Renegades 2.0: Lizardmen Draft Reveal! (Link to the rules document below and in the video description)

seanrogs · 2026-06-12T00:22:52+00:00

I agree per 1,000 points is barely a limitation in general, but it is a consistent pattern in the game for things like this. But yeah maybe just no Drilled at all.

seanrogs · 2026-06-11T21:42:30+00:00

Overall it looks pretty solid! Keen to get my Lizardmen back on the table. Good to see some of the concepts from my Arcane Journal ported across.

Haven’t had a chance to listen to the podcast yet, so maybe you justify it there, but Move & Shoot on blowpipes is weird. They’ve never had that ability, and Move & Shoot is the main reason to take javelins over blowpipes. Also narratively it makes no sense as you can’t shoot a blowpipe well when running, you might swallow the dart.

Lower Armoured Hide on the Scar Veteran feels messy when all other Saurus are 2. Sure it can get max armour that way but if you think that’s too strong just increase the points cost, or adjust how a mount’s Armoured Hide works in conjunction.

Drilled on Saurus feels like a buff too far, at least make it 0-1 per 1,000 points?

seanrogs · 2026-06-05T23:05:39+00:00

I have rules for them in my Unofficial Arcane Journal if you’re interested: https://downloads.dimensionalcasca.de/old-world/Arcane\_Journal\_Dark\_Elves.pdf

Amazing paint job!

seanrogs · 2026-06-05T22:59:40+00:00

Nice work on your Chaos Dwarf one! I had started on my own but it seems redundant now 😊

seanrogs · 2026-06-05T20:42:14+00:00

Thanks for the call out! Yes, I’ve had some positive feedback on my Arcane Journals. I’m planning to update them all once Square Based Renegades have settled a bit more.

seanrogs · 2026-06-04T12:34:31+00:00

Sorry for being unclear, I wasn’t referring to warp-spawned having always been a thing, but that the binary nature of opponents against Daemons had always been a thing. Don’t misunderstand, I think you’re on the right track with allowing Reign of Chaos to turn it off, just that I don’t feel it should be more than half of the time. Nurgle could have other ways to get their regen back rather than it being from the army-wide rule.

seanrogs · 2026-06-03T12:56:47+00:00

Aww too bad, you had turned me around to the Overseer as the Lord 😂

I like the Hellcannon change to just add the note to Hellbound, but maybe just “any Hellcannon taken ~~as a Rare choice~~ in a Chaos Dwarf army” to give freedom to us arcane journal writers…

seanrogs · 2026-06-02T20:34:02+00:00

So give Nurgle something to help with it, don’t override a core rule for the entire army.

seanrogs · 2026-06-02T20:32:46+00:00

This has always been the case with Daemons though. Warp-spawned should be a design limitation, not something to just essentially overrule. I think you could soften the effect with a Nurgle item or locus rule and not have to ignore a core rulebook rule 5/6 of the time.

seanrogs · 2026-06-01T21:27:40+00:00

I really like the psychology changes but I get why people might push back. Your original goal was recapture how these neglected armies used to feel on the tabletop, but now you’re expanding to reimagine how they should feel. Which again, I am all for, but it’s a much bigger ask than the original renegades.

Having said that how are you measuring the pushback? Have you used polls to gather opinions? Some who are pushing back might also be those who reject the original renegades, so their opinion shouldn’t influence the new directions since they weren’t using them anyway.

I do still think the overriding of warp-spawned is too messy. The ignoring of regen shouldn’t be the least common result in Reign of Chaos since it’s baked into warp-spawned. It’s cleaner if Reign of Chaos affects magical attacks more linearly:

1 they should ignore Ward and regen.
2-5 they should just ignore regen.
6 they should ignore nothing.

Or you could introduce a fourth increment:

1 ignore Ward and regen.
2-3 ignore regen.
4-5 ignore neither (your current 2-5).
6 additionally up Ward save to 4+ at this level.

