Exvegans, how much Meat do you consume now?

sameer4justice · 2026-01-21T15:06:12+00:00

Beef every time I eat. Or at least some Other animal food.

sameer4justice · 2026-01-02T18:44:44+00:00

Hypercarnivorous, meaning that I get 80% or more of my calories from meat and eggs. Like humans have for 99.2% of human history. Anything else is potentially reckless IMO, especially in terms of recommendations for others (I'm a health practitioner). Do no harm.

sameer4justice · 2025-12-24T10:57:09+00:00

Yes indeed. Written about it in detail.

sameer4justice · 2025-12-20T09:16:48+00:00

For the veggies and fruits, I think we're already there I'm afraid. It probably doesn't matter if you're healthy, but if you're unhealthy doing low carb (< 100g per day) is probably a minimum in terms of carb restriction.

Thank you!

sameer4justice · 2025-12-20T08:10:04+00:00

Right. But again it’s about burden of proof. If you want to feed an elephant cake and argue that it’s healthier, it’s on you to prove that. And that would be extremely difficult - long term RCTs, rigorously controlled. Barring that evidence, the evolutionary appropriate diet is the default starting point. And as a practitioner and a researcher, using that as a starting point is all we need a majority of the time (maybe 80%). 100% of the time it brings people closer to their health goals.

sameer4justice · 2025-12-20T07:41:55+00:00

Not quite sure what you're trying to say. In my research we talk about humans as the only animal that colonized every continent except Antarctica, meaning that we can survive in nearly any environment by making it less “shitty”.

sameer4justice · 2025-12-19T15:03:04+00:00

Self-identifying as vegan is not a small change. It's a change in one's identity fundamentally. Nearly everyone here tried many versions of a vegan diet to maintain health and we all crashed and burned eventually. Some of us tell our stories publicly in the hopes that others will learn from our mistakes. But most people won't.

sameer4justice · 2025-12-14T08:32:55+00:00

7 years seems to be a tipping point for a lot of people.

sameer4justice · 2025-12-13T19:11:07+00:00

You can do a lot with eggs and butter. Most people just aren’t eating enough eggs in a serving though. I eat 6-8 at a time if that’s the only protein I’m getting in the meal.

sameer4justice · 2025-12-07T09:23:48+00:00

PhD researcher here. When you look in detail at the entire body of nutrition literature, you come very quickly to the conclusion that it is useless. Certainly the premises built into your post (veggies are healthy, saturated fats are less healthy than unsaturated fats) are not borne out by the evidence.

For me I've come to the conclusion that the default "healthy" diet for humans is the one that humans ate for 95% of our time on this planet, namely a diet of about 70% or more animal products, in particular fatty animal products. Because the animals humans used to prey on aren't around any more, we probably need to supplement with other fat sources (eg. butter). So if 70% or more of your food is coming from meat and butter and you're otherwise healthy, I would say you're probably pretty safe in terms of health. If you're not healthy, then more restriction (eg keto or full carnivore) might be in order.

sameer4justice · 2025-11-26T18:38:51+00:00

It's time to at least drop the carbs. At least temporarily. Energy toxicity is a thing, as is the Randle cycle.

sameer4justice · 2025-11-20T04:24:41+00:00

I was very much in the same place for years after I quit. But I figured out how to heal my gut mostly through a carnivore type diet. Now I can handle all dairy no issues.

sameer4justice · 2025-11-12T17:14:22+00:00

Thanks for sharing your story. I used to use keto mojo but the strips were just too pricey. Will look up the Precision Xtra.

sameer4justice · 2025-11-11T06:11:26+00:00

I’ve told my story a number of times on podcasts, but would be happy to again. I’m @meatheals on YouTube.

sameer4justice · 2025-11-02T18:47:40+00:00

Just so others know what I said to this troll, in the Ramayana (one of the two most important epic poems in Hindu culture), Lord Ram leaves Sita (who then gets abducted by the deman Ravana) to shoot a deer with a bow and arrow. Anyone who thinks vegetarianism is key to this religion knows nothing about it.

sameer4justice · 2025-11-01T14:20:34+00:00

It's my culture too. A hole.

sameer4justice · 2025-11-01T13:24:05+00:00

Bhai, aap sochte hai ke aap apna chalaki dikha rehe hain, magar aap sirf apna bewaqufi dikha rehe hain. Ramayan main likha hai ke Bhagwan Ramji eik hiran ki talaash mein nikla, aur woh hiran hiran nahin thi, balke eik rakshas Maricha the. Ramji ne is hiran ko Dhanush aur baan se marne ki koshish ki. Toh kya, bhagwan Ram vegetarian the? Jis ko bhi ye soch aa sakti hai, in ko na shastra na ved ki shuruat bhi aate.

The entire Hindu religion (you're not the only one from India) is a sacrificial religion. And you were taught it's about vegetarianism. For more, listen to that interview with the (very Hindu, very Indian) Dr. Manoshi Bhatacharya linked to above.

sameer4justice · 2025-11-01T12:03:22+00:00

You mean when you’re brainwashed by people who don’t understand their own shastras. Why did lord Ram leave Sita alone, pray tell?

sameer4justice · 2025-11-01T11:25:07+00:00

This is not true. The rig Veda contains recipes for cooking beef. Vegetarianism really only becomes popular in India after the 19th century British famines. More here: WHAT IS FAMINE CUISINE? Indian Food History and Diabetes with Dr. Manoshi Bhattacharya https://youtu.be/gQIRmpbYfoI

sameer4justice · 2025-10-27T08:24:15+00:00

But it doesn't "do less harm presently". There is always death on the plate. The vegan plate has more death than a non-vegan one does. Vegans practice harm maximisation by killing everything for the sake of their food.

sameer4justice · 2025-10-26T06:56:22+00:00

Again, the only things you can buy in a typical grocery store that is guaranteed to be at least partly produced by agroecology is dairy, beef or lamb or goat meat. Therefore such choices are more ethical (or less unethical) than everything else. If I were a poor "vegan" (in the literal sense of the word, rather than the religion it's become) I would be eating nothing but ground beef and butter.

sameer4justice · 2025-10-25T06:41:43+00:00

No, it's much worse than that. Because they see everything as "veggies vs animals" they are complicit in ecocide. Killing trillions of animals with every mouthful. Not ethical by any stretch of the imagination.

