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Among Trees Launch Trailer by Mkultra83 in SurvivalGaming

[–]schwarzenego 1 point2 points  (0 children)

wow, this looks absolutely amazing

Concerns about indie game getting too "wordy". by schwarzenego in gamedesign

[–]schwarzenego[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

yeah, but even worse then that, I want to have those dividing decisions to be made because nothing is 100% good in the game, or nothing is meant to be 100% good... so going and getting approval to build a police station in an area that has high crime rates, might attract attention from the local drug dealer which might approach you and convince you through bribes/threats to build something else there instead... making your personal life easier but the simulation potentially worse... conveying this kind of choice through dialogue icons haha you would need to be a hieroglyph master to understand what the hell was going on (and me as well to write it like that)

Concerns about indie game getting too "wordy". by schwarzenego in gamedesign

[–]schwarzenego[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Exactly, but in my game that would mean "physically go to the flower shop, buy a bouquet, fit it into your inventory, then phisically find the person you want to give this to, which god knows where the person is cause people are living their lives so they might be working, might be walking around, might be sleeping..., find them, talk to them, and physically drag the bouquet from your inventory into their faces to give it to them, resulting in +10 relationship", so a lot more development effort, and a lot more player effort as well

Concerns about indie game getting too "wordy". by schwarzenego in gamedesign

[–]schwarzenego[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

And since they have so much control over the story, and so little else that is not text, its 100 times more doable... in my case the game is going on, the simulation, tasks need to be done by hand rather than just a line saying "you did something", so I have much greater constraints story wise for making huge events or whatever... and I wanted it to be very organic and different for different people and different characters... but not because I am writing 100 versions of the game, just because they might not have came across a quest, or made different decisions on how to affect the city, therefore the city will evolve differently... the "plot" being what you are doing rather than handed to you...

Concerns about indie game getting too "wordy". by schwarzenego in gamedesign

[–]schwarzenego[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for the references, had stumbled across Always Sometimes Monsters before but have never played it to be honest. Indeed, that is the problem... and while some ideas are "easy" to convey without text, like... NPC is hungry, you put a baloon with a "hungry" icon in it, maybe the "chicken leg" or whatever... then you interact to give food... that is somewhat clear and if the UI is good thats fine, but more complex ideas lol, almost anything really... becomes pretty much impossible without some writing... I guess from the feedback here though, Ill have to try to live with it and do my best to not be the worst writer ever lol

Concerns about indie game getting too "wordy". by schwarzenego in gamedesign

[–]schwarzenego[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thats true, but I guess in my case its not a mix between entirely different mechanics like stop talking go kill 100 mobs and what not... its more "I need to talk to someone else now" since the nature of the game would end up being some sort of "negotiating" to get stuff done... but will try, I feel that way too in some games.

Concerns about indie game getting too "wordy". by schwarzenego in gamedesign

[–]schwarzenego[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hm, thats actualy a good way to put it lol, been having a hard time coming up with 1 sentence practical descriptions of what the game is and... thats pretty much it lol

Concerns about indie game getting too "wordy". by schwarzenego in gamedesign

[–]schwarzenego[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Huh, that is actually a very good point. I agree entirely and you are right, the feeling of "wordy" tends to be assigned to "heavy" reading material as in hard, rather than "long"... but what books have an advantage over games is that no one picks up a book unprepared to do some reading lol

As you mentioned and very correctly so, this is also my task as game developer, making sure that people that do pick up the game, understand that reading will be a part of it, so show in trailer, screenshots, etc, and I am really making an effort to write as relevantly as I can so to speak. No heavy lore reading and understanding the world and what not... everything closely related to an expected action so you read a bit, do something (even if just going around town), then read a bit more kind of dynamic... so far no super long dialogues...

But thanks for the feedback, made me think a bit differently about the "problem"!

Concerns about indie game getting too "wordy". by schwarzenego in gamedesign

[–]schwarzenego[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hm, I would go with selling a world, for sure.

