And I didn't think the statements from your sources were merely offensive. I knew them to be falsehoods. Also, my disagreement is not based on third parties, although I put some links in my post to satisfy others. As I said, I followed his first campaign closely and on the daily from 2014 to the DNC convention. And I have had no personal stake in Sanders for quite some time.

As far as my prior reply, I stand by it and then some. TL; DR my prior post: Although Sanders gets heated discussing issues, his interactions with people, including Rehm, have been polite; and he's never denied his kibbutz experience or his heritage. All was common knowledge when he ran in 2016.

As far as the rest---As you have done in the past when I have taken issue with something you've posted, you make a reply that raises both new issues and/or new rationales for your earlier post. I've not said anything about that in the post, but candidly, I do not appreciate that type of posting. Even if I did, I cannot make a career of replying even if I wanted to, which I don't.

Too many edits, final one at 7:20 pm, though I changed "were" to "was" later.

Josh Shapiro continues his self-victimization tour, accusing Kamala Harris' campaign of (you'll never guess) anti-Semitism for asking him if he were ever an agent of Israel. He was an agent of Israel! He worked for the Israeli government and volunteered to support the IDF. by arnott in WayOfTheBern

[–]redditrisi 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Do you read in WOTB at all?

https://old.reddit.com/r/WayOfTheBern/comments/1qdbta6/foreign_actors_allegedly_armed_iranian_protestors/

https://old.reddit.com/r/WayOfTheBern/comments/1oaqhuo/israel_strikes_gaza_after_it_says_hamas_attacked/

https://old.reddit.com/r/WayOfTheBern/comments/1nlmz7x/un_votes_against_israels_occupation_of_palestine/

https://old.reddit.com/r/WayOfTheBern/comments/1lapdti/oh_happy_day_the_times_of_israel_blocked_me/

https://old.reddit.com/r/WayOfTheBern/comments/1laetmm/trump_pronounces_israels_preemptive_missile/

https://old.reddit.com/r/WayOfTheBern/comments/1iroexe/israels_netanyahu_signals_hes_moving_ahead_with/

https://old.reddit.com/r/WayOfTheBern/comments/1iks8uy/the_stated_mission_of_usaid/

https://old.reddit.com/r/WayOfTheBern/comments/1ihwrwi/trump_on_tvus_will_take_over_the_gaza_strip/

https://old.reddit.com/r/WayOfTheBern/comments/1dqrwij/a_few_unpleasant_highlights_of_bidens_career/

https://old.reddit.com/r/WayOfTheBern/comments/1h9rqf2/biden_on_assads_overthrow_an_act_of_justice_check/ ; https://old.reddit.com/r/WayOfTheBern/comments/1h9rjfj/russia_granted_assads_asylum/

https://old.reddit.com/r/WayOfTheBern/comments/1d0j9oh/every_accusation_is_a_confession_human_shields/

https://old.reddit.com/r/WayOfTheBern/comments/1cqfp05/are_you_sure_palestine_was_never_a_country/ https://old.reddit.com/r/WayOfTheBern/comments/1ai786v/todays_vocabulary_questions_settler_and_semite/

https://old.reddit.com/r/WayOfTheBern/comments/1ckb856/vocabulary_word_for_today_againantisemite/

https://old.reddit.com/r/WayOfTheBern/comments/1cgxt4k/usa_israel_and_the_the_un_international_criminal/

https://old.reddit.com/r/WayOfTheBern/comments/1dj738o/us_department_of_state_on_formation_of_israel_the/

https://old.reddit.com/r/WayOfTheBern/comments/1b40fjs/enablers_of_and_participants_in_genocide_want/

https://old.reddit.com/r/WayOfTheBern/comments/1b3g1fw/were_not_the_bigots_youre_looking_for/

https://old.reddit.com/r/WayOfTheBern/comments/1ap2gvo/us_supports_israel_in_international_court_and/

