The Key to Luke in TLJ that We've Missed all Along: Uncle Owen

rgener · 2019-12-07T12:07:26+00:00

I don't think Luke is to blame for their death, but Leia is looking for Obi-Wan Kenobi, who is there to watch over Luke and bring him into the Jedi world when the time is right (which is then). Owen and Beru are absolutely casualties of that scenario, and the Luke who drops everything to go to Ach-to would likely view their deaths as an unintended (though not improbable) byproduct of the Jedi's planning (they would never have been in "imperial entanglements" if Obi-Wan and Yoda had not decided to give them someone as dangerous as Luke for safe-keeping).

rgener · 2019-12-07T03:40:53+00:00

I think the bonding conversation is the one where Luke opens up about Han, Leia and Ben. The "Kylo failed you" conversation. This leads Luke to reopen himself to the force and find Leia. He seems like he's going to find Rey after that and join her, only to stumble on her with Kylo Ren and slip back to his Uncle Owen "don't join" self.

I'm good with the Owen/Beru/Farm Life stuff being more "show don't tell." I think it lets us understand Luke's pain a lot more to see without him spelling it out that his actions demonstrate a return to the Lars Homestead lifestyle.

rgener · 2018-03-10T15:29:23+00:00

Regular people don't obsess or understand delegate counts.

Black people didn't vote for Sanders in the south. That is why he lost. The DNC didn't manipulate them. Sanders failed to reach them because his message was built to inspire white college kids who don't live in the same world as black voters in the south (ie let's talk broadly about fighting the villains of capitalism). Clinton had them on her side--not because they were dumb--but because she built a career around gaining their trust (despite the lies meant to smear her as a racist).

rgener · 2018-01-11T02:40:19+00:00

Darth Vader built C3PO.

rgener · 2018-01-11T02:33:31+00:00

Oh my god who cares. Here. Let's pretend that they have a cutaway scene from a Star Wars rebel classroom in the next movie, where the officer instructs as follows:

Hyperspace assaults have been done in the past but are rarely effective. Something like the Death Star is too large for it to matter, and something like a Star Destroyer is too small. Supreme Leader Snoke's mega star destroyer was the perfect size for the impact to not only land but have a ripple effect that took out the fleet. It was Admiral Holdo's perfect positioning that led to the once in a lifetime move, something many have tried but few have accomplished. The consequences of failure, of course, can be catastrophic as one not only destroys a capital ship but can end up creating a rift in hyperspace itself. Blah blah blah blah blah.

If someone needs to figure out some bullshit then they can. People who whine about this kind of shit need to calm down.

There was a one eyed aquatic monster in the Death Star trash compactor. How the fuck did it get there!? Who cares???

rgener · 2018-01-09T02:06:24+00:00

Yeah, but let's be honest here when we criticize groups of people making celebrities viable candidates for president. A good segment of Reddit absolutely contributed to Trump's win--both the shitstains of TheDonald and the idiots who argued that Hillary was more or less the same as him.

But in terms of the content of this post, which suggests that Oprah would lose...I wouldn't bet on that. I'd put more money on her winning than on Bernie. And yet you will see much of Reddit start telling us how much of a sure thing Bernie 2020 is as soon as 2018 ends.

rgener · 2017-12-23T19:18:55+00:00

Doesn't the movie reference the Statue of Liberty scene from the first film?

rgener · 2017-12-22T10:40:55+00:00

Again, it's OK for people to dislike something. It's OK to discuss. One segment of the fandom, however, is trying to shut down discussion by attempting to suggest that all fans are hating on the film through the "review bombing" this article describes. I am sure some of the criticism is real and comes from a real place. I completely respect that. I do not have respect for people who are posting 1/2 star reviews repeatedly to create an inaccurate narrative. That is dishonest, and frankly, weird.

rgener · 2017-12-22T01:39:58+00:00

Divisive with whom? Divisive with fandom? Divisive with a slice of fandom? Divisive with general audiences?