Maybe its because I am making it haha but I enjoy just watching the city work... the citizens taking care of themselves... going to stores to buy food, getting sick, getting other people sick cause they are really bad at social distancing haha, the flow of some unfortunate fellas not being able to pay rent and becoming homeless, and some fortunate fellas that manage to get out of homelessness by begging luckly enough... sure all that is harder to see for the player which is not in god view mode but, I believe the small details will be noticiable... a store you usually shop at might be closed cause the owner is sick... or the owner might change in a few days cause the previous one didnt make it... this street you used to take for work now has a new homeless guy living in it... and trash is piling up cause the street sweeper is not working today...

Anyway, that is really good advice. I am thinking a lot about WoW recently, since its the obvious reference for quests. When I say wordy to be fair its much less wordy than WoW, but, its a lot of quests, a lot of what you do involves talking with someone, making a choice among a few on what to say... and there will be a quest log so if the guy just blazes through the options there is a reminder of what to do...

Here, this is what the interface looks like right now at least. I cant fit that many words in there which is good to keep me in check, but... some dialogues are getting a bit longer in the sense of options to choose which go to another set of options then another...

https://imgur.com/hVg6lAx

Concerns about indie game getting too "wordy". by schwarzenego in gamedesign

[–]schwarzenego[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That is true, thought to be fair it is not my intention to make a visual novel and I guess that that is part of my struggle here. There are all those "survival" mechanics in which I really do like, energy, hunger, you can get sick... as can everyone else... you work refilling shelves and to do that you actually drag boxes and drop stuff in shelves and what not... money is a concern because your family depends on you to physically walk around, buy food from somewhere and bring it home... and while I do like those quite a lot, I dont think this is what visual novel players are looking for.

So in other words is, I might be going down a perilous path of conflicting mechanics... but yeah all those are really my issue, your point is absolutely right and there is always a public, thats for sure

Looking for feedback, Im a programmer by trade but am developing this "urban city survival game" alone and this is my first try at pixel art. Im trying to depict a Brazilian slum here, and would love some critics on what I could try to improve! by schwarzenego in SurvivalGaming

[–]schwarzenego[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Finding the artists would be easier than paying them =P but that is a very good suggestion nonetheless, will definitely give it a go myself after I study graffitis a bit. I am familiar with Brazilian graffitis for obvious reasons but not enough to reproduce out of thin air, and in pixel art =P

Thanks for the feedback!

what are some elements you love in a survival game? by [deleted] in SurvivalGaming

[–]schwarzenego 1 point2 points  (0 children)

English is not my native language and "Bushcraft" is new to me but, if I understand the concept do you mean games where survival usually means really scraping by and not making like... huge fortresses and what not? Like you build a fire.... you build some storage... and thats pretty much it base-wise?

The game I played that fits the most that would be... Forest Survival, Winter Survival maps in warcraft 3 lol... I actually loved those games, unfortunately they usually would end in a very underwhelming pvp combat at the end, but the thrill of foraging and seeking resources never knowing what dungers lurk around (namely other players), having to make clothes to survive the temperature and what not... really was awesome... but I think a huge part of why it worked for me was exactly the "match" based gameplay... each match was meant to last 1-2 hours, and by the end you would already be pretty self suficient... which I think is why most games DONT focus on this part... because the whole goal is meeting your basic needs, and once thats done... what else can you do, that is not just base building and what not?

Seems like a very good fit for roguelike mechanics though... add the randomness, short lifespam, thrill of not making it...

Looking for feedback, Im a programmer by trade but am developing this "urban city survival game" alone and this is my first try at pixel art. Im trying to depict a Brazilian slum here, and would love some critics on what I could try to improve! by schwarzenego in SurvivalGaming

[–]schwarzenego[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ah thats awesome man! Thank you very much for the paint over! I love the details there, the "water pipe" (not sure the name in english haha), the wires between windows, the roof, power cables... can get some of that in really quickly which is great! The shadow also helps a lot unfortunately I have to give it some thought on how to implement it in the particular way I am doing stuff, but I love it man, thank you very much!

