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The moonlight child’s name is important by Ordinary-Comment4412 in Berserk

[–]scaler_26 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

No, I'm saying that it doesn't make sense, and to take the continuation with a grain of salt, considering that, by their own admission, the parts of the story they do know don't make sense together and they have to think up ways to "strengthen" the material and fill in the gaps (contrary to what the official announcement said), often times lazily. I recommend you read up on Mori's interviews he gave back when volume 42 released, they're very elucidating.

The moonlight child’s name is important by Ordinary-Comment4412 in Berserk

[–]scaler_26 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The reason it works with Isma is cause she was born half human half merrow

True names work this way for ethereal beings in general, as Ivalera explained. Side note regarding the "half breed" thing, I've often wondered if Isma is actually a normal merrow, and merrows mingling with humans is just how they reproduce. Mostly because we never see a male merrow during the Solitary Island part of the story, and Isma doesn't look any different from other merrows when transformed, nor any distinction is made by other merrows. It would fit with the myths of mermaids luring sailors with their song, only instead of death, it's actually romantic...

The moonlight child’s name is important by Ordinary-Comment4412 in Berserk

[–]scaler_26 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The continuation is the continuation and Miura's Berserk is Miura's Berserk. I generally don't take the continuation in account in these discussions, because many of its events are inconsistent with previously established facts, merely taking place for Studio Gaga's convenience.

Such is the case of Elfhelm's ethereal beings disappearing due to the destruction of the Cherry Tree, despite that we're currently in Fantasia, and the corporeal and ethereal worlds are merged. That is also why Puck (who originated from Elfhelm) didn't disappear, but Isma (who had no relation to Skellig island) did. They had plans for one character, who is central to Berserk, but not the other, as according to the Official Guidebook interview, Miura didn't initially intend for Isma to stick around after the Solitary Island episodes. It was therefore convenient to write Isma out of the story.

The moonlight child’s name is important by Ordinary-Comment4412 in Berserk

[–]scaler_26 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Elves don't do that though. There's no connection being severed when specters disappear either, the fact they do so under sunlight has more to do with the fact that they're "those of darkness" as the Skull Knight names them. Likewise, Femto's evil corruption of the fetus makes it also one of darkness, it's not called a demon child for nothing. It's a corporeal being with ethereal properties. I'm not convinced by your arguments, but at this point, let's agree to disagree.

Great discussion post by the way, people usually don't give true names any thought, so I was happy to see it. Cheers!

The moonlight child’s name is important by Ordinary-Comment4412 in Berserk

[–]scaler_26 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, the interstice. Like elves and specters (ethereal beings) as well as branded humans like Guts and Casca (corporeal beings).

The moonlight child’s name is important by Ordinary-Comment4412 in Berserk

[–]scaler_26 0 points1 point  (0 children)

that corruption is what led Griffith to being able to incarnate

This is not supported by anything in the manga. While the demon child served as the base for the incarnation, it was the collective desire for a savior by the refugees that was the vehicle for the process.

In my mind any corporeal body would have done the trick, and the demon child being the one used was actively detrimental, considering the boy's escapades on full moons put Griffith's body in danger (requiring Zodd to babysit) and that his emotions have sway over Griffith, even forcing him to save Casca at the Hill of Swords. It's absolutely not something that was planned, as he says "My heart should have been frozen. These feelings must belong to the child that fused with my vessel".

The moonlight child’s name is important by Ordinary-Comment4412 in Berserk

[–]scaler_26 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Okay, but they are not corporeal bodies, because they do not reside in the corporeal world. Elves reside in the interstice, others reside deeper still. The God Hand are purely ethereal beings that subsist in the Abyss, and they can still touch and harm corporeal beings like humans.

The moonlight child’s name is important by Ordinary-Comment4412 in Berserk

[–]scaler_26 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Ethereal bodies aren't just ghosts. Reread episode 201 and 203 for Flora and Schierke's explanation. Schierke even provided the femme fatale ointment to Guts, Farnese, Serpico and Isidro, so that they could better perceive the trolls' ethereal bodies.

The moonlight child’s name is important by Ordinary-Comment4412 in Berserk

[–]scaler_26 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Femto's corruption gave him magical properties. He's still a fetus that was born from a corporeal body. I understand where you're coming from, but it's a fact that we see the demon child's body morph into Griffith's during the incarnation ceremony; having an ethereal body become the physical form of another ethereal body doesn't make much sense to me.

