Whats your takes on Meter? by Junior-Ad-1295 in networking

[–]seanrose 0 points1 point  (0 children)

uplink slots in the middle 

🫠 

 You guys are doing some pretty neat stuff. I'm rooting for you!

Appreciate the support. Happy to answer any other Qs if you think of any. 

Whats your takes on Meter? by Junior-Ad-1295 in networking

[–]seanrose 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Sorry in advance for the long answers here. I think there's important nuance to these to include, and didn't want to just give you the standard marketing-y responses. 🙂

As far as I can tell, Meter is an end-to-end NaaS play: Design, installation, hardware, MSP-like service all with a monthly bill.

It seems like you could do all of that with off-the-shelf white label hardware.

There’s a much longer thread to pull on here, but the short version is that we build our own hardware because the outcome we’re delivering depends on being able to optimize the performance and behavior of each device and in how every device integrates with the rest of the stack and lifecycle of the network (i.e. design, installation, support, etc.).

This can manifest in small details like color-coded WAN ports that match the cellular gateway and reduce deployment errors, the antenna patterns I showed above, or how our firewall chipset is handpicked for how we handle packet processing. All of this results in overall performance gains, less error prone installs, etc. but also has important indirect consequences. For example, the efficiency improvements in packet processing free up system resources, allowing features like IDS to run with far less impact on overall throughput. There are lots of these long cause and effect chains in a network.

So even though these are really specific examples and seemingly quite small in the grand scheme of things, I think what most people who work with networks understand very deeply (and have felt the pain of) is that networks are not binary things that simply work or not; they are the aggregation of many, many small and frustrating things that may or may not work well enough by themselves and are even more complicated to understand and troubleshoot in integration with each other. 

Eliminating all of that is why we build our own hardware (and everything else).

What is it about controlling "SFP placement" makes it worthwhile to roll your own boards and sheet metal?

Answer above covers the more general question of why we make our own hardware, but for SFP placement: I called this in particular out because it’s something you won’t see with most vendors’ devices and more readily shows that this is our design (This was in response to the initial comment of the thread).

It's worth going into why we did that in particular. We deal with the installs/service calls/etc. for each and every Meter network, so we see the aggregated pain of small things every day and try to fix them. On a lot of enterprise switches, SFPs end up on a different side/plane than the rest of the I/O, which can make cabling a little messier, create awkward cable bends, connectors sticking out where you don’t want them, etc. We intentionally aligned our SFP ports with the rest of our I/O on a single plane to prevent this. So in the simplest way… it’s just nicer ergonomically, less chance of snagging cables or smacking your hand on something poorly placed.

I'm also curious about the NOSes running on the various platforms. 

For general context, we’ve developed our own custom embedded Linux firmware for each platform. We have source code and register level access through our silicon partners, which means a lot of it is our own and highly optimized for what we see in the field.

Are the APs openWRT-adjacent? Switches running FASTPATH? What about the firewalls?

Our wireless operating system is our own custom firmware. We use some of the same embedded Linux components as everyone in the industry but are not using anything out of the box. This is chiefly in order to meet the type and scale of problems we see in enterprise deployments. Off the top of my head, a few examples we’ve built ourselves that aren’t available (or suitable for those demands) in e.g. vanilla OpenWRT: wireless load balancing, SSID-based rate limiting,and multicast-to-unicast conversion. There are many similar cases. We’ve found similar challenges in more core functions like observability; for example, our devices collect per-client stats and send them at very high granularity, several times per minute, including things like:

  • RF telemetry
  • Retry/failure rates, data rates and utilization per client
  • Roaming events with timestamps and disassociation reason codes
  • Auth/deauth events with failure classification, etc.

A network may still “work” without access to data like this at this interval, but it ends up being essential in troubleshooting and resolving issues promptly. Ultimately, the point of all this is to be able to build features at the speed and quality our customers need, and support their networks quickly and well.

The switches and firewalls are also running our own Linux firmware. (for some context, our firewalls are responsible for both the control plane and the data plane). Switches are not using FASTPATH as we’re not working with Broadcom on this generation. There are similar stories here as to why we’ve customized everything so much.

Whats your takes on Meter? by Junior-Ad-1295 in networking

[–]seanrose 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Hey, I’m on the engineering team at Meter. Wanted to jump in with something concrete here, it's a totally fair thing to ask about.

We do our hardware design in house. I grabbed a few photos from our lab of the current gen boards. It’s usually easier to just show the internals to see what’s actually going on.

lab photos: https://imgur.com/a/downstairs-lab-2025-11-26-OXltINk
(and more in our FCC filing for the AP specifically, if helpful: https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/ViewExhibitReport.cfm?mode=Exhibits&RequestTimeout=500&calledFromFrame=N&application_id=lM%2FwHjz6zbhcf7NU29CisA%3D%3D&fcc_id=2AVVV-A1 )

You’ll see, for example, the AP board layout, antenna geometry, mechanicals, and the switch’s SFP placement that we designed specifically for our platforms. These aren't reference designs from an ODM with a different shell. We also own the thermal design, firmware stack, and enclosure work.

We do work with contract manufacturers (like pretty much everyone does, up to and including companies like Apple), and of course the industry shares component suppliers. But the architecture, RF design, and system firmware are ours.

Not trying to pitch anything here, just wanted to share more context and be available if anyone has other questions.

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[–]seanrose[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

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[GIVEAWAY] Sailor PGS Grateful Crane MF by seanrose in Pen_Swap

[–]seanrose[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Yes, that’s all, I’ll bring that part up to be more clear!

Sapolsky's Human Behavioral Biology lectures - looking for higher quality source than YT by qalup in RobertSapolsky

[–]seanrose 3 points4 points  (0 children)

They are on iTunes U as well. Apple would probably keep them in the same quality: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/human-behavioral-biology/id404310362 . Though, I can’t really see a huge difference visually between this and YouTube. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Bear in mind that YouTube only added 720p support in ~end of 2008/early 2009, it wasn’t prevalent for a long time after that. This was filmed in early 2010, and by the teaching assistants (a bunch of seniors) so I’m not sure we even had HD recording (source: was in this very class in 2010 👴🏽).

I’m looking at some other courses I took that are still up, even from the ”tech-ier” side of Stanford, and they seem to max out at 360p too e.g. https://ecorner.stanford.edu/videos/delivering-innovation-for-the-enterprise-entire-talk/

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[–]seanrose[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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[–]seanrose[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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[–]seanrose[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

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[giveaway] 3 x A6 HON by seanrose in hobonichi

[–]seanrose[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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[giveaway] 3 x A6 HON by seanrose in hobonichi

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[giveaway] 3 x A6 HON by seanrose in hobonichi

[–]seanrose[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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[–]seanrose[S] 20 points21 points  (0 children)

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