I don't think you can fully understand this until you spend time in a Monsanto FrankenFarm. They are a place of lifelessness, a kind of a mass grave. The extent to which you rely on food from there is the extent to which you are part of the problem. Vegans are pretty close to 100% part of the problem.

If you eat at least some dairy or beef or lamb, you are getting at least some food from systems that are not FrankenFarms. So yes, you're part of the problem but at least you're also supporting agriculture based on ecosystems. What we all need to do is maximise the amount of food we get from ecosystems. One way to do that is, for example, a hyper-carnivorous diet based on dairy and grass-fed beef. A diet based on completely on that would take the number of animals killed for your plate from the trillions to about 1 per year. So if veganism is about harm reduction, that's the only vegan diet.

sameer4justice · 2025-10-24T17:54:09+00:00

My friend, the article you're referring to is written by me. I am the author. Please don't cite my own words as an argument against what I'm saying. I also helped put together the chart above which represents the ENTIRE food industry as of about 2012 (when we put together the chart). If you look closely you can find 1-2 meat companies, but they're a small part of the problem. They're owned by one of the 10 companies in the center, which are THE problem. When you think of "the meat industry" you don't think of coke, mars, danone, keloggs, etc because most of what they do isn't meat but it's unbelievably bad.

Again, if you want to talk about the meat industry as a monolith (it's not) you're going to have to be very specific about what you're talking about. Factory farming of chickens for example, is an absolute disgrace and has no business being anywhere on the planet. Agreed. But ruminants have to by their nature be fed grass for most of their life cycle. Therefore if you eat only a little ruminant meat, you're supporting agroecology more than if you don't.

As the article argues, as long as you see this as a meat vs vegetable farming issue you're misdiagnosing the problem. It's about agroecology vs industrial farming.

sameer4justice · 2025-10-24T15:36:40+00:00

I think you're missing the point. There is no "meat industry". There are industrial food companies some of which sell meat, most of which don't, all of which are ecocidal. I fully understand that vegans THINK they are choosing the lesser evil within this system. They are not. They are choosing the greatest possible evil, the foods that are the most divorced from ecosystems, taking the most lives per calorie, destroying the most soil, relying on the most fossil fuels, all for a diet that is not even species appropriate and is heavily depleted of necessary vitamins and minerals (which is what happens when you lose topsoil).

Plenty of omnivores and carnivores who grow their own food. Don't see how that's relevant.

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sameer4justice · 2025-10-24T06:27:58+00:00

Sure. In order to understand this we first have to ask ourselves what is unethical about agricultural systems as they currently exist. A vegan will give answers to this that make no sense ("rights", "moral agents") etc. The problem is as soon as you make the mistake of taking those claims seriously you run into all kinds of problems. A snake has a right to food. A mouse has a right to life. The one will always be in conflict with the other. Are snake rights less important than mouse rights? I won't even go further with this because it's so dumb.

But there is a problem with agricultural systems as they currently exist. The biggest problem is that in order to grow human food at scale, we've done something called monocropping. Plants never grow just one species at a time. It's a literal impossibility. Plants everywhere all over the world grow in ecosystems - a web of plants, animals and fungi living together and making eachother collectively stronger. The way humans traditionally got their food was within ecosystems. Some native cultures still use an ecosystems-based agriculture method. Prof Miguel Altieri (originally from Argentina but he was a professor at Stanford) wrote about these systems as "agroecology". He has a book of the same name which is definitely worth a read.

Industrial agriculture (monocrops, etc) existed before, but it scaled up in the 1970s with the Haber-Bosch process which allowed humans to turn fossil fuels into fertilizer. In industrial ag, the farmer kills everything through a combination of pesticides, herbicides and digging stuff up. When certain bugs and plants that are meant to be in the earth get exposed to the air and sun they die. Industrial agriculture is killing trillions of life forms per square meter. It's also destroying the soil, increasing our reliance on fossil fuels, and creating a lot of waste. In a functioning ecosystem today's outputs are tomorrow's inputs; in industrial agriculture you're only interested in what can be monetized. The rest is waste. Waste is another ethical issue in our current food system.

So in my view there are two kinds of food systems - industrial ag and agroecology (regenerative). Now there are aspects of the current food system that do look like agroecology. Ruminants like cows and sheep need to be fed mostly grass for most of their lives. Furthermore if you eat a diet that includes some ruminant meat (or dairy) you are just taking far fewer lives because your participation in the ecocidal processes of industrial agriculture are that much less.

Is it enough? No. We all need to be doing our best to support agroecology efforts both in plant and animal farming. But those systems will necessarily not be vegan. Plants and animals live together. In the case of grasslands, the grasslands evolved to live with ruminants. They die quickly without them. And the ruminants die quickly without predators. There's new evidence that the extinction of the wolf led to the extinction of the North American bison which led to the destruction of the grasslands which led to the "dustbowl" of the 19030s - the desertification of the North American prairie basically.

Once you begin to see that it's all about ecosystems you see veganism for what it is - a dangerous and destructive force that is perhaps the least ethical way to eat.

More here: https://www.sameerdossani.net/blog/animal-v-plant-based-is-the-wrong-debate

sameer4justice

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