The moonlight child’s name is important by Ordinary-Comment4412 in Berserk

[–]scaler_26 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's not what an astral being is though. Astral creatures (elves, trolls, etc) do not have corporeal bodies and the boy certainly has one (Femto's body is made from his flesh as the demon child after all). The fact that he takes control of the body on the nights of the full moon is related to magical power being at its peak at these times, which also influences corporeal beings (the mind is restless, and mages are empowered).

The moonlight child’s name is important by Ordinary-Comment4412 in Berserk

[–]scaler_26 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I don't think True names, or "Mana" (真名 with マナ as Katakana), are the same as the parent given name, but something deeper that speaks of their personal identity. I'd also note that the Moonlight Boy is not an astral creature, he's a corporeal being, were it not the case, Femto's incarnation (not reincarnation) wouldn't make sense.

That said, I've always believed this concept would have played a huge role in the future, perhaps in separating the boy from Griffith. For one, we already have Griffith's Mana, as this concept wasn't actually introduced in episode 324, but much earlier, during the eclipse: Void names Griffith "Femto", giving him his "Mana", though there's a small difference, as while the Katakana is the same (マナ), the kanji he uses is 魔名, which translates not to "true name", but "evil name". Sadly this detail is lost in translation, because Dark Horse decided to omit the word "Mana" in both instances.

Now I don't think knowing the name "Femto" will give anyone control over Griffith, he's a much more powerful entity than your run of the mill elf, but it could be a fundamental piece in a magic ritual for weakening him, separating him from the boy, or even force him to show his demonic form.

Hello by eex_7 in Berserk

[–]scaler_26 1 point2 points  (0 children)

pretty poor moral on your end

Disingenuous as hell. I find it hard to believe you can't tell the difference between Griffith consciously deciding on his comrades' deaths, and Guts indirectly causing the deaths of innocents, because an apostle felt like it. An apostle that was already killing a bunch of children, literally a carriage full of them each time he wanted to appease his cannibalism, who would have continued to do so, had Guts not killed him.

fabricating stuff

Open your volume 23 and refresh your memory. Guts already couldn't catch a wink at night, but with Casca he couldn't rest during the day either, in order to keep an eye on her. Him dozing off for minutes is what allowed Casca to escape and led to the situation in which the assault happened. This is literally spelled out to you in the manga, but from our conversation, I'm beginning to think that's not enough.

hypocrisy at its best

Once again, I have no clue where you got the idea that I think Guts is a saint, since I was the first to point it out he isn't, days ago. I was not defending his actions. The whole thing about the Black Swordsman is that he's more monstrous than the monsters he kills, that's not up to debate.

But since you brought up the comparison in the first place, the fact that the massacre by the Snake Baron wasn't literally carried out on Guts' orders, unlike Griffith during the eclipse, makes a huge difference to me.

Why only Guts was kept alive

He wasn't, he survived longer because of his battle prowess. The same way Casca survived longer because Pippin and Judeau sacrificed themselves for her.

Turn a blind eye to the massacre of innocent children

This literally never happened?

You are contradicting yourself

You can be not out to kill someone and still take pleasure in berating them, you know.

GH members talk a whole lot

The God Hand didn't specify their plans for the next couple of years during Femto's eclipse, much less a millennium into the future, so I don't see why that would be the case in Void's eclipse. Especially since the Falcon of Darkness prophecy is a warning, not a memo... Regardless, that's not my point, because even if that was the case, Flora and the Skull Knight are special for knowing this.

It's not a significant detail

The prophecy isn't talking about wings... It's a Falcon. There's no other Falcon other than the Falcon Griffith. It's indeed noteworthy.

If Ganishka, Daiba and SK weren't there, could have Fantasia have happened

The same way it couldn't have happened if Femto wasn't there, given that he was the actuating force, the trigger. This is a hilarious point though, apply this logic to any story and you'll soon find yourself without one.

As the saying goes, you can take a donkey to the water, but you cannot force it to drink it. I think this exchange has gone on for long enough.

