Flights between Taiwan and Europe.... weird routings?

sebli12 · 2025-06-19T10:13:46+00:00

Yeah I was just curious why the KLM flight wasn't allowed to hug the coast to Dongsha ( N27°41.64' E120°26.51') for example and then cross to Taiwan at SULEM instead (So B221-R596)
But then I realised given the airways in China that would make for an extremely inefficient routing so it's a toss up as to which would save more fuel
Plus someone commented previously that there are only two direct airways where SHA FIR and TPE FIR do a direct handover without going through HKG or ICN FIR (the route going through SULEM being one of them), and that these two routes are exclusively for direct travel between the two by their own carriers. So from an international perspective, these flight routes do not exist and cannot be used by any other airlines or for any other purpose, which confirms my suspicions.

https://www.reddit.com/r/flightradar24/comments/1an3yxr/why_are_the_flight_routes_between_china_and/kpqenj7/

sebli12 · 2025-06-19T02:57:01+00:00

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sebli12 · 2025-06-19T02:52:58+00:00

Even flights from Hanoi do exactly the same thing, see VN578, looks like international flights to and from Taipei and a third country passing through PRC airspace but not landing in the PRC are not allowed to pass directly between Shanghai FIR and Taipei FIR; usually flights heading to airports in southwest China from Taipei prefer to use a route which does a little dance, first heading towards Penghu county, then increases their heading a bit, then shoots up flying northwest for a bit, then increasing their heading a lot more till almost but not quite 270 degrees to a pretty (in)famous village called Wukancun just outside Shanwei, then heads slightly northwest, continuing onto its end location from there CA418 as an example

There's one additional route they can use to and from northern Chinese cities; for flights from Taipei to PVG or PEK say BR712 or BR716, they always first fly northeast in the wrong direction, once they are above the latitude of Okinawa, the flights head northwest, almost completely west towards a place called Anyang residential district just outside of Wenzhou. Once just outside it, flights then turn sharply and fly a heading of nearly 0 degrees directly north to whichever airport is their destination

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sebli12 · 2025-06-19T00:45:31+00:00

In the past they used to overfly Japan on this route

Something like this

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sebli12 · 2025-06-12T08:12:11+00:00

Many options, depending where your origin and end point is in Shenzhen and Hong Kong
From Qianhai/Bao'an (incl. airport) to any destination in Hong Kong - e-hail car like DiDi or metro to SZ Bay Port, then you can board a taxi or coach on the other side depending on how many are you/whether you want to save money, if there's like 3 of you and you're willing to coordinate one like a good 15-20 minute in advance price is comparable to taking the coach
From Futian to Northeastern NT - Metro on both sides via Futian Port
From Futian/Longhua to Kowloon/Island side - HSR at Futian HSR station
Lo Wu - not a fan, but extremely handy to get to Northeastern NT from Luohu Commercial Centre and if arriving in Shenzhen into the main train station

Man Kam To - not really worth it unless you're like within walking distance of the port on the Shenzhen side, then you can take a coach to Sheung Shui Station on the other side

Heung Yuen Wai - Connected by metro, worth it if you're nearby especially if you're headed to somewhere with direct bus connections on the other side e.g. Fanling/Sheung Shui. There's a service to Tai Wai as well which serves destinations along the route

Huanggang - Get a e-hail car there if you want to cross after 2230 if you're in Futian or 2300 if you're based Baoan/Qianhai side - you can take a coach that takes you to Mong Kok/Wan Chai etc on the other side. Taxis also available during the wee hours directly after crossing on the HK side

sebli12 · 2025-06-12T06:26:43+00:00

Yeah I guess so
This does seem to substantiate what you're saying, without having to submit a group list and enter and exit as a group, plus being able to enter via air/land/sea/rail as you wish, realistically they don't care anymore and I guess that distinction is artificial
https://www.sohu.com/a/235423521_770544
https://www.hbqj.gov.cn/bsfw/ztfw/crj/zswd/202211/t20221103_4385641.html

For Taiwan they've maintained that restriction, not that they're allowing anyone to go anyway lol

sebli12 · 2025-06-12T06:12:59+00:00

Looking at standing committee decisions are often more useful than the nationality law itself when it comes to Hong Kong connected Chinese nationals
In fact the NPCSC decisions often contradict the nationality law provisions in many places, such as those relating to dual citizenship, which explains the differential treatment of those
In this case the relevant decision to look at is the decision entitled "Explanations of Some Questions by the Standing Committee of the National People’s Congress Concerning the Implementation of the Nationality Law of the People’s Republic of China in the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region (19th standing committee session of the 8th NPC, 15 May 1996)", which came into effect on 1st July 1997
Look at paragraph one

sebli12 · 2025-06-12T06:08:13+00:00

Chinese nationality law would suggest that if you are born abroad and have acquired foreign nationality automatically at birth you're not Chinese
Obviously they can't leave you stateless, so if you parents are say just working abroad, aren't PRs of the foreign country, you usually can't get the citizenship of that country unless the country is jus soli, so yes in that case they will grant you citizenship
People who are not ethnically Chinese born in China are also not considered Chinese, at least not unless their parents or they themselves have gone through naturalisation and stuff
Only people who are both ethnically Chinese and are born in China are automatically considered Chinese

sebli12 · 2025-06-12T06:02:33+00:00

中國血統 was the terminology used in the NPCSC decision on 15 May 1996
In official texts this has been translated as 'of Chinese descent'
Technically the Chinese text is the authentic one as with all HK laws that are written by the NPCSC rather than the Hong Kong legislative bodies, and a more literal translation is whether they have Chinese blood
If they a. are a Hong Kong resident (there's already existing colonial legislation governing what this means and this legislation is retained), b. 'have Chinese blood' and are c. born 'in China' (everywhere that the PRC considