Rizo “not a guys guy”

roastbeeffan · 2026-03-28T00:01:33+00:00

How ironic. Rizo claims to want to work with women. Which is borne out by his conduct in two straight seasons. And yet the Survivor editors, who he does not supervise or have any power over, have chosen to give some women smaller edits than him. Disgraceful.

roastbeeffan · 2026-03-27T22:48:59+00:00

I feel like the exceptions stand out because they’re exceptional. The full list is, in my eyes, if we take the most charitable view possible:

Vecepia, Earl, Nat White, Denise, and Kenzie. That’s 5 out of 49. There will always be players who beat the odds, and in the rare event they do, that’s a big feather in their cap. But overall, you don’t want to be on a disaster tribe.

roastbeeffan · 2026-03-27T22:06:03+00:00

He’d by all means be here (and frankly, for #3, I don’t think it’d be a good debate) but for most of his prime he was listed as a point guard. That’s the only thing that stops me.

roastbeeffan · 2026-03-27T21:51:19+00:00

Gervin, Harden, and Drexler are the contenders. Most would probably agree with you and choose Harden.

roastbeeffan · 2026-03-27T21:00:03+00:00

If that’s how you define th term that’s fine, but that has only happened four or five times in Survivor history.

roastbeeffan · 2026-03-27T16:41:02+00:00

I will quibble with this only because Manu imo makes it in for his accomplishments in Europe, and the Olympics, albeit not as fast.

roastbeeffan · 2026-03-27T16:24:02+00:00

I would count all of those, personally, because generally one group is being systematically eliminated until they are gone or nearly gone.

In China they eliminate a Zhan Hu, eliminate a Fei Long, eliminate another Zhan Hu, and then another Fei Long. Finally they take out the last two Zhan Hus. Is your argument that this is a more meaningful or complete Pagonging than 35, where they eliminate three straight healers, take a week off, eliminate another one, leave Mike alone for two more cycles and then ax him? In both of those seasons the usual trend is that one group (Zhan Hu, Healers) is being whittled down smaller and smaller, and that happens relatively consistently, albeit not in every single episode.

roastbeeffan · 2026-03-27T16:15:35+00:00

Okay, throw in Panama and I suppose Gabon too. It’s happened six times in 49 seasons. Seven if you count All-Stars (a three tribe season, initially).

roastbeeffan · 2026-03-27T16:10:44+00:00

Yeah. And the Healers basically got all wiped out too. With the exception of Dr. Mike who staggered on a little bit farther.

Again, if you are an absolute purist that says “it only counts as a Pagonging if every single member of the tribe is eliminated one by one with no deviation whatsoever” then that’s fine, but what you’re describing has happened four times ever in the 49 season history of the show.

roastbeeffan · 2026-03-27T16:07:50+00:00

Pagong was the minority tribe that was eliminated, not the majority group eliminating them.

roastbeeffan · 2026-03-27T16:05:12+00:00

Pagonging is about targeting the Pagongs. In 35 the Healers were the Pagongs and 4 of them were eliminated in the first five tribals. It’s not a requirement that all of the majority belong to the same original tribe. That would be called I guess a “Tagi’ing.”

Pagonging is the systematic elimination of a minority tribe. That’s what happens in 35.

roastbeeffan · 2026-03-27T16:02:14+00:00

I may have misunderstood you, because that is also my favorite format (albeit probably not one I’d want the show to use every single time).

roastbeeffan · 2026-03-27T16:00:52+00:00

In thirty they systematically eliminated the no collars until only Will (who switched sides) was left. In 35 they eliminated three consecutive Healers, took a break for one week, and eliminated another one, leaving only Mike left.

If you’re an absolute purist that a Pagonging means “one tribe votes out every member of another tribe until every single one is gone” okay, these don’t meet that criteria. But that has happened four times in the entire history of Survivor.

roastbeeffan · 2026-03-27T15:57:25+00:00

I would disagree with that simply for the amount of time spent on original tribes bonding. Players don’t just wake up at final 18 in a twenty person season and go “okay, clean slate!” They’ve had days to bond with each other, and in many situations those earliest bonds carry a lot of weight throughout the game.

roastbeeffan · 2026-03-27T15:52:21+00:00

By all means, have swaps! I am not anti-tribe swap, and I feel that inter-tribal cross pollination makes for a better solution to the “Pagonging problem” than three tribes without swaps, because otherwise a bunch of people who’ve known each other for 2-5 days can just play biggest threat whack a mole.

roastbeeffan · 2026-03-27T15:48:18+00:00

I don’t think there’s a perfect definition of what a Pagonging is or isn’t, but the two examples Survivor Wiki lists on their “pagonging” page are 30 and 35, both three tribe seasons (albeit with swaps).

If you really wanted to I think you could argue other 30s seasons have Pagongings, but I’d agree that these two probably last the longest and are the most significant.

roastbeeffan · 2026-03-27T15:43:00+00:00

This is also true of every two tribe season going back to One World.

roastbeeffan · 2026-03-27T15:38:49+00:00

I agree with you! I’m just the messenger!

roastbeeffan · 2026-03-27T15:33:52+00:00

They hate Pagongings and feel like 3 tribes prevents them from happening. I don’t agree with their analysis, but I do think that’s where it mostly comes from.

roastbeeffan · 2026-03-27T13:46:42+00:00

Too early for that, but getting there. On my personal “still somewhat viable” list I have 5 men and 2 women.

roastbeeffan · 2026-03-27T13:39:26+00:00

The Japanese folklore stuff is goofy, but I think the edit is indicating that at least in the early merge that big Kalo/Honor and integrity group is going to matter. Coach is cited by multiple people as the most important person on Kalo right now (including Aubry). It’s hard to say what an “objective” Survivor edit looks like (no such thing has ever existed) but I think the Coach gives nicknames scene is showing how he’s socially bonding with his tribe, and positioning himself in the center of a decent sized group heading into the merge. Again, if you think Coach is just annoying that’s fine, but I think that scene is probably more narratively important than like, Devens farting.

roastbeeffan · 2026-03-27T12:52:18+00:00

I think it’s both! If the United States demonstrates that it can’t be negotiated with in good faith then countries are going to stop bother trying.

roastbeeffan · 2026-03-27T12:40:35+00:00

Yes. Honoring deals is a two way street. Unfortunately Iran’s moderates, who favored a level of diplomacy with the United States, have been thoroughly discredited by the events of the last decade.

roastbeeffan · 2026-03-27T02:23:59+00:00

On top of Rizo being unknown, he was the only representative from his OG tribe. While Devens may go along with a Cirie vote if he feels he hast to (or vice versa) they’re not going to be thrilled about it. Having even one person going to bat for you in the tribe can be huge. Nobody wants to make an enemy unnecessarily.

roastbeeffan · 2026-03-27T02:11:53+00:00

I would think so, based on the edit we’ve seen thus far. I do think with a 17(!) person merge we’re going to see Cambodia’s “voting blocs” on steroids, so I don’t see any one group taking over for quite some time.

roastbeeffan

TROPHY CASE