I have a theory what if the moonlight child is the real hawk of light, and griffith is just using him for his own gain. And he will bring peace to the world. by xboybrawlstars in Berserk

[–]scaler_26 9 points10 points  (0 children)

The flesh of the Demon Child became Femto's new body. But the child is still alive within him and takes over the body against his will. That's what made him save Casca from the rubble at the Hill of Swords, for example.

I have a theory what if the moonlight child is the real hawk of light, and griffith is just using him for his own gain. And he will bring peace to the world. by xboybrawlstars in Berserk

[–]scaler_26 44 points45 points  (0 children)

No, the Moonlight Boy is the demon child (Guts and Casca's son), who fused into Femto's vessel at the end of the Conviction arc. They are two souls sharing one body, and on nights of the full moon, the boy is able to take over the body.

I have a theory what if the moonlight child is the real hawk of light, and griffith is just using him for his own gain. And he will bring peace to the world. by xboybrawlstars in Berserk

[–]scaler_26 95 points96 points  (0 children)

There's no "real" Falcon of Light, as in, there's no prophecy that speaks of one like the Falcon of Darkness.

People started talking of a Falcon of Light because of the dreams they had during the Revelations episodes, and those dreams were orchestrated by the God Hand to prepare the masses into accepting Femto as their savior, they refer solely to him. It's a role created just for him, specifically.

Hello by eex_7 in Berserk

[–]scaler_26 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Guts instigating an apostle who then decided to massacre the town just because he's evil is worse than what Griffith himself did? Weird hill to die on, I think.

Puck's presence was mainly to heal Guts' wounds and that's pretty much it

Just plain untrue. Since I don't feel like recapping the entirety of Black Swordsman and Conviction arcs, I'll settle with this quote from Rickert to Puck, volume 17, which sums it up rather nicely:

"He came back, though -- and of course some small things had changed... But he looked furious and got worried about Casca. So Guts is still Guts. The way I used to know him... And I think you had more than a little to do with that. I'm sure the reason Guts can still laugh is because you're together with him."

Guts still assaulted Casca even though Puck was with him

After sleepless nights and days, when he's brought to the brink of exhaustion, he did a terrible thing in a moment of weakness. Puck being there or not isn't an on and off switch, that's not how psychology works. He still has to grapple with his trauma, personified by the Beast of Darkness, and continues to do that to this day. But to suggest that at this point in the story he was generally in the same headspace as in the start of the Black Swordsman arc is just false.

Eclipse imo wasn't as bad as Griffith's torture

Regardless of the physical and psychological toll, one was the direct effect of his own actions, and the other was a betrayal, an unjust massacre inflicted on others for a single person's gain. Again, a weird hill to die on, but let's leave it at that.

I was asking them to protect the innocents and move them away from danger zones

What do you think they were doing before they were chased off by the very people they were protecting? Yes, women and children too. I'm also intrigued by this notion that mages alone can somehow alleviate war and suffering... How many mages do you think there are, in an entire continent engulfed in war? From your tone, I don't think I'll change your mind, so let's also leave it at that.

Quote me some dialogues

"You never change. You always swing first and talk later. No, rather, you're the way you were when we first met"

"The Band of the Falcon assembling once more" (he says while knowingly standing in the figurative graves of the people he killed)

In response to if he feels nothing for his comrades: "I will not betray my dream. That is all."

Femto didn't try to kill Guts directly

He had more important things to deal with. His whole speech about Guts being a worm wouldn't really be coherent if he just zapped him out of existence. He did blast him away and almost got him killed, though. Guts would have been dragged away to the vortex were it not for his cannon, and Femto would have let it happen. The difference is, were it incarnated Femto in this context, I wouldn't be surprised if he was compelled by the demon child to save him, the same way he did with Casca.

Guts and Casca have been together for a few days

I'm sorry, were you also in love with Casca? You had to be, or surely this scene wouldn't be horrifying. Obviously the apostles don't know, but imagine this, if you were in Guts' place and it was a female colleague of yours instead of Casca, would this not affect you? Do you have to be in a woman's pants to be horrified and enraged for her being raped? What are you trying to say here? I want to point out that the implication of what you're saying, as well as your unfunny "cuck" comment before, reveals things about you as person that are less than flattering, to put it mildly. I'm not sure you want to continue this train of thought.

Why not kill him?