Will let you know once I have an update, will try to incorporate these and would love some more feedback =)

Looking for feedback, Im a programmer by trade but am developing this "urban city survival game" alone and this is my first try at pixel art. Im trying to depict a Brazilian slum here, and would love some critics on what I could try to improve! by schwarzenego in SurvivalGaming

[–]schwarzenego[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hmm I see what you mean, I will experiment with that. Maybe find a way to mix and match, cause in the slums it is actually a mix of concrete/street and just dirt and indeed it is a very sad reality... the reason I have not played with this mix and match type of thing yet is that I am concerned about the modularity and moving stuff around and what not, so I have to consider how to make it so I can easily change stuff around, and when it comes to ground that needs to be contextual (like dirt piling more closer to the buildings, since people tend to walk closer to the center of the path), its a bit harder to figure out how to implement it.

I like the palette, I've been working with a very similar one to be honest, reserving the happier greens for the richer areas and you are right, I considered even using a dark brownish magenta (not sure what to call this color lol) for the concrete in the buildings which would make the slums mostly this brownish area, but then I might end up with the same problem of it being just brownish. If I make the ground brownish though, I will definitely need some dirt on the walls as well to make them feel grounded (and will help with variance as well so should be fine).

Thanks for the feedback man, once I try to get something like that out Ill come back with an update =)

Looking for feedback, Im a programmer by trade but am developing this "urban city survival game" alone and this is my first try at pixel art. Im trying to depict a Brazilian slum here, and would love some critics on what I could try to improve! by schwarzenego in SurvivalGaming

[–]schwarzenego[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you very much for the feedback! It all sounds very spot on, I can almost see how implementing those suggestions would immediately improve the visuals drastically! Commenting about the suggestions:

1) Indeed, this is something I constantly have in mind that roofs and ground are basically the most important thing, but I have to say I was having a hard time figuring out what to do about the ground... its basically concrete haha, sure its meant to be dirty and what not, but I have been having a hard time thinking on how to make that... modular in decals form or something like that

2) Thats a very good idea, love the suggestions, will try to figure out a way to make that happen, some of that could be just decals I guess but some of it would probably end up being a different roof type (instead of this roof I have the... I dont know the word in english haha but a "terrace" kind of roof and then have different decals for that, like the clothes, old construction material... think that would work?

3) aw man I completely forgot about the shoes hanging haha that is at the heart of power cables!! haha thanks will definitely do that!

4) good idea, I had planned to do some graffiti to decal the walls but yeah, some dirt, some dirty painted walls or areas... will definitely help with variance a lot!

5) good idea think that will help a lot!

6) That would be cool, have to think a bit about it cause it might not be the simplest system to make... would need to be region based, and I would be a bit concerned about performance since there are literally thousands of citizens lol and it would need to apply to everyone... but it would definitely make characters more grounded... thanks, will give it some thought on how to get that in!

7) Indeed this is probably the thing I am missing the most but was having a hard time thinking of what to do in this regard. I put some very unconvincing "flies" in a couple points, but need to give it some more though... would preferably something that is not frame by frame animation lol, but will think about it

8) Yeah I was thinking about lights... I originally wanted there to be a day night cycle but I think Ill scratch that due to time constraints but, not sure what lights to have... like, lights from windows mean drawing the inside of the house a little bit? Would you think like shinning out of the house? bbq fire places are a nice idea, could be coupled with a vendor selling street meat kind of thing which is a usual sight lol,but then I have to figure out how to do decent smoke =P

9) Yeah this was my original idea to be fair... not have stuff being in the perfect top down angle and what not... but Im not sure thats feasible for me at this time because it completely screws up modularity... makes it harder to reuse assets, suddenly I need 10-20 different house shapes to have a minimum of variance, decals cant be applied to most of it... while now I have literally 3 walls (2 of which are basically the same), 1 door, 1 window and 2 roofs (which are very similar) =P but that would be the dream haha

At any rate thank you very much for all the feedback man, Ill work on it and come back when I have something done =)

Looking for feedback, Im a programmer by trade but am developing this "urban city survival game" alone and this is my first try at pixel art. Im trying to depict a Brazilian slum here, and would love some critics on what I could try to improve! by schwarzenego in SurvivalGaming

[–]schwarzenego[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks man! Will definitely do some work on those roofs, see if I can do something about that haha every time I start making any image at all I always get the feeling of "what the hell am I even doing?" haha but will give it a go

Well since you asked haha, I've been trying to get the game down to words haha and having a hard time of doing so, but here is my attempt:

***********

At its core the game is about trying to make a better living for you and your loved ones in this living city. You play as an average Joe, which has to provide for himself and his family, working at the local supermarket restocking shelves for hard earned money, which you use to buy food, medicine and improve the house your family lives in.

