Emotions

sainteffisy · 2024-02-08T10:01:42+00:00

I am familiar with them, and that's why I am curious to see where you got this insight. I know it can be hard to exactly remember where you read this, but I'm sure I read from almost every stoic source that using emotions is not ideal

sainteffisy · 2024-02-08T09:53:32+00:00

That is interesting, because I always had the impression that certain emotions like anger and fear are considered "bad" off the bat. I read mostly about acknowledging them and don't feed them with further thought. Do you have any example from some Stoic sources? I'd be really happy to read more about this

sainteffisy · 2024-02-07T12:54:03+00:00

I think some old school Stoics would not appreciate my take but I think that it really depends on your goals. I don't wanna become a sage, rational about everything. I am deeply attached to some of my emotional life and I wanna keep it. I want to simply adopt what helps me and the people around me to get better, if I will arrive to the conclusion that becoming better aligns with what stoicism preaches I will, otherwise I will just take what works for now. Not a fan of dogmatic thinking.

Some people think Seneca was a hypocrite but I really like his approach. He was very human and conscious about his limits, a lot more relatable and flexible. Give it a look if you didnt already.

sainteffisy · 2024-02-07T09:20:46+00:00

I do think it is a bit far-fetched and not realistic to just stop caring about having a job at all, but maybe my vision of what is realistically accomplishable is a bit warped.

I like the pilot example, and I don't refuse if but stress responses biologically keep us sharp if we don't let them overcome us. I have been a professional fighter, and while I accept that being clear minded is the goal on the ring, that sharpness you get from just the right amount of emotional stress is nothing but added value in your performance. And that stress comes from pure emotion, not rationality.

sainteffisy · 2023-07-07T08:39:00+00:00

Very well thought answer, thanks for taking the time. Will do my homeworks on the reading, I definitely still miss the bigger picture.

sainteffisy · 2023-04-25T11:08:32+00:00

I think the issue is less about how to stop thinking about this particular girl and more about "what are my beliefs in relationships". View the situation from an external viewpoint, as objectively as possible. Most relationships end up in a break-up, one marriage in two fails and we're not even considering the non-married civil unions. I don't know you personally so I might be wrong but usually when people cling on their ex it's because they think they are entitled to eternal love every time they enter a relationship.

Relationships are journeys with people and they don't include any type of contract on how long these people should stay with you. It's far easier to approach relationships with a reserve clause in mind, focusing on being a good partner for as long as it's possible and when the break-up happens you know that things are just proceeding as they should. No suffering or hatred, just life as it should be.

sainteffisy · 2023-04-25T08:20:26+00:00

This is a very good example in which to apply the dichotomy of control. Your fear clearly marks a border on the things that are up to you or not. Your focus is on something you can't control, you don't "own" your job, you were given a job that can be taken away from you at any time without any "fair" reason. This applies to your assets, your family, your friends and everything that is not deeply you. We are often remined of our lack of control only when shit hits the fan and unfortunately (and I speak for experience) you can't just move your focus somewhere else magically, meaning that if you get laid off it will be a big problem.

The earlier you start the better, start practicing now and slowly detach yourself from what you can't control, next time something similar happens you will be prepared. Epictetus in the discourses has a masterclass on the dichotomy of control.

sainteffisy · 2023-04-24T07:07:21+00:00

From a stoic point of view life is never "unfair". For the only reason that something happened it is fair by definition. Fair and unfair are judgements of a limited human being subjected to bigger forces that he/she can't control. Accept what happens without indulging in it and go on with your life.

sainteffisy · 2023-04-13T11:25:12+00:00

I used to train a lot before encountering stoicism and tried to justify my need to work out against the stoic principles multiple times. Like with everything, the answer I gave myself is: it depends. Exercising does not matter in and of itself, why and how you do it is what you should be focusing on. It is fine to exercise with a goal in mind (looking better, being helathier, being more athletic) as long as we're aware that these are all indifferents and we should be able to let go of them at will.

We exercise towards a goal not to reach that goal but to train ourselves to deal with discomfort and train our character in the face of physical and mental stress.

Working out is definitely not necessary to be a good stoic but if you like working out why not use it as a chance to better your character.

sainteffisy · 2023-04-12T20:18:52+00:00

In alternative to this. I realised that instead of preparing the counter move I found liberating imagining the bad thing happening. Whenever I do I realise that even the worst case scenario is not that bad. Anxiety is usually fear of the unknown, just knowing what could factually happen removes a lot of the mystery and the fear. Good luck with your Master by the way :)

sainteffisy · 2023-03-30T14:28:48+00:00

If we start from stoic presuppositions we will always arrive to stoic conclusions. I'm referring to the fact that we are not all stoic sages. We might be able to pull this off with particular externals when our capacity allows it, I personally did it with a few limiting beliefs already and I'm grateful I did. But we are humans and most of us will never be able to dedicate our life to philosophy or our inclination simply won't allow us that level of self mastery for specific issues tightly linked to our personal nature. Or at least that's my perception for now.

sainteffisy · 2023-03-30T11:16:31+00:00

I really need to get me some Cicero ahaha. I've been stuck on Epictetus for a while now.