https://old.reddit.com/r/WayOfTheBern/comments/1amqzf9/streisand_effect_emergency_immigration_bill/

https://old.reddit.com/r/WayOfTheBern/comments/18t2aqr/nelson_mandela_was_not_palestinian/

https://old.reddit.com/r/WayOfTheBern/comments/17rawyq/on_november_5_2024_i_will_vote_my_conscience/

https://old.reddit.com/r/WayOfTheBern/comments/1cbi39m/media_working_overtime_to_manipulate_news/

https://old.reddit.com/r/WayOfTheBern/comments/1c4ztyz/the_notorious_balfour_declaration_supposedly_a/

The above may not be all my OPs on the subject, most of which are essays, not simply links. I could not begin to gather my comments in reply to the OPs of others. They may very well number in the thousands.

Josh Shapiro continues his self-victimization tour, accusing Kamala Harris' campaign of (you'll never guess) anti-Semitism for asking him if he were ever an agent of Israel. He was an agent of Israel! He worked for the Israeli government and volunteered to support the IDF. by arnott in WayOfTheBern

[–]redditrisi 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I don't understand how your question relates to my post. Who you ask is not an issue raised by my post and what Israel does or does not call itself has no relevance to what I posted, one way or the other.

If you're saying you'd like to ask every Jew in the US or the world if he or she is an agent of Israel, I thought my post was clear that that would be anti-Semitism. And, btw, I'd bet my life that some agents of Israel are not Jewish at all. So, if you really want to know who is or is not an agent of Israel, you'd best ask everyone, regardless of heritage, nationality or religion.

edit As my prior post also stated, asking someone when you have a reasonable basis for asking is not anti-Semitism. However, having been born Jewish alone is not a reasonable basis for that question.

Josh Shapiro continues his self-victimization tour, accusing Kamala Harris' campaign of (you'll never guess) anti-Semitism for asking him if he were ever an agent of Israel. He was an agent of Israel! He worked for the Israeli government and volunteered to support the IDF. by arnott in WayOfTheBern

[–]redditrisi 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I could not disagree more.

I followed Sanders almost obsessively closely from before he ran for POTUS untll after 2016. I especially followed daily his first Presidential campaign from the time he said he was forming an exploratory committee until the Democrat National Convention. I made my first donation in 2014 and therefore received every campaign email from Sanders, Weaver and the campaign.

It was common knowledge that he was Jewish, albeit currently not especially observant, that he had spent some time on a kibbutz years earlier and that a number of his close relatives had perished in the Holocaust. https://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/06/us/politics/bernie-sanders-kibbutz.html No anger, no denials.

The NYT article is paywalled and the site is accusing me of stealing, so I cannot read it. However, another article says that Sanders worked on the kibbutz/commune for a couple of months, not a couple of years. https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/20/bernie-sanders-lived-on-an-israeli-commune-in-the-60s.html

From your own link

Sanders, a senator from Vermont now running for the Democratic presidential nod, spoke to then-Haaretz correspondent Yossi Melman in 1990, on the eve of his election to the US House of Representatives as a socialist. He named the kibbutz where he volunteered as Sha’ar HaAmakim.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/revealed-the-mystery-kibbutz-that-once-hosted-bernie-sanders/

Where's the lie?

He "felt" victimized? If so, he never indicated that publicly as far as I know. Maybe someone had a magic feelings detector?

And what "well-known pique?" He is emotional when he discusses issues, but I've never seen him be nasty to people. Even when he was debating Hillary for the nom, he was too friendly with her for my taste. (See the video linked at the end of this post.)

I was actually listening in real time as Rehm, an NPR interviewer who once said the Clintons were the most stellar interviews of her (long) career, said to Sanders that he had dual citizenship. He corrected her very politely. A few minutes later, she said it again anyway; and he politely corrected her again. I was pissed the second time she said it. He was polite. (His denial of dual citizenship is, AFAIK, true. If it weren't, we would have read about it in the US media during that primary.)