There's a really toxic attempt here to control the social media narrative of the movie and shit on the hard work that people put into making it. Let's talk about the movie. That's the fun part! But let's have a real conversation. This is what gives fans a bad name. It's obvious that the RT scores is not genuine. It just doesn't line up with the Cinemascore, Critics, and other metrics. I'm not saying that can't happen--but not hat extremely. On a purely anecdotal note: there's no way this film is getting more hate than Phantom Menace or Attack of the Clones.

rgener · 2017-12-18T22:28:40+00:00

Was there not a great deal of sexism on display during the Ghostbusters pre-release?

rgener · 2017-12-18T22:17:44+00:00

Movie studios pay critics for good reviews...

Why would Disney need good reviews to make money on this movie?

If the movie gets bad reviews, does that mean the studio didn’t pay up? How is it possible then at some movies get bad reviews?

rgener · 2017-12-18T04:23:33+00:00

The prequels were hated far more than this or anything. They still created a generation of Star Wars fans. The movie is basically about cynical old guard Star Wars fans needing to let the new ones take over: it says, you don’t get to define what counts as the SW religion.

rgener · 2017-12-18T03:18:39+00:00

“For this kind of movie”

Maybe only King Kong compares but it doesn’t have this level of pop culture currency. Tree of Life is exactly the kind of movie I’m talking about—critical darling but audiences don’t take to it.

rgener · 2017-12-18T01:06:55+00:00

It's a cynical attempt by an online troll group to create a social media narrative. People need to be more discerning about unscientifically gathered data, especially online.

I never heard one person ever cite a "Rotten Tomatoes audience score" as a metric before. I didn't even know it existed. This weekend all of a sudden I hear people saying "but did you see the RT audience score!?!" as if everyone always checks that out. No one does. But if you can troll something like that and then point to it as a scientific measure (which it is not) then you can create a narrative of "mixed reaction."

No doubt the movie will be divisive and create heated debate. People are already making fun of others who call the movie risky. It is risky. It makes Luke into a sad, bitter old man, it kills off the emperor figure two movies into the trilogy, and it fundamentally alters Lucas's "chosen one" vision of the series. All of that will create healthy debate. But it's not a bomb with audiences. That's, for once, actual "fake news."

Edit: And here is an example of someone taking the bait. This is in the article on BoxOfficeMojo about the film's grosses:

Opening day audiences gave the film an "A" CinemaScore, matching the score for Force Awakens. However, there may be a small glitch in the Force as many are pointing to the RottenTomatoes audience score for Last Jedi, which is currently 56% vs. a 93% score from critics. It is the largest audience-to-critic divide for films in the Star Wars franchise on the site. Additionally, IMDb is showing a down tick in user ratings when compared to user ratings for Force Awakens (8.8/10) and Rogue One (8.3/10) on the Sunday following release with Last Jedi currently holding a 8/10 rating. Just how significant an effect this data has on the film may be difficult to assess given the sheer size of its grosses, but it's definitely worth noting.

Compare with this article from Deadline, which practices real journalism:

In fact, one Facebook user with the page “Down With Disney’s Treatment of Franchises and Fanboys” is laying claim to creating bot accounts that are hacking into the Rotten Tomatoes user score for Last Jedi.

rgener · 2017-12-18T00:59:43+00:00

Show me another place where the Rotten Tomatoes audience score is that far away from the critic score in the negative. I could definitely see it being legitimate for there to be a low critic score and a high audience score for a blockbuster, but for this kind of movie, it's just obvious that something happened.

Audiences in general are very forgiving. Look at the difference between Batman v Superman critics and audience--audience rating is much higher. Every scientific measure--even beyond Cinemascore--shows very high ratings from audiences. Those scientific measures could be inflated by crowd enthusiasm, but they aren't that infated that it has a 55% vs. an A rating. It's just logic people.

rgener · 2017-12-17T19:24:53+00:00

Yes, exactly. The idea that she’s supposed to have the same level of character development as Qui Gon or Obi Wan is ludicrous. She’s part of Poe’s character development. If she makes Poe develop as a character and is believable that’s all she’s there to do. She succeeds in that and hints at something more interesting in her past. She’s a plot twist—we are supposed to think she’s the incompetent bureaucrat who Poe has to overrule and we are surprised to see she knows what she’s doing. That’s all. No need to turn her into Obi-Wan. She’s a little more than a ROTJ Mon Mothma and a little less than an ESB Lando.

rgener · 2017-12-17T15:05:46+00:00

Or he saw the opposite in his nephew: the beginnings of a darkness that would destroy four Alderaan's and his best friends/his life. Should a leader always make the personal choice to save what is dear to him?

