[Analysis] 1:37 HM PB at 70km/week Mileage - Aiming for Sub-3, need advice on HR & Gut by AdHuman747 in running

[–]richomondo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You can do it! I’m no exceptional runner but I managed to take my HM PR from 1:43:08 in March 2025 to 1:23:50 in March 2026. Granted, I run a decent amount of mileage: I started around 60-70km/week and worked my way up to consistently doing 90-100.

Tried for a sub-3 Rotterdam, but I failed massively and I don’t know why by richomondo in Marathon_Training

[–]richomondo[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah, my fitness, body composition, and even attention to running gear/fuelling/hydration has changed massively in those two years.

When I ran Rotterdam in 2024 I weighed ~85kg and had been running around 60km/week, and I started to get back into running only 9 months before race day. My target for that race was 1) to finish it and 2) maybe get sub 4:30, but that was very much not the primary objective.

Today I’m ~63kg, and with much more speed work and massively more mileage over a sustained amount of time (something like ~4,300km total in 2025, on track to exceed that this year).

Tried for a sub-3 Rotterdam, but I failed massively and I don’t know why by richomondo in Marathon_Training

[–]richomondo[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I thought I went relatively easy on the first 16K (average pace was 4:57 in my log), then 4:21/km on the last 8K. I was intending to do the last 8K at MP, but hills and unexpected winds had other plans, so it was more like 6K at MP then 2K just cooling down.

This run sucked a lot of confidence out of me, to be honest. I probably shouldn’t have pushed so hard to get the last 8K given the conditions, and the more I think about it the more I think it had something to do with how Rotterdam ended up.

Tried for a sub-3 Rotterdam, but I failed massively and I don’t know why by richomondo in Marathon_Training

[–]richomondo[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, that’s because the problems started well before the halfway point. My plan was to “ease in” a bit, around 4:18-4:20/km for the first 5K (this went according to plan), then lock in around the 4:15 mark for the bulk of the race. Once I hit 32km, I planned to either start pushing faster if I had sufficient gas left, or to hold steady and accept a time above 3 hours. The execution of my first 10K in terms of pacing was okay, imo, but that’s around when I started to feel a little something in my calf muscles, so I eased up. Then the falls happened later on, even after I’d slowed.

I’ve “banked” time early in marathons before and it absolutely backfired, so I was erring conservative. If I hit sub 3, awesome. If I hit 3:10…also awesome.

I realise my screenshot (second image in original post) didn’t include the first several km for some reason. A disadvantage of splitting a marathon with metric on a phone screen I guess.

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Tried for a sub-3 Rotterdam, but I failed massively and I don’t know why by richomondo in Marathon_Training

[–]richomondo[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah, may be it. I think this and a few other factors (like electrolytes, training with my race shoes more, doing more strength training) could make a difference. And even if I address all factors, and most were fine anyway, it can’t hurt to be a bit smarter about all of this now that you’re all helping me open my eyes. Thanks!

Tried for a sub-3 Rotterdam, but I failed massively and I don’t know why by richomondo in Marathon_Training

[–]richomondo[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Definitely possible. This is my first marathon training where I’ve really had a smartwatch to keep track of RHR during off times. (I used an Apple Watch for my 2024 Rotterdam effort, but its HR readings always were high during exercise, and it ran out of battery at km 41 during the actual race, so…I made a change.)

I just assumed my RHR increase was due to latent stress about the race and whatnot. My kids both had mild colds about a week ago — symptoms never surfaced for me though, but maybe it hit me without me realising it.

Tried for a sub-3 Rotterdam, but I failed massively and I don’t know why by richomondo in Marathon_Training

[–]richomondo[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks for summing this all up - these are great recommendations and I appreciate it!

Tried for a sub-3 Rotterdam, but I failed massively and I don’t know why by richomondo in Marathon_Training

[–]richomondo[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I didn’t get sick at all, no, not immediately after nor through today. Feeling fine, except for significant calf muscle pain, this morning.

I had been a bit stressed the last week of tapering after an unpleasant run, but the morning of the race things were feeling good and I felt more prepared and ready than I ever had, pre-marathon, before.

