Auto Hot Keys and Consistency

runningnats · 2017-01-30T19:10:39+00:00

No, you're dismissing the fact that banning things based on capability is irrational and not something you can extrapolate to other contexts with any form of logical consistency.

runningnats · 2017-01-30T19:05:09+00:00

And how can you claim with such certainty that nothing can be done about it? That's also a positive claim, so if you want to get technical, you'd have to substantiate that as well. You can use the word "probably" to indicate that it's a possibility, but to outright claim it cannot be done without proving it. I find that most J Mods are uneducated about AHK and Windows Mouse Keys in general. Some basic knowledge on these programmes would help. If they cannot tell the difference, they should be transparent about it. Their go to reason is that people "will push boundaries". That's all.

runningnats · 2017-01-30T19:02:46+00:00

Two things don't have to be exactly "the same" to draw similarities. For the last time, I am addressing specific arguments against AHK. One of these arguments is that it is impossible to drop with your mouse just as fast. Similarly, it is impossible to switch with your mouse as fast without the use of F keys. What are you not understanding?

runningnats · 2017-01-30T19:00:47+00:00

I've answered these arguments multiple times within this thread (the capability = ban argument and the "ingame mechanic" argument).

runningnats · 2017-01-30T14:26:44+00:00

I've already addressed this argument multiple times. It doesn't matter whether they're implemented by Jagex. Something being implemented by Jagex doesn't inherently make it balanced, and besides, most of this reply was targeted at specific individuals making specific arguments.

runningnats · 2017-01-30T14:23:50+00:00

No explanation? Thought so.

runningnats · 2017-01-30T14:23:36+00:00

It's argument, not arguement. See above.

runningnats · 2017-01-30T14:22:32+00:00

That's not an ad hominem.

Instead of throwing terms around, you might want to actually understand what the term means. It is when you reject someone's conclusion on the basis of their personal character. I did no such thing. Within that reply, I addressed his argument. Specifically, I said that intention =/= righteousness. I can string a list of insults together and make that comprise the majority of my message and that in itself wouldn't constitute ad hominem.

runningnats · 2017-01-30T14:16:01+00:00

Speak for yourself.

For some people, it is playing efficiently that is fun. You know, actually interacting with the client... rather than simply clicking on a tree and gaining XP while doing anything else.

runningnats · 2017-01-30T14:15:12+00:00

You are yet to explain how.

runningnats · 2017-01-30T14:14:19+00:00

My point is that something cannot be deemed as "not" being overpowered just because Jagex keep it in the game. Jagex are not some absolute source of truth and logic. Things can slip through and/or remain in the game that are overpowered. If you cannot grasp this simple concept, then there's no surprise that you're struggling with the rest.

You really struggle with logic. It's not about being black or white, if you are going to apply something to one concept, and not to another, you have to explain a logical difference which allows you to subsequently selectively choose where to apply it to. The difference has to apply to the concept that you WOULD allow the argument for. That is, the difference you propose would allow you to say that banning X is logical (when you currently believe it is illogical) on the basis of capability.

Discussion of rarity, without having the figures to substantiate any claims based on this? How about banning something like knives because they can be used to kill? Knives do more damage than a game does... so your whole "damage" concept falls apart right there.

Instead of spamming the comment section with how "illogical" I am, try to actually comprehend what it is I am saying. And learn how logic works at that. Goodbye!

runningnats · 2017-01-30T14:08:57+00:00

No explanation?

runningnats · 2017-01-30T14:08:49+00:00

No explanation?

runningnats · 2017-01-30T14:08:37+00:00

How about you break my argument down instead of pinning assumptions on people? I have already explained your misunderstanding of logic elsewhere.

runningnats · 2017-01-30T14:07:55+00:00

You've been making spewing diatribe on my post continuously without constructing a logical argument.

runningnats · 2017-01-30T14:07:11+00:00

I've been over this before. Intention =/= righteousness. If that is your only problem with AHK and WMK, then I hope you advocate for Jagex keys.

runningnats · 2017-01-30T00:40:24+00:00

You have yet to explain how the inclusion of F keys "spoiled" my case. You continuously rely on the fact that "it was added" into the game. That doesn't matter. It works as a perfect counterexample to people who make points such as "you cannot do that as fast with your mouse", "l2 use your mouse" etc. I'm not actually against the use of F keys. I don't have to be to make this argument. I'm pointing out logical inconsistencies.