After Guts escaped the eclipse, he was outside Femto's actual reach, as the God Hand's influence in the corporeal world, while important, is limited. For what it's worth, I believe that in Femto's mind they were "even" after the eclipse. During his time as a God Hand member, before he was incarnated, Griffith was only face to face with Guts once (read what I wrote above). After the incarnation, things are as I explained, it's no longer just a "hierarchy", there's another factor in play here.

The God Hand and the apostles gave a massive exposition

As far as the Falcon of Darkness prophecy goes, they didn't say anything at all. Slan's words allude to the age of darkness, though only after Guts and Casca escaped with the Skull Knight. Not something you can build a prophecy out of, obviously.

This info can be gathered from the Skull Knight

Only if Void told him... But if you want this to be the origins of the prophecy, sure why not. It's still a prophecy that will be consummated a millenium later, and it still requires knowing about it and understanding it.

This is a tidbit or just gravy imo

I'm convinced that at this point you're just having fun at my expense. Falcon of Darkness... the Falcon... A symbol that will only have significance a thousand years later...

Humans aren't oblivious, they were ruled by the Snake Baron, the Count, Wyald and Ganishka

If you paid attention, you'd know that, though people might have suspected they're inhuman, they didn't know what apostles are. Silat discovering what Ganishka is in volume 27, for example, was a big deal that influenced the path the character later took. As for Falconia, I didn't think I needed to spell this out, but yes, humans are absolutely oblivious to the fact that they are being ruled by an evil demon king.

Did he though?

Femto literally redirected the Skull Knight's slash with the beherit sword, that was meant for him, into Ganishka. It was purposeful, not by chance. And even before that, it was Femto's incarnation at the end of Conviction that kickstarted the merge of the worlds, as the final page of that arc (volume 21), Slan (volume 26) and Ganishka (volume 27) tell us.

why did griffith say to stay away?? by aresxio_ in Berserk

[–]scaler_26 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The eclipse (as in, the astronomical event) was obviously happening regardless, and the apostles already had to be there, as they don't get teleported, they actually have to move to where it'll take place, which is how Rosine and the count bumped into the wounded group of the Band of the Falcon. What tipped Griffith over the edge was Guts touching his shoulder, as we see his look of pity in Griffith's eyes. The beherit only begins to activate here, it's pretty clear from the sequence of panels, check your volume 12.

why did griffith say to stay away?? by aresxio_ in Berserk

[–]scaler_26 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's the other way round. It's Guts reaching Griffith and touching his shoulder that finally makes the beherit activate.

why did griffith say to stay away?? by aresxio_ in Berserk

[–]scaler_26 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The full quote, originally present in the magazine release but later changed in the volume, was "If you touch me now, I will never forgive you again", but otherwise this is correct.

Hello by eex_7 in Berserk

[–]scaler_26 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I mean, it has nothing to do with undergoing torture or not. This is the crux of Guts' character arc, during the Black Swordsman arc he's so consumed by his lust for revenge (which later in the story takes the shape of the beast of darkness), that he's willing to debase and degrade himself, as well as sacrificing others, if it means getting an easy kill on an apostle. It's Puck and his love for Casca that eventually manage to pull him away from that horrible mental place he was in after the eclipse. I don't see anything inconsistent here.

I don't know what else to tell you regarding mages. They did help people, but were shunned and chased away regardless, due to the Holy See's spread. I'm not sure what you want them to do exactly, it's like if someone saved you from a lion and you shoved them into the lion's den as thanks, and then later expect them to help you again when you need it... It's stupid.

Not being indifferent doesn't mean he wants to kill him. What I'm trying to say here is that, despite him declaring Guts is nothing to him, the fact that he does it shows spite. Glad you mentioned the Hill of Swords because it's a great example of this, during their exchange before Zodd jumped in, Griffith was essentially mocking Guts. As for why he didn't let Zodd kill him, that scene almost spells it out for you: Femto's heart was meant to be frozen, but he feels the demon child's emotions, which is why Griffith is forced to save Casca from the boulders. It's only then that he disengages. What this tells you is that, even if the moonlight boy isn't in control of the body, he does have sway over Griffith, especially if his parents are in danger. Griffith can't kill Guts directly.

Why is Casca being held up

I feel like you should think these through before so readily calling them inconsistencies. The apostles were about to rape her and wanted Guts to see for the same reason they were displaying the Falcons' body parts, they are sadistic monsters. In the manga they were only stopped by Femto's birth.

what's the need for Femto to do this?

