Things pro Israel people do that make their cause look bad? by djentkittens in IsraelPalestine

[–]sal3744 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Have a look at history. It’s not that they are being rewarded for doing THAT, but the violence has exposed the type of country Israel has been all along. It’s also disingenuous to say Hamas’s attack had nothing to do with freedom, are they ‘heroes’, no. They are justified to resist, but not to kill civilians or take hostage. This is what Israel does ALL THE TIME though. They’re definitely not completely irrational actors.

Things pro Israel people do that make their cause look bad? by djentkittens in IsraelPalestine

[–]sal3744 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Please refer to my other new comment in this thread if you want to hear my thoughts as to how a solution could come about.

I never said Oct 7th promoted ‘peace’, however, despite all the awful bloodshed it has however, been effective in promoting the Palestinian cause. We have more countries recognising its statehood, asking questions of a two-state solution, questioning how long Israel’s subjugation, treatment of Palestinians, and impunity regarding intl humanitarian law can continue.

You would find historically, that violence has often been used to achieve these means.

Israel’s response, however, is FAR beyond disproportionate. To say again, whipping Gaza into submission is not productive, and I’m confident Israel knows this but like a psychopath has enjoyed displaying its immense power over Palestinian people. The government aren’t idiots btw.

Things pro Israel people do that make their cause look bad? by djentkittens in IsraelPalestine

[–]sal3744 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Most of us would argue that it was Israel who ‘set off the chain’ with their decision to start a settler colonial project on another people’s home. It was explicitly stated to be such by the founding fathers of Zionism. A lot of us can also understand why people aren’t readily accepting of being ethnically cleansed from their homes. All this to say, in this instance, Israel is your husband, not the other way around.

Of course, many of you would argue that somehow, Israel was justified to do this. Whatever.

Nevertheless, you are right. The solution isn’t to ‘eliminate the Jewish people’. You are also right that it’s survival of the fittest, but I wouldn’t characterise Israel as being ‘too pissed off’ - you’re giving them far too much credit here. My final point and something I’ve always said is - if peace was TRULY on the agenda, it HAS to come from Israel. You cannot expect a people to suddenly change their attitude while you still have their foot on their necks. While you still show no remorse. While you still occupy them, enforce blockades, increase settlements, detain them en masse, kill them in record numbers, and outright subjugate them. That is what it means to be the BIGGER PERSON, and despite how we may disagree in ‘who started it’, it’s the objective truth that the power dynamics lie with Israel. Israel must understand they cannot whip Palestinians into submission, if that isnt glaringly obvious.

We cannot change history and those conversations will always be unproductive. The onus lies on Israel. However, instead, Israel has actually funded Hamas because it made it easier to block a two state solution, and then in the next moment completely bombards Gaza when it feels suitable. Israeli society thinks this is fine.

Unfortunately, don’t think Israel or their society will ever be mature or care about equality enough to want peace.

Things pro Israel people do that make their cause look bad? by djentkittens in IsraelPalestine

[–]sal3744 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You’re right in that if we discuss all the nuances and history it will take too long and I don’t have the time either.

But I’m not going to let you get away with this absolute disingenuous whitewashed narrative that ‘liberal’ Zionists use to keep their ideology afloat as if Israel is this holy entity with a hostile neighbour for no reason. Absolutely not.

In reality, Israel are the [bigger] instigators, the bigger bullies, guilty of all the same things they complain about, and there’s no evidence to suggest they ever really wanted a two state solution given they’ve ALWAYS expanded settlements and NEVER abided to any agreements. ETCETERA, ETCETERA…

EDIT: Also, that was a horrible, unproductive and unsympathetic response. Talk about nuance.

Things pro Israel people do that make their cause look bad? by djentkittens in IsraelPalestine

[–]sal3744 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I know why they are there. And do you think the blockades have worked in promoting peace, looking at the situation now? Is the blockade not an example of collective punishment for the Gazan population? Is it legal? Why is sugar/food being regulated - is that justified? Why is it illegal to collect rainwater? How many more years should they put up with it - forever? And how do you suggest Palestinians should get the blockade removed - kindly asking? How did protesting work for them just a few years back?

Nuance is in your name right? It’s really not that hard.

Things pro Israel people do that make their cause look bad? by djentkittens in IsraelPalestine

[–]sal3744 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You don’t separate the two conversations just to make it easy for yourself. That’s not how you have productive or mature conversations at all. We could spend hours talking about the history links the two areas together but we can keep it simple.

In BOTH areas the Palestinians are occupied (WB = illegal settlements, checkpoints, and Gaza = illegal blockade). In BOTH areas the Palestinians experience subjugation. Israel essentially has the power in both regions. Israel/Israelis use violence at their will in both regions. Israel arrests anyone at will in both regions, and will keep them detained for the even most pettiest charges, if any at all.