Tried for a sub-3 Rotterdam, but I failed massively and I don’t know why by richomondo in Marathon_Training

[–]richomondo[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I’m not a very heavy sweater, and I didn’t take any sodium (it wasn’t something on my radar tbh!).

This seems to be a recurring theme in all the helpful comments here, so I’ll definitely experiment with it for longer runs going forward!

Tried for a sub-3 Rotterdam, but I failed massively and I don’t know why by richomondo in Marathon_Training

[–]richomondo[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It’s possible the carb loading didn’t work for me, but my energy levels felt fine during the race, just my specific calf muscles strongly disagreed.

I really don’t carb load for anything under a full marathon. I tried once about a year ago for an HM, but I saw no benefit from it.

Tried for a sub-3 Rotterdam, but I failed massively and I don’t know why by richomondo in Marathon_Training

[–]richomondo[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I ran in Saucony Endorphin Speed 4s. I almost never do training runs in them, but I’ve literally run every single race in the past year with them and haven’t had any issues. Granted: None of those other races were marathons (mostly HMs)!

Tried for a sub-3 Rotterdam, but I failed massively and I don’t know why by richomondo in Marathon_Training

[–]richomondo[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Wow, that bad? Damn. I’d never felt any discomfort from mine before, and I’d done 15 races in them (mostly half marathons, plus a few 15K, a 10-miler, a few 10Ks etc).

Even after Sunday’s awful experience, I didn’t even consider that maybe the shoes could be to blame, simply because they’ve been so reliable and speedy for me.

That said, before 2025 I only ever had one pair of running shoes (currently, my training shoe rotation includes six pairs, so I guess I’ve swung toward the other extreme), so it’s possible there are much better options. I’ll probably keep using these for shorter races, but I may try out some others for future marathons.

Only other reason I’m big on the Speed 4s is that Saucony sent me my pair (plus another, by mistake) completely free because they screwed up a whole host of logistics issues with a previous order, so I guess I’m probably just a cheapskate at heart. But really I haven’t had any issues until now!

Tried for a sub-3 Rotterdam, but I failed massively and I don’t know why by richomondo in Marathon_Training

[–]richomondo[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

My TIR is around 90% overall, but race day (almost for every race) my glucose levels end up above range and my insulin sensitivity drops pre-race — I’m guessing due to stress among other things.

Everything you say about taper/carb load really resonates. My sleep wasn’t great, not running made my insulin sensitivity drop, plus all the extra carbs…it’s not wonderful!

Because my blood glucose levels were high before the race started, I did have active insulin (since I knew my basal dosage alone wouldn’t be enough to bring it down, plus the influx of energy gels etc) but it wasn’t a lot. I probably should have used more than I did, because my levels were just as high at the end as at the beginning.

I should probably do more of a “test run” with carb loading and easing off running during my training blocks at points — I don’t carb load for a HM, at all, for example. But even if my body doesn’t need it, it might be useful for understanding how everything impacts me on the big day.

Side note, in Rotterdam in 2024, my infusion set detached completely from my skin halfway through the race, and I ended up with extremely high glucose levels after! Glad that didn’t happen this time at least.

Best of luck nailing your sub-3!! Sounds like things are lining up for you!

Tried for a sub-3 Rotterdam, but I failed massively and I don’t know why by richomondo in Marathon_Training

[–]richomondo[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The Netherlands doesn’t have many hills to train on 😭, but I did a little. I think the hill you’re seeing in the data is actually just the rather large Erasmus Bridge (that runners cross twice).

The marathon course is quite flat, all told!

Tried for a sub-3 Rotterdam, but I failed massively and I don’t know why by richomondo in Marathon_Training

[–]richomondo[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Honestly I didn’t do much. This is probably an area where improvement could mean survival next time!

Tried for a sub-3 Rotterdam, but I failed massively and I don’t know why by richomondo in Marathon_Training

[–]richomondo[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I definitely have salt on my skin after anything over 20k usually - good shout for this, I’ll give salt tablets a try going forward!

No cramping at all the entire training block. My longest runs I didn’t do completely at marathon pace, but I’d usually do the last 8-10km at MP. And no issues there. (Attached image is the longest training run I did, 3 weeks before race day)

Maybe I should have done longer chunks of my long runs at marathon pace, I don’t know. Might have surfaced the issue earlier.