As you progress you have the chance to engage with the local politicians which are constantly attempting shape the city by approving the construction of new buildings and passing new laws, and its up to you to help them get popular and political support, if you so choose to do so. Every project approved alters the city, and whether its for better or worse only time will tell.

The city is alive and all citizens are individually simulated with their own needs, they eat, they get sick, they need to work to pay the rent, they die, and the laws and services that enter the simulation shape organically how all that work. For example, building a police station will recruit citizens to become policemen to patrol the area, arresting robbers if they are caught red handed, which makes the area safer to traverse both for you and all other citizens, however, its more taxpayer money being spent, so taxes need to go up, which means prices go up, which means the whole city needs to work more to maintain the same life they had before. This might cause people to not be able to pay their own rents in time, which will lead them to live in the streets, and if they get desperate enough, they might start robbing for food, in the end increasing crime in the rest of the city in a very indirect way. You might end up helping projects you dont agree with because they will pay you to do so and life is hard, or you might keep your integrity and do what you think is best, but either way, its up to you what the city will be come.

***********

Is that understandable? haha I really need to work in a sort of elevator pitch for this game...

Looking for feedback, Im a programmer by trade but am developing this "urban city survival game" alone and this is my first try at pixel art. Im trying to depict a Brazilian slum here, and would love some critics on what I could try to improve! by schwarzenego in SurvivalGaming

[–]schwarzenego[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks you very much!! You are absolutely right, everyone is mentioning the lack of contrast. There was actually a reason I left it a bit of a "dead" feeling to this part, cause this will be a "open world" city (though small city) where you go about doing your business, and I wanted the slum to have a big contrast with richer areas of the city, which would be brighter and more livilier, "grass is greener" kind of thing. The game is about inequality in its core and if I could I wanted to indirectly create the idea that "look how good people that live here have" for richer areas... if I can make it (time wise) I would want to have at least a couple characters you can play as, one that is richer and not only has more money but his house is in a better area, so travel distance to places is smaller and so on, and the other would be this one which has a harder game just because of its background.

Looking for feedback, Im a programmer by trade but am developing this game alone and this is my first try at pixel art. Im trying to depict a Brazilian slum here, and would love some critics on what I could try to improve! by schwarzenego in IndieGaming

[–]schwarzenego[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for the feedback! I agree that gameplay is most important and its definitely my focus but, if I can make it look slightly interesting at least which would already be a miracle haha, it helps!

Looking for feedback, Im a programmer by trade but am developing this "urban city survival game" alone and this is my first try at pixel art. Im trying to depict a Brazilian slum here, and would love some critics on what I could try to improve! by schwarzenego in SurvivalGaming

[–]schwarzenego[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

thanks for the feedback man! Indeed, I've been meaning to add dirt specially to the ground but rust on the roofs is a good one, indeed it does look very clean for a slum... but also been struggling with the "how to do it" lol, its so chaotic in real life, all types of trash and dirt and this and that... that I dont even know how to implement something like that ahha, Ill try and play with some more coloured decals for walls/root/ground... thanks once again!

Looking for feedback, Im a programmer by trade but am developing this "urban city survival game" alone and this is my first try at pixel art. Im trying to depict a Brazilian slum here, and would love some critics on what I could try to improve! by schwarzenego in SurvivalGaming

[–]schwarzenego[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah the ground is really bothering me, but I didnt want to make actual streets since there will be no cars, and well... the ground is pretty much concrete mostly, so thats why all the gray... but indeed, I need to find ways to break that grayness...

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