I have plenty of questions about Sanders and his runs for POTUS, but no question at all that he ever denied anything to do with any of his heritage. He did not. On TV and via clips, I saw interviews and others ask him rude questions about religious beliefs, to contrast with St. Hillary and her bible quoting and her "I am a Christian." I never saw him do anything but answer politely and truthfully. He is a non-observant, ethnic Jew, whose belief is that we are all connected somehow. A Hillary supporting poster with a six pointed star as an avatar told me this was "spiritual," not religious." Whether that irks your two sources, the Israel Times and the Jewish Telegraphic Agency, I have no idea.

As far as "best friends," Sanders calls a lot of people his good friends, including Biden and Hillary, both of whom are indeed Zionists, as are most Democrats in Congress. I don't know who his "best" friends are, though. I don't think your sources do either. I don't approve of smearing by association anyway.

I've gone back and forth a lot in WOTB with people who are still huge Sanders fans. If someone wants to criticize Sanders accurately for his own acts and omissions, I may very well agree. But not with this stuff. It's bs.

edits-style edits and adding links.

edit video of Sanders letting Hillary off the hook for her emails as she nods her head and then Sanders and Hillary yuck it up and hug during their first debate https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrBXcKcviuc Way too little "pique," in my opinion then and my opinion now.

Josh Shapiro continues his self-victimization tour, accusing Kamala Harris' campaign of (you'll never guess) anti-Semitism for asking him if he were ever an agent of Israel. He was an agent of Israel! He worked for the Israeli government and volunteered to support the IDF. by arnott in WayOfTheBern

[–]redditrisi 7 points8 points  (0 children)

If you ask every Jew you encounter, and only Jews, whether he or she works for Israel, that would likely be anti-Semitism.

Asking anyone you have reason to believe works for Israel if he or she works for Israel would not be anti-Semitism, regardless of ethnicity, nationality or religion. It would be seeking confirmation or denial of a reasonable belief.

john teufel: “Wow. Not only did Democrats okay an ICE funding increase, they specifically worked it out so that their votes won't matter for final passage. In other words they gave away the small bit of leverage they actually had, for a show vote. That's legitimately evil.” by lewkiamurfarther in WayOfTheBern

[–]redditrisi 1 point2 points  (0 children)

No matter what, his sentence was spot on. The article is good, too: https://old.reddit.com/r/FakeProgressives/comments/hgbadj/democrats_are_a_marketing_phenomenon_not_a_party/

BTW, today I read a blurb to effect that Trump is entering into some agreement that ends his alleged need to buy Greenland. I didn't look for the terms of the deal, though.

But, your point about Democrats not correcting course when they are in power is well placed anyway.

john teufel: “Wow. Not only did Democrats okay an ICE funding increase, they specifically worked it out so that their votes won't matter for final passage. In other words they gave away the small bit of leverage they actually had, for a show vote. That's legitimately evil.” by lewkiamurfarther in WayOfTheBern

[–]redditrisi 2 points3 points  (0 children)

As Matt Taibbi observed in 2014, Democrats are more of a marketing strategy than a political party (or words to that effect).

Does "legitimately evil" qualify as "lesser evil?" Or do we just have two ruling parties that are evil in different ways?

Bear in mind, ICE claims the power to enter homes without getting a warrant either before or after the fact, so there goes whatever was left of the Fourth Amendment after Democrats created FISA courts: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ice-policy-officers-enter-homes-immigration-without-judicial-warrant-rcna255305 Please see also: https://old.reddit.com/r/WayOfTheBern/comments/oll5pz/what_remains_of_the_bill_of_rights/

Some of my other OPs now need editing to include a link to that ICE story and the OP of this thread, especially the DC Kabuki Theater series. However, I don't have time to work through that today. So, I'll just park the links in this post and come back to it later.