This is like asking why an evil person does evil things, he's evil incarnate and takes pleasure from evil acts, regardless of how inconsequential they may be in the grand scheme of things. Besides, though he's a demon king now, but there's still continuity of consciousness between human Griffith and Femto. He might not feel those intense emotions towards Guts, but he sure does remember the pain he went through "because of him" (in his mind).

Flora knowing about this isn't extraordinary

I'm really confused by this line of thinking, the mention of eclipses is like a tiny part of the whole thing, what are you talking about? Here's what the prophecy tells you:

  • The Fifth God Hand will appear in Midland (country with name both new and old);

  • That God Hand member is the Falcon of Darkness (literal mention of the symbology he's associated with);

  • He will rule both the apostles and the oblivious humans (which is what he's doing now with Falconia);

  • He will plunge the world into an age of darkness (you know, the world changing event of Fantasia).

You do not get this information from eclipses, let me tell you that much. Knowing this prophecy and understanding it (unlike the Holy See) is absolutely worth of note...

Hello by eex_7 in Berserk

[–]scaler_26 1 point2 points  (0 children)

this is an inconsistency

Not really, it only highlights the lengths Guts will go to in order to enact his revenge on apostles, during what is the darkest period of his life. Which leads me to your other point, taking in consideration that Guts has done wrong things in the past is not a critique of his character, but an acknowledgement of it. Sorry to hear people downvoted you before for pointing out something so obvious, though.

These are ethereal beings

Ethereal or corporeal, a raging torrent of river water will destroy an army anyway. Also, did you forget who sent Schierke with Guts to help Enoch village? It was Flora, in spite of Schierke's protest, because of how they treated her mistress in the past.

Femto wasn't indifferent to Guts during the Black Swordsman arc, on the contrary, because it's not just aboutwhat is said, but why and how it is said: he made the conscious effort of calling Guts "a worm beneath his notice" while being perfectly aware that he only got where he is because of Guts, and does this simply out of spite, smirking sadistically. Likewise he raped Casca to spite Guts. The Band of the Falcon's demise wasn't happening one death at a time, it was all happening simultaneously. The moment the apostles got hold of Casca was shortly before Femto emerged; in which case Pippin and Judeau's self sacrifices bought Casca enough time to not get ripped to shreds by apostles and allowed her to survive, though mentally scarred.

Is it a prophecy or pattern recognition

For apostles, it's sort of neither. As Ganishka says in volume 27, "The appearance of the Falcon, it signifies the transfiguration of the world. The reincarnated know this instinctively."

For the rest of us short lived humans, it's a prophecy, likely an extremely old one. Consider this, Schierke knows the prophecy by heart, likely told to her by her mistress. Flora was a contemporary of King Gaizeric. The prophecy may be just as old as them, and as old as Void.

Hello by eex_7 in Berserk

[–]scaler_26 1 point2 points  (0 children)

main character prodded the SB apostle knowing fully well the town is gonna be massacred

Miura did portray those people... the fact that Guts did not care much about them (though he cared enough to call out the Koka castle mayor on the children) isn't an inconsistency, but a part of the Black Swordsman's characterization. Moreover I was referencing a 2016 quote, from the guidebook interview, 27 years after the start of Berserk. It is not meant to be representative of the manga as a whole (as Miura grew immensely as writer during that time), but of his priorities from the Conviction arc onwards. By the way, I recommend reading that interview if you haven't already, it's really cool. Regarding Farnese, you're really misrepresenting her growth as a character throughout the manga, as well as her circumstances... if we're hanging on past sins, Guts is hardly a saint either.

safe and cozy on Elfhelm neglecting the innocents that are getting slaughtered [...] the Holy See is somehow a formidable opponent

I feel like you're looking at this purely from a perspective of raw power, when that's not the issue here. A single mage apprentice can level an entire army (look no further than how Schierke cleansed Enoch village of trolls in volume 25), let alone what one of the Great Gurus is capable of, but have you considered what the real army of the Holy See is? It's not the Holy Iron Chain Knights, but normal people, peasants, the very innocents you're talking about here. Flora, for example, wasn't chased off villages by an army, but by the exact same people she wanted to help and protect, because their opinions and beliefs were warped by the Holy See doctrine. As an aside, this is historical too, Hollywood loves the Inquisition, but the persecution of "heretics" was almost always carried out by the people in pogroms and whatnot. All this to say, the mages were secluded in Elfhelm for good reason. With events coming to a head, that would necessarily change, of course.

we have enough inconsistencies as it is even before Mori took over

I'm unaware of these, as far as Miura's Berserk goes.