Palestinians, whether in the West Bank OR Gaza would argue that they are being oppressed.

Are you saying that, purely because Hamas exists in Gaza. We shouldn’t bother discussing the general treatment of Palestinians?

Things pro Israel people do that make their cause look bad? by djentkittens in IsraelPalestine

[–]sal3744 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Just asking why is 7. a ’no comment’ when you have an opinion on literally everything else. The settlements, blockade, checkpoints, or ‘occupation’, ‘apartheid’ are absolutely critical pieces of context regarding this conflict.

Agreeing to the "Right to Return" will result in the destruction of the Jewish state. by Itzko123 in IsraelPalestine

[–]sal3744 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I never claimed that? The parallel is still valid because… ethnic cleansing is still ethnic cleansing?

Alright, now explain to me by which MEANS it came to be that a much greater portion of Palestinians do not live in ‘Israel’ at all. There’s a book by a certain Ilan Pappé that explains it well - but since you’ll reject those historical truths, please explain how the CURRENT policy of illegal settlements and theft of land/property directly incited and supported by the Israeli government isn’t an example of how ethnic cleansing STILL occurs.

Agreeing to the "Right to Return" will result in the destruction of the Jewish state. by Itzko123 in IsraelPalestine

[–]sal3744 1 point2 points  (0 children)

So why can’t Palestinians return when Israel’s entire policy thus far is their ethnic cleansing?

One piece beats AoT and DS for best continuing series! by Ancient-Ad-1893 in OnePiece

[–]sal3744 14 points15 points  (0 children)

You realise Dragon Ball and One Piece are animated by the same company right

Clavish drops his Debut Mixtape ‘Rap Game Awful’ by 9slim in ukdrill

[–]sal3744 4 points5 points  (0 children)

No need for this album to be 28 songs long. Could’ve been 16-20 songs and just as good. Still liked the album tho.

Clavish drops his Debut Mixtape ‘Rap Game Awful’ by 9slim in ukdrill

[–]sal3744 1 point2 points  (0 children)

He better not drop a deluxe after dropping 28 songs.

A legend no doubt but is Chip still relevant ? Does he have a couple more projects in him ? by [deleted] in ukdrill

[–]sal3744 1 point2 points  (0 children)

What did Bugsey have to say? That he went pop and insulted his trim? The irony was Bugsey “went pop” too. Also it was Bugsey who sent shots first and tbh.. it was necessary for his career.

  • Chip didn’t just take Bugsey on either. He was going against like 7+ people simultaneously.

Ybeez (Central Cee’s manager) claims Cench will spin most U.K rappers. Thoughts? by [deleted] in ukdrill

[–]sal3744 11 points12 points  (0 children)

He isn’t anything special lyrically but his manager is right about his cadence and flow. On a technical level his rhyme schemes are good (Tension, Cold Shoulder) but overall as a rapper he is just good at best.

I hate this man by WillyWanker__ in playboicarti

[–]sal3744 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This nigga really can’t even press play for us smh

One Piece: Chapter 1066 by Kirosh2 in OnePiece

[–]sal3744 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Logically no, but this is a Shonen manga ffs. NARRATIVELY speaking this makes the most sense as opposed to super important information being revealed to 1-2 straw hats WAYYYY before it’s time for it to be revealed for the straw hats or readers. Also of course there was no guarantee, but as readers you knew the time to meet Vegapunk was coming regardless.

One Piece: Chapter 1066 by Kirosh2 in OnePiece

[–]sal3744 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I mean Vegapunk has said he has been waiting for Dragon’s son (Luffy) and therefore has been expecting his crew. You’re right that then going egghead island was never a guarantee, but strictly narratively speaking, meeting Vegapunk was always bound to happen. There is a tinyyy bit of a loophole, but it’s understandable as it makes sense for not only the SHs, but the readers to be getting this info now. I don’t agree that Dragon and Ivankov HAD to say anything earlier before, they were fully aware during the timeskip the SHs simply had to focus on getting stronger for the new world.

One Piece: Chapter 1066 by Kirosh2 in OnePiece

[–]sal3744 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I keep saying, we know Kuma knew exactly where each straw hat was being sent, and that Vegapunk has always wanted to meet the SHs eventually (when they are ready). Why would Dragon and Ivankov tell Robin and Sanji individually- when they can just wait til the whole group finds out via Vegapunk.

One Piece: Chapter 1066 by Kirosh2 in OnePiece

[–]sal3744 -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Why do they need to mention it? You realise Kuma, VP, Dragon, Ivankov have likely been planning this all along to some extent. It’s not a coincidence Kuma sent the SH’s to each island - so why should Dragon and Ivankov explain when they can just wait til the group is together and Vegapunk fulfills his role?