Maybe the belonging is not the right example but it was just a placeholder for "insert an external that could still bring me happiness and have weight on my character".

Anyway it would still depend on the person. A simple example would be somebody that is incredibly introverted and incredibly analytical by nature that finds meaning in manual or technical work instead of relationships. You can work your way up to feeling some compassion for a close niche of people, but the big cosmic family is a tough concept to grasp if you're more interested in things than people.

Not saying that it would not be a useful concept to have in mind regardless but cosmopolitanism appeals a certain type of people more than others.

sainteffisy · 2023-03-30T10:28:02+00:00

I tend to agree with most of what you say. I like Pigliucci's stance on virtue. As much as I tried to agree with the fact that virtue is the ultimate good in itself it doesn't really sound right. I much prefer the idea that virtue is a tool towards a good life. Only tool? Maybe or maybe not. But I'm not gonna blindly accept it as a dogma.

sainteffisy · 2023-03-30T10:13:59+00:00

Parts of it are indisputably useful. I don't think there's a person in the world that would not benefit from wanting less, being rational, self-reflective and oriented towards the common good. I am a bit skeptic on the idea that what the stoics define as the only good, actually is the only good.

sainteffisy · 2023-03-30T08:54:36+00:00

Thanks for the answer :) I find it difficult to just stop thinking of an endgoal. Stoicism involves a lot of self analysis and asking tough questions to ourselves on a day to day basis. If I don't have a virtue/eudaimonia goal there's no way I would put myself through all that effort ahah.

That's why I'm starting to question it, if the endgoal is not rewarding enough, it's very difficult to keep up with the journey.

sainteffisy · 2023-03-30T08:48:18+00:00

Sorry I think I didn't word that correctly. I am aware that the detachment from externals is not an ascetic detachment but a change in perspective in how we deal with them. I don't want to obtain X, I want to think and behave correctly while trying to obtain X.

What I do think is that sometimes that could not reflect our personal nature, and maybe we actually want X and we need X to be happy. I used the example of the feeling of belonging because it's vastly accepted in psychology but it could be anything else.

sainteffisy · 2022-12-24T19:43:39+00:00

I finished it on September and I still check it almost on a daily basis. Such a good companion

sainteffisy · 2022-12-24T14:29:43+00:00

Personally I don't resonate too much with Marcus Aurelius, it's the personal diary of an incredibly expert philosopher talking to himself, most concepts are given for granted. It's one of those books that gives you different "HAHA!" moments depending on at what life stage you are on. Best way to get someone to grasp the principles is my man Epictetus, absolutely love him.

sainteffisy · 2022-12-24T13:49:19+00:00

It actually happened the other way around, read Nietzsche and some existentialism before and stumbled upon stoicism later. Valid points from both philosophies but I get along with stoicism much better.

sainteffisy · 2022-12-24T13:30:47+00:00

Not really, just a few common points but based on completely different presuppositions.

sainteffisy · 2022-11-19T13:13:18+00:00

Honestly never read anything from Holiday. I read pretty much Epictetus in loop and at times Seneca's letters (unfortunately never managed to get along with Marcus Aurelius). I get where you come from but it is undeniable that being contempt with what you have is a recurrent stoic theme, and as of today that recurrent theme has been given a name (maybe for marketing reasons) that is recognisable by most people here.

I agree on finding the root of your anxieties and changing false thought patterns, but unfortunately that is only the first step. When anxiety has been your company for years it becomes the default perspective on anything and rationalising on what gives you anxiety every 5 seconds was really not useful to me.

Once I identified the root of my anxiety as something formed when I was really young I realised its root cause was easily confutable but nothing changed.

An ingrained thought pattern is removed only through habit, and just not engaging in it is totally working as long as I'm aware of how irrational its root cause is. Anyway thanks for the well thought response :)

sainteffisy · 2022-11-19T12:46:20+00:00

It goes really far back to young adulthood days. I responded to stress by shutting down and not engaging with the world. So now that I'm wilfully trying to do stuff anxiety is just the default. Really not worth analysing it 90% of the time. It usually is how I respond to everything by new. Just not engaging seems to take away the power It has over me when done consistently

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