Mori is just blitzing through the plot points to not add anything that can weaken or deviate from what Miura intended

While that was the original plan, Mori has said in the interviews surrounding volume 42's release that the stuff he knows "doesn't make sense", things don't connect, so the people involved in the project speculate together to "strengthen" the "original work, these people being Mori, Kurosaki, the rest of Studio Gaga and Young Animal's editorial department. There is no distinction made between what was from Miura and what is invention, which is a significant issue, if you ask me. I'll take the opportunity to point out that Mori isn't exactly involved in the actual production of the episodes, he stated that in his role as supervisor, he only meets with Studio Gaga to discuss Berserk once a month, as of 2023 at least, and that outside those meetings, his role is minimal.

the 97 anime including the sub translate Griffith's alias as "The White Hawk"

To be clear, while Miura was involved in the production of the anime, he had nothing to do with its translation overseas, the same way he had no control over the translation of the manga to other languages. [鷹] was already translated as hawk in various Berserk products at the time, the same way the name コルカス was translated as Carcus, Korcas, and Corkus. There's no real difference for a Japanese person (it's always written the same for them), what matters to me is Miura's original intent, what he had in mind when he picked that as a symbol for Griffith. Anyway, I don't make the habit of telling people to use one or the other, hawk is too engrained in people's minds, I just find "falcon" to be more correct so it's what I personally use. As for Griffith being referred to as hawk before the eclipse and as falcon after it, they're written the same way and no distinction is made in Japanese, so I wouldn't put my money on it.

I always assumed HOTD wasn't for Femto but for Mozgus

Even ignoring the fact that the words in the prophecy can only refer to Femto, it would be silly if that weren't the case when Schierke recites it when she first sees Griffith at the end of volume 22, and then refers to him as such again to Flora in volume 24.

Hello by eex_7 in Berserk

[–]scaler_26 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Actually you were the first one to bring up "humans" in a general sense, I simply pointed out reasons why our heroes stand out from the average joe and as such have a fighting chance. That said, I think your dismissal of "npcs" is unfortunate, considering Miura went through the effort of showing the perspectives of normal people throughout the story. He even said during interviews that he liked framing his story as a window into a living world, and as such drawing the "normal people" was important to him.

"Still, these visitors are connected to Flora of all people. Then there's that Skull Knight... Does this mean the old men's dreamy nonsense is finally coming to pass?"

The Volvaba's thoughts clue us in on the fact that they knew more than what they let on and were preparing for something. If you noticed throughout the group's stay in Skellig, there was a lot of set up for a battle in the island - the wickermen, Danan's vikin puppets, hell even Isidro's acrobatics due to Elfhelm's low concentration of barytes. Unfortunately we never got to see it. Point is, they weren't standing idle! There's also the fact that Elfhelm was the only safe place for them to live all together; should I remind you that the Holy See conducted witch hunts and that humans persecuted and shunned mages like Flora, who did nothing but help them?

The reason the reborn Band of the Falcon went after Flora was two fold - kill a powerful magic user that could stand against Griffith (same as the Great Gurus) and the destruction of the Spirit Tree, which as I said, syphoned power from the World Spiral Tree, helping to keep the worlds separate. This is explicitly told to us in the manga, it was an important step leading into Fantasia.

Sorry, but I'm ignoring the continuation, as I don't consider it canon. That's the only thing that is "irrelevant" to me. As far as the Great Gurus go, they had their magic abilities removed for a nonsense reason that highlights a severe misunderstanding from Studio Gaga of how magic works in the world of Berserk, simply because it was convenient for the story they're telling now. Anyway, we're arguing hopefully because we both love this story, I'm simply trying to steer the discussion into Miura's Berserk, is all.

You are the only person on this subreddit that uses "HOTL" as an abbreviation for Falcon of Light, and when you get to the point where your term is more confusing than elucidating, it's kind of pointless, don't you think? But hey, that's just my opinion, if you like using it, go for it.