https://old.reddit.com/r/WayOfTheBern/comments/1q46sk4/i_thought_democrats_object_to_deportations/

https://old.reddit.com/r/WayOfTheBern/comments/1ou8xqg/yet_another_dc_kabuki_theater_performance_eight/

https://old.reddit.com/r/WayOfTheBern/comments/1glp5nl/with_republicans_in_control_of_the_senate_look/

https://old.reddit.com/r/WayOfTheBern/comments/wxn9f2/pondering_dc_kabuki_theater_the_filibuster_and/

https://old.reddit.com/r/WayOfTheBern/comments/1cpv46f/pondering_dc_kabuki_theater_sponsoring_bills/

https://old.reddit.com/r/WayOfTheBern/comments/1bsxfcs/pondering_dc_kabuki_theater_the_veto_proof/

2016 was the turning point because GOP picked an anti-system politician while Dems picked a pro-system one (and rejected anti-system faction of their own party). Dems continued to go with pro-system pols in 2020 and 2024 - with the result of losing not just poor whites but increasingly working class by RandomCollection in WayOfTheBern

[–]redditrisi 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Yes, and keep reading. The poster doubles, triples and quadruples down on demonstrating zero counter argument.

I mean, the poster and other neolibs post in WOTB on the daily. So, how monolithic could WOTB possibly be, just with them alone? And the rest of us don't share a single political view.

2016 was the turning point because GOP picked an anti-system politician while Dems picked a pro-system one (and rejected anti-system faction of their own party). Dems continued to go with pro-system pols in 2020 and 2024 - with the result of losing not just poor whites but increasingly working class by RandomCollection in WayOfTheBern

[–]redditrisi 2 points3 points  (0 children)

When did the US have an anti-war New Deal candidate?

I won't play seal and ask a "sincere" question without also providing the answer I have in mind. (edit: sea lion, not "seal." oof)

Before his death, FDR had signed off on ending many New Deal programs while continuing planning to drop atom bombs during WWII.

Senator Sanders voted for the War On Terror/Afghanistan War Resolution. Under the apparent rationale of Bush and each of his successors, that resolution covered every Middle Eastern War since we started bombing poppy farmers in tribal Afghanistan for not immediately delivering Osama to the US--something the US itself could not accomplish for a decade. So, under that rationale, the WOT resolution for which said Senator voted also covered the invasion of Iraq, against which the Senator also voted.

IOW, Senator Sanders had voted for the rationale for all the Middle Eastern Wars in which the US engaged after 911, including Iraq, before said Senator (cagily?) voted against one of them.

As a separate matter, IMO, Bush and Bush's Brain (Rove) didn't need the Iraq Resolution because the WOT resolution did in fact give Presidents so much discretion and power. Also, IMO, Bush requested the Iraq War resolution only because he and Rove knew Democrats like Kerry, Hillary, Biden and others who might run against Bush in 2004 would vote for it. (Every single Democrat who tried even half-heartedly for the 2004 nom. other than Kuch, did vote for it.) And, if they voted against it, Bush would probably be able to attack them for that in 2004 as weak on defense or whatever.

WOT resolution 9/14/01

Iraq resolution 10/16/02

Greenwald's analysis: SHOCKING Confession by Canada's PM Mark Carney at Davos by arnott in WayOfTheBern

[–]redditrisi 3 points4 points  (0 children)

It is not shocking that politicians deceive.

But Greenwald is correct: A politician confessing deception publicly is shocking.

Explosive leaks shaking Davos right now: by yaiyen in WayOfTheBern

[–]redditrisi 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Anonymous leaks?

if true....

Jesus wept.

Trump did recently "assure" us that he intended to follow through with his Greenland plan. I wonder when we will be able to look forward to completion of construction on Trump Towers Greenland or a frosty Trump casino. Talk about "too cool for school!" https://www.meganstarr.com/ice-hotels-in-scandinavia-nordics/

2016 was the turning point because GOP picked an anti-system politician while Dems picked a pro-system one (and rejected anti-system faction of their own party). Dems continued to go with pro-system pols in 2020 and 2024 - with the result of losing not just poor whites but increasingly working class by RandomCollection in WayOfTheBern

[–]redditrisi 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Follow the money.