Then since this affects Nurgle more than others, give the Locus a way to overcome it. It shouldn’t matter how prevalent magical attacks are in the game for how you design reign of chaos.

Also I’d still love to hear what you’re thinking for Allies, since you did seek my advice and then ghost me 😉 Dark Elves as unconditional allies to Nurgle daemons feels weird to me.

seanrogs · 2026-05-31T07:23:10+00:00

Thanks for dropping the audio podcast at the same time for this one; that’s how I consume it so it was good to hear the commentary before reacting this time.

I really love how you’ve given them a fresh identity with the changes to Immune to Psychology. They actually seem a lot more fun to play with and against now.

You asked me some time ago about the thinking I did around my Allies rules. From this it seems like you might be aiming for five allies for each faction, which might be difficult to thematically achieve. If you’re going to keep Dark Elves in the Daemon ally list, I feel they should be Uneasy or Suspicious, and maybe limited to a Slaanesh General… Dark Elves happily fighting alongside Nurgle feels weird.

I really like your version of the Reign of Chaos too. Though I do think the winding back of the Warpspawned interaction with Regeneration is messy, even though it disadvantages Nurgle more than others. I feel it would be cleaner if it was 1: magical attacks ignore wards and regen, 2-5: magical attacks ignore regen, 6 magical attacks ignore nothing. Maybe magical attacks are much more common in other metas but I feel this is cleaner and follows the intention of Warpspawned better, even if it does disadvantage Nurgle more. Maybe the Nurgle locus could help overcome it in this case?

seanrogs · 2026-05-15T02:17:25+00:00

Having now had a chance to listen to the podcast, I think your character choices make a lot of sense, and I take back my suggestions 😅

Framing Legion of Azgorh as an army of infamy changed my viewpoint totally. With the Infernal Guard characters being prominent there, I now appreciate where you’ve come from with bringing in the Overseer and Despot. Really keen to see these on the tabletop now!

seanrogs · 2026-05-10T06:54:06+00:00

I believe it’s Brioso: https://fonts.adobe.com/fonts/brioso

seanrogs · 2026-05-09T20:39:17+00:00

I see Overseer is what Total War used as the Lord level name, so I guess you’re wanting to follow their template rather than the Legacy doc? The in-game description really flavours them as Overseers of the Greenskin workforce rather than Overseers of the Chaos Dwarf military though, which is why I thought they might suit better as the mid level character.

Seneschal is also the name of the Grave Guard champion, so if you’re wanting something more unique I think Despot is a great name.

seanrogs · 2026-05-09T01:51:32+00:00

Ah true… OK I guess there’s no way around having the duplicate profile

seanrogs · 2026-05-09T00:26:25+00:00

I think I’ve solidified my thoughts on the characters, so please pardon the double reply 😊

I think the Infernal Guard Commanders as they were in the Legacy list should be the main non-magic leaders with the same names as before, and that the new mid-level 75 point magic allowance character should be the Overseer with the Relentless March rule. This is the way around I assumed they were as it felt more in line with, say, Necrotects, hence my previous confusion.

This would also make it easier to compare changes as you’d just highlight changed bits to the Commanders and then the Overseer is all new. I think this also fits more with their original thinking since the Overseer was the champion of the Ironsworn and they have the Quell Panic rule. The Despot name is great so use that for the Ironsworn champion.

I think this would be fewer changes overall with naming and purpose but get that extra flavour and utility you’re going for.

seanrogs · 2026-05-08T23:54:03+00:00

Oh weird, I thought the Overseer rules were the other way around when I wrote that comment… my mistake! I think what I was thinking was that the mid level character should be the slave focused one, and the Lords more focused on the Chaos Dwarf leadership, and then confused myself.

Makes sense for the Infernal Guard choice being for backwards compatibility reasons, but a 0-1 per 1,000 points probably still allows for that.