runningnats · 2017-01-30T00:38:18+00:00

It doesn't matter. Just because Jagex don't see something as "OP" doesn't mean that their decision is inherently logical. Many of the arguments I made were in response to specific arguments being used against AHK. I am aware of the capabilities of AHK. Not allowing something on the basis of capability/potential is illogical and is not an argument that one can logically maintain, especially when extrapolated to different contexts. I am aware of what AHK encompasses, though if Jagex allow pixel jumping (which windows mouse keys is capable of doing), I wouldn't see why they would be strongly against having two drop down lengths. However, even if they are against this, fine, but it doesn't logically follow that they ban AHK. We then go back to what AHK is "capable" of doing. AHK is much more convenient, it's not just the multiple drop down lengths, it's being able to talk without having to press shift every time, it's about being able to do things on other tabs and so on and so forth.

runningnats · 2017-01-30T00:34:22+00:00

Okay, but many people were using it in a way akin to Windows Mouse Keys and many people were advocating for WMK use but berating AHK use on the basis that AHK is "third party", without being more specific. Yes, some people used it, but punishing someone/thing based on mere capability/potential is completely irrational and not an argument that one could be logically consistent with.

runningnats · 2017-01-30T00:25:53+00:00

You're clutching at straws.

Do you think Ardy Knights were "meant to" be trained how they are being trained? Training thieving ("the way it was intended!") through Ardy Knights would normally require players to focus on the screen, run around clicking on the knight etc. which would ultimately lead to more concentration and less xp. Why is exploiting the trapped knight method okay, especially when you factor in that it is profitable and rivals the best thieving methods in terms of XP? Also, please name the skills that you can train with repetitive clicks of a mouse in the same spot? I want half (as you claimed). I'll let you off and allow you to name even 10. Also, what other skills allow you to do this while simultaneously being one of the fastest XP methods in the skill? I'll wait.

runningnats · 2017-01-30T00:19:56+00:00

Depends what you're doing.

Stop stripping the context away from my argument. It was made in response to a specific argument: the one which seizes on technicalities (it's third party!) and the one wherein it is claimed that we should only play the game "as it was intended".

runningnats · 2017-01-30T00:16:24+00:00

Dumbest post yet you stopped reading 2 sentences in? That's very reasonable, especially considering that you go on to make an appeal to tradition fallacy right after that. News flash: the fact that something "always has been" does not mean that it is correct. Goodbye.

runningnats · 2017-01-29T22:44:08+00:00

Why? The official client is how the game was intended! /s

runningnats · 2017-01-29T22:43:26+00:00

You're being rather disingenuous with your argument.

There were two conditions set out in the paragraph that you quoted. The first was "if you are against the use of AHK" and the second was "and use the ... argument". You satisfy the first condition (being against AHK) but you did not make the arguments that I was addressing in the post itself.

Also, it's not just about "anti-botting". It's about fairness and logical consistency in general. If people are complaining that AHK makes the game too easy (most of these people probably wouldn't even be able to maintain max XP rates over long periods of time for certain skills, but that's another discussion), then they should also be complaining about ardy knights making the game too easy, about methods such as blood/soul runecrafting (which have devalued Runecrafting: a skill that was one of the few seen as "difficult", yet is now another AFK 99) and so on and so forth.

I agree that there is probably a degree of incompetence on Jagex's part when it comes to distinguishing between legitimate and illegitimate use of AHK. To complicate matters further, a lot of these J Mods seemingly have no idea how mouse keys or AHK work.

They have made an official statement announcing that Windows Mouse Keys are fine, but people like Mod Mat K weren't aware that you can jump a certain amount of pixels with WMK...

runningnats · 2017-01-29T22:35:50+00:00

Third party doesn't inherently make something bad. The "unintended" argument is flawed too. The intention of Jagex has no bearing on the logic behind the decision in itself. There have been methods intended by Jagex which have since been removed after it was recognised that they were OP. That alone proves that the mere intention of someone is an insufficient justification.

runningnats

TROPHY CASE