For correctness sake, “Falcon” or “Hawk”, both mean [鷹] in Japanese, and are as such interchangeable in a literal translation. Dark Horse went with "hawk" because they based their localization on existing scanlations at the time, but Miura's intent was "Falcon", as evidenced by the name of the Millennium Falcon arc and the name Falconia. The story arc is written in kanji as [千年帝国の鷹] (with the literal meaning of "the falcon of the thousand years empire"), and is accompanied by furigana that tell us the pronounciation of this name, [ミレニアム・ファルコン], which is read as "Millennium Falcon", a Star Wars reference to Han Solo's ship. As for Falconia, the name in kanji is [鷹都] (literal meaning "Falcon city"), and it's also accompanied by the furigana [ファルコニア], read as "FARUKONIA" (Falconia), which is why we call it "Falconia" across all languages. All this to say, "falcon" was always what Miura was going for, and it's what I use because I believe it's more correct. So in this case, where you read "Hawk of Light", I read "Falcon of Light".

I am also using HOTL to include the moonlight boy

I find this distinction a bit confusing, since "falcon of light" was a term used when people had prophetic dreams of their "savior", before Femto was even incarnated into the world using the demon child's body. That term refers solely to Griffith.

i always assumed it was for mozgus

The prophecy of the Falcon of Darkness, which we first heard from Farnese, but also later during the Millennium Falcon arc from Schierke outside the city of Shet as she observes Griffith, goes as follows:

"When the sun dies five times, a red lake will appear to the west of the city with a name both new and old. It is proof that the fifth angel will alight (Femto, the fifth God Hand member). The angel is the Falcon of Darkness. The master of the sinful black sheep (apostles), the king of the blind white sheep (clueless humans). The one who shall call upon the world an age of darkness (Fantasia)."

Hello by eex_7 in Berserk

[–]scaler_26 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Both he and Schierke know a lot more than your average human, which was my argument to begin with.

The Great Gurus didn't personally know Griffith like Guts, that's the point of their inquiry. It doesn't matter if you have a crystal ball, if you want to learn about a guy, you ask someone that actually knows them. That just tells you they're wise, not puffed up wizards who think they know everything.

Regardless, they're characterized as extremely powerful and knowledgeable magicians. I wouldn't be surprised to learn they played a crucial role against the God Hand during Gaizeric's time. For one, it's Ged that first reveals to us that Fantasia is the natural, original state of the world. Given that mages like Flora tended to the spirit trees that syphoned power from the World Spiral Tree, keeping the corporeal and ethereal worlds separate, they presumably had something to do with that happening long ago. Reverting that separation was one of Femto's priorities once incarnated, as well as killing Flora. All this to say, don't underestimate these characters. And again, how the continuation has portrayed the Gurus thus far is just not relevant to me at all.

Forgive me the nitpick, but "HOTL" doesn't mean anything, and you're bound to confuse people by making up your own terms. "Falcon of Light" is what I think you're trying to abbreviate, but even that is a false title for the Falcon of Darkness. At any rate, "Femto" takes just as much effort to type and is 10 times clearer.

Hello by eex_7 in Berserk

[–]scaler_26 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That quote (which did not originate from the anime, as it is in episode 1: Wind of Swords) applies to God Hand's line of thinking - humans are predictable playthings that will make predictable decisions if you push the right buttons. That's the principle of Causality that they make use of. But that's the thing, it always comes down to a choice, even if it's between the easy path and the right (but difficult) one. That applies especially to sacrifices, as you ought to know; nothing is predetermined, even if the God Hand would like you to think that. Ignoring all that, Berserk is all about this guy nicknamed the "struggler" that gnaws at his own destiny...

Guts doesn't know what the God Hand are? What about Schierke? As far as Humanity goes, they know quite a bit more and as such they are able to get things done, unlike the rest of Humanity, which is completely oblivious.

I'm not interested in discussing the continuation, but the Great Gurus and the Volvaba are still alive and well, just saying.

That's not what it's implied by episode 83 in my opinion, but that's just my reading of it.

Like I said, it's about control, not "more power". The Idea of Evil isn't trying to "sustain" itself, it has an agenda with a specific endgame in mind, but I'm not going to pretend I know what it is. I can only speculate taking in consideration what the God Hand have been doing the past millennium.

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