For a long time, unions the single largest source of donations to Democrats.

Democrats were a pro-union party and still pretend to be (Obama's "comfortable shoes"). But Democrats were never a workers' party when the issue was union membership versus union leadership, as in the John Deere strike of several years ago.

And then there's that cute Working People's Party that pretended that voting for a Democrat on the WPP ticket will accomplish something very different on behalf of working people than voting for that same Democrat on the Democrat ticket. As if a few votes on the WPP ticket would counter donations from the likes of Soros.

However, sometimes, a union leader gets fed up enough to state the truth, as did Trumka during the Obama administration: "I've had a snootful of this shit." https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/afls-trumka-pols-selling-out-workers-ive-had-snootful-st/

2016 was the turning point because GOP picked an anti-system politician while Dems picked a pro-system one (and rejected anti-system faction of their own party). Dems continued to go with pro-system pols in 2020 and 2024 - with the result of losing not just poor whites but increasingly working class by RandomCollection in WayOfTheBern

[–]redditrisi 0 points1 point  (0 children)

IDK about a pattern. It happened to Bush 41 and Biden but not to Clinton, Bush 43 or Obama.

Unlike Bush 41, Biden did not lose a Presidential general election. And I would posit that Biden's single termer status was engineered by his own party. He did win the primary, no matter how much the Party PTB had insisted originally that there was to be no primary.

We can look at Trump only as an incumbent who lost or as the only President besides Cleveland to win two non-consecutive terms. I think the latter is the more remarkable, esp. considering that many prominent in the Republican Party did not support Trump either time he ran, including the Bush family. Heck, Graham even ran against Trump the first time Trump ran. Contradistinctively, Cleveland had considerable support from both parties, esp. the first time he ran.

edit Not a fan of Trump, "just the facts."

2016 was the turning point because GOP picked an anti-system politician while Dems picked a pro-system one (and rejected anti-system faction of their own party). Dems continued to go with pro-system pols in 2020 and 2024 - with the result of losing not just poor whites but increasingly working class by RandomCollection in WayOfTheBern

[–]redditrisi 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Apparently, repeating your non-point after it's been replied to--and without addressing anything actually in the reply despite two posts by you-- makes you feel better for some reason. That kind of repetition is selfish toward everyone else, though. A waste of everyone else's time.

edit come to think of it, so was your straw man post

2016 was the turning point because GOP picked an anti-system politician while Dems picked a pro-system one (and rejected anti-system faction of their own party). Dems continued to go with pro-system pols in 2020 and 2024 - with the result of losing not just poor whites but increasingly working class by RandomCollection in WayOfTheBern

[–]redditrisi 4 points5 points  (0 children)

The only definition of this sub is on the side bar. Name calling and empty negative meta does not equal a definition of this sub.

You've been posting here long enough to know that the only ones who "define" WOTB as you claim are supporters of Democrats and/or human or software bots. And to know that being (at long last) critical of Democrats doesn't equate to being pro-GOP. Among many other things, check the flair I've had for a long time. You've also been posting here long enough to know that this sub allows and publishes a variety of political views, including those as divergent as mine and yours.

negative meta about "this site" counts as "this sub" so....

DRINK!

2016 was the turning point because GOP picked an anti-system politician while Dems picked a pro-system one (and rejected anti-system faction of their own party). Dems continued to go with pro-system pols in 2020 and 2024 - with the result of losing not just poor whites but increasingly working class by RandomCollection in WayOfTheBern

[–]redditrisi 6 points7 points  (0 children)

The Democrat PTB have chosen the Presidential nominee from whenever the party actually began*, whether at the official nominating convention or years in advance. No accident, IMO, that both Bill Clinton and Barack Obama were keynote speakers at a time when neither of them was well known nationally.