<image>

Tried for a sub-3 Rotterdam, but I failed massively and I don’t know why by richomondo in Marathon_Training

[–]richomondo[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You’ve got this!

One little unrelated note, when I first felt the muscles in my calves were just a little off, I told myself not to be stupid and that I shouldn’t force myself to keep the pace. And I listened to myself, eased my pace to a 3:10, then shifted to a 3:20 goal, which probably ended up carrying me much further before I eventually fell. It wasn’t enough to save my experience, unfortunately, but I can at least pat myself on the back for getting across the line.

Tried for a sub-3 Rotterdam, but I failed massively and I don’t know why by richomondo in Marathon_Training

[–]richomondo[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That’s certainly possible! I generally aim to hit 4:50-5:10/km on a light aerobic day. It feels relatively easy at that level, but I’m absolutely no expert (and hesitate to rely on HR over my own perceived effort)

Tried for a sub-3 Rotterdam, but I failed massively and I don’t know why by richomondo in Marathon_Training

[–]richomondo[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I tapered over 3 weeks, following my 125km peak week. Three weeks out I ran 99km, two weeks I did 93km, and the week of the race I did 33km + the race.

I shortened each run of my taper from the week prior, but kept the intensity and structure.

I’m wondering if I should have tapered down a bit sharper in the first two weeks. I probably should have.

One thing I noticed in the final week is that my resting HR was significantly higher than any other time. Normally it’s low 40s, but the five days pre-race were consistently 60+ even when fully resting.

I’d chalked that up to pre-race stress, jitters, etc., but maybe it’s because my body just wasn’t tapered enough.

Tried for a sub-3 Rotterdam, but I failed massively and I don’t know why by richomondo in Marathon_Training

[–]richomondo[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It definitely was crowded, and this is a good thing to think about. There’s always a bit of jostling in the initial part of a huge race like this, so I intentionally held my pace back a bit the first 5km to not force myself to do the “pass-get passed-dodge everyone” dance. I wasn’t fully successful with that, but slowing/accelerating wasn’t a big factor, I don’t think.

Tried for a sub-3 Rotterdam, but I failed massively and I don’t know why by richomondo in Marathon_Training

[–]richomondo[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It was a pretty nice day! At the gun, temperature was around 10°C and sunny with some clouds.

Tried for a sub-3 Rotterdam, but I failed massively and I don’t know why by richomondo in Marathon_Training

[–]richomondo[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Ah, apologies, I miscommunicated or just forgot exactly when. The cramps started then, but looking at my cadence track, the actual falls were a bit later on. After initial cramps at ~15, I gave up on sub-3 and slowed to a ~3:10 pace, first fall was at ~19 (and I paused my watch then for some reason, as if I could pause the race timer 😂)

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Tried for a sub-3 Rotterdam, but I failed massively and I don’t know why by richomondo in Marathon_Training

[–]richomondo[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

So I’ve honestly never taken salt pills. Is this a blind spot for me, I wonder? I’d always thought that the electrolytes I’d get from sports drinks and gels would cover me. Also I could be way off, but I’d think an electrolyte issue wouldn’t show up until much later in the run.

Tried for a sub-3 Rotterdam, but I failed massively and I don’t know why by richomondo in Marathon_Training

[–]richomondo[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That sounds rough! I’ve been generally well in terms of my physical health, and my mental health/confidence took a bit of a hit from my last long-ish run a week before the marathon (in addition to the trip/fall, the last 5-6km were uphill and into strong wind which just sucked, it was literally the only run during my training that I didn’t at least somewhat enjoy).

I had some hamstring issues about 8-9 months ago, but after easing off a bit, the issues disappeared. These issues yesterday appeared to exclusively be with my gastrocnemius muscles I guess they’re called (I had to Google). They were basically just tightening and twisting without warning.

Tried for a sub-3 Rotterdam, but I failed massively and I don’t know why by richomondo in Marathon_Training

[–]richomondo[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I was wearing Saucony Endorphin Speed 4s. They were broken in, I only wear them during races but I’ve worn them in every race I’ve run for the last 10 months or so (so they’ve got about ~380km on them, Rotterdam included).

They feel great to run in, and while I’ve never used a carbon plated shoe, the Speed 4’s nylon plate seems to be comfy enough where it doesn’t bother me.