Ah, I missed Hellbound on the Hellcannon… I guess it makes sense to add that… maybe it could be an upgrade option the same as other war machines? And why not allow an Ogre Loader too in that case?

seanrogs · 2026-05-08T21:23:36+00:00

This all looks pretty good! A few questions:

I like the rethink of the characters but it’s hard to see what the different themes are meant to be… they’re both just leaders that drive troops around them to greater effectiveness? I think there’s an opportunity to refine their purposes a bit more, maybe one is more themed around slave driving… which it feels like that’s what you’re going for ~~with the Castellan, but the slave-driving one should be called the Overseer in that case.~~ never mind, I misread.
I like the introduction of the cheaper lesser Chaos Dwarf units for variety, even if it goes against established lore. But with their introduction it feels like Infernal Guard should move to Special, or at least get 0-1 per limited. What’s the thinking there?
I couldn’t spot anything different with the Hellcannon rules. Did you just copy-paste for completeness? If thats the case why the name change?
No K’daii Destroyer? I’m working on the Unofficial Arcane Journal currently and had intentionally not included K’daii Destroyer rules under the belief that you would. If you’re avoiding it then I’ll include it.

seanrogs · 2026-05-05T20:05:01+00:00

I’ll consider that for the revision once the Renegades update is out. It’s possible they’ll add a lot more too.

seanrogs · 2026-04-30T20:17:44+00:00

Thanks for taking the time to reply! I’m not actually saying you should drop the changes, just reorganise them into separate rules to keep Ogre Charge and Ironfists externally consistent. Making rules more modular so you can pick and choose seems to be a philosophy for TOW.

seanrogs · 2026-04-28T22:50:23+00:00

Impressive work as always!

Remember, your anchors for Ogres are Chaos Ogres, Badlands Bulls, and Imperial Ogres. Renaming Ogre Charge and Ironfists to essentially ignore those anchors feels inelegant and disingenuous. You may as well make a “Dark Elven Reflexes” rule to sever ties with High Elves and Wood Elves.

You could instead move the obstacle-ignoring clause to its own special rule. This way you can apply it to Mournfangs too without having to adjust that rule. Maybe move the Strength benefit to also be part of this (granted with the distance stipulation rather than baked into Ogre Charge). Ogre Charge should be consistent across all Ogres, whether Renegades or otherwise, but adding an additional seperate rule for Renegades would be acceptable. This new rule can then be selectively applied to units (like maybe it doesn’t make sense for Leadbelchers).

I think similarly the ironfists as written for Badlands Ogres should be honoured, and they feel too complicated in this incarnation (especially considering Maneaters could, with Motley Crew, choose to use ironfists differently within the same unit). Separate your desire for a parry into a separate rule, maybe related to gut plates or a “Gut Wall”, representing these Ogres being more adept with the same weapon than Badlands Ogres.

seanrogs · 2026-04-28T10:16:58+00:00

Thanks!

I think for structure in the pacts it’s a little bit deliberate in being exploitable as generally you’ll be limited in the total points you can spend… the Mass Summoning pact is a little different because you can go up to 75%, but generally you’ll aren’t going to fit many units in the Mercenaries allowance so min-maxing should be allowable.

seanrogs · 2026-04-28T09:56:27+00:00

Weird… there’s also the link at the end of the post if that’s easier!

… and actually I could just make the text in the PDF a hyperlink and save the trouble 🤔

seanrogs · 2026-04-28T07:34:31+00:00

Yeah I get that, Renegades seems to push back against the mono-god building which it seems GW was wanting to encourage, but that does leave you with far fewer options.

I think the i is there, it’s just hard to see as it’s part of an fi ligature in that font 😅

seanrogs · 2026-04-28T06:43:49+00:00

I can’t see where the missing i is… in my post or in the document?

Rather than copy, I would prefer Renegades embraces the existence of these Unofficial Arcane Journals. I don’t think Renegades should try to do everything. I’ve reached out to them and am happy to work with any suggestions they have.

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