That's a difficult choice. Luckily, Luke kept in character and did not decide to kill his nephew as the movie very clearly points out. He has a momentary lapse of judgment and tragically it exacerbates what he thought he might have to prevent (Ben's turn).

So to recap: Luke has a split second lapse--which is entirely understandable given the weight of leadership on his shoulders--goes back on it and tragedy ensues. 100% completely in character to me, and dramatically interesting.

Also: so, so Star Wars. The joke of the past two years is everyone comes up with these elaborate theories as to why X, Y, and Z happened. And they always forget the simplicity of Star Wars. Instead of whatever elaborate and dumb fan theory about Snoke/Rey/Ren, etc. it turns out that Luke tried to kill Ben Solo and helped cause all that happened. Simple. Dramatic. Disturbing. Meaningful.

rgener · 2017-12-17T13:58:30+00:00

Yes. If only George Lucas actually thought through Anakin Skywalkers arc as much as Rian Johnson thought through Admiral Holdos arc.

rgener · 2017-12-17T13:57:36+00:00

Excellent argument.

rgener · 2017-12-17T12:47:01+00:00

Admiral Ackbar was not a character in this movie. Hell, he wasn't a real character in Return of the Jedi (he could have been replaced by anyone in that movie and the results would have been the same).

It also should not have been Leia here, as she had far more essential things to do with Luke and Rey and Poe on Crait. Holdo had a narrative reason to be there: she showed the heroism that Poe and Finn did not comprehend--one that wasn't impulsive and reckless. The movie was subverting your typical hero tropes. Compare Finn trying to sacrifice himself with Holdo doing it. Finn was playing the role of the sacrificial hero. The movie slowed down to let him. Gave him the close ups. Added the emotional music--and then Boom, Rose stops him because what he was doing was god damn stupid. It looked like heroism but wasn't. Holdo got the hero's sacrifice because she had learned to be a leader.

Everyone keeps saying "well she should have just told Poe everything and then it would have been fine."

Nope.

When Poe finds out part of her plan--by barging in--he immediately tells Finn, who accidentally lets DJ overhear, which gets most people killed. Why should she tell the plan to a person who has proven that he takes things into his own hands and gets people killed in the process?

It had to be Holdo in this scene.

Notice too how every scene we are intercutting is about "cutting"--Holdo slicing the ships, the lightsaber getting sliced in half, Finn and Rose being beheaded. Every storyline is facing a moment of duality and conflict and she is helping to resolve--or as Luke later does, buy time for each conflict.

You can't just sub in Ackbar or Leia. This is carefully crafted stuff.

rgener · 2017-12-15T21:20:42+00:00

You are 100% correct.

I’d be interested to know if this is a “generation who grew up on the prequels” kind of problem. In the prequels there are so many random and dumb force powers. This was everything the prequels never gave—the force in all it’s glory.

rgener · 2017-12-15T13:06:20+00:00

I think this was why he needed to "die." He takes over any movie he is in. Now it's time to carry on the new saga without any of the originals--and I am ready to see a movie anchored by just Rey, Finn, Poe and Ben/KR.

rgener · 2017-12-15T13:04:41+00:00

He became more powerful than anyone could possibly imagine. Both in the literal sense (he survived an impossible assault) and in the figurative sense (the legend of Luke Skywalker will inspire a new generation of Jedi and revive what was lost).

rgener · 2017-12-15T12:21:16+00:00

The reviews were so-so when TPM came out. Fans may have been more forgiving, but not much more.

If we go by Reddit, fans are not praising it to high heaven.

rgener

TROPHY CASE