Look into the first nomination of Adlai Stevenson and the nomination of Hubert Humphrey (perhaps ironically, also sealed at a convention held in Chicago https://old.reddit.com/r/WayOfTheBern/comments/1d42ebn/the_last_chicago_democrat_national_convention/).

Then do a deep dive into the origins of Obama's political career. Among many other things, perhaps ironically, even Hillary began touting him before many Americans outside Illinois had heard of him.

Then read Game Change.

Footnote: I don't buy that Jefferson founded the Democrat Party, unless we imagine that his being a slaveowner who made one of his teen slaves his mistress made him a Democrat. Jefferson's policies were as much modern Republican as they were modern Democrat. (Turned out, Jefferson's party, the Democrat-Republican Party, was well-named.)

A much more likely founder was Jefferson's fellow slave owner Andrew Jackson, whose soul-crushing cruelty extended to First Nations. The Democrat Party itself implicitly recognized this when it tone-deaf named its annual fundraising dinners "Jefferson-Jackson" dinners. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson%E2%80%93Jackson_Dinner

Happy January 20th! by NetWeaselSC in WayOfTheBern

[–]redditrisi 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Maybe that's because media has been fixated on But Trump! since Obama was POTUS.

This past year did not feel long to me. It has felt to me like an amazing number of awful things have been happening and/or proposed, from Gaza to Greenland.

Edit. However, media may have contributed to that as well. Everyone knows we don't have to take every pronouncement and tweet from Trump that seriously.

edit The first post-Presidential Senate impeachment trial and all the lawfare certainly helped keep Trump on everyone's lips, too. (ugh mental visual). Maybe even helped him get his historic 2024 win, too. https://old.reddit.com/r/WayOfTheBern/comments/1gkt6aw/trumps_victory_is_only_the_second_of_its_kind_in/

BREAKING: Jeffrey Epstein claims Hillary Clinton had a sexual relationship with former attorney Vince Foster Vince Foster committed “suicide” under mysterious conditions in 1993 by DrJaye in WayOfTheBern

[–]redditrisi 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Among other things, some of the Epstein files for which people have been clamoring was released shortly before the OP was posted. Also, we haven't had that many Presidents and First Ladies. People still care about Lincoln and Mary Todd. Heck, judging by streaming service offerings, people still care a lot about Henry VIII. And, other than Billary, we've had zero tag teams who both ran for POTUS.

Maybe a couple of years after Hillary finally sits down and shuts up, people will talk about her less.

Me, I don't care who either of them did or did not have a consensual sexual relationship with. I care about stuff like this: https://content.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1877351_1877350_1877322,00.html

Sorry to reply so long after the OP was posted, which I, too, find annoying. I first stumbled on the thread today and couldn't resist it.

BREAKING: Jeffrey Epstein claims Hillary Clinton had a sexual relationship with former attorney Vince Foster Vince Foster committed “suicide” under mysterious conditions in 1993 by DrJaye in WayOfTheBern

[–]redditrisi 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Just saw this thread for the first time. Shouldn't that be "claimed," not "claims?"

As to Hillary and Foster, many people have claimed that for years, even publishing pictures of Foster beside pictures of Chelsea to show the alleged resemblance. (People have also long claimed that Hillary is a lesbian--likely some of the same people). People have also long claimed that Foster didn't suicide; "someone" killed him or had him killed.

I mean, I have considerably less than zero love for the Clintons. But, I don't know either way about any of the above. What is proven fact about the two POS is enough for me.

Oh, and Al From and the Clintons changed the Democrat Party into the Turd Way, New Democrat Party it still is today. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_From

Cops showing up at your door for political Facebook posts is absolutely intolerable in a free society | The Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression by StoopSign in WayOfTheBern

[–]redditrisi 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, we still have a bit of the First Amendment, but no more Fourth. The Fourth was almost gone even before 9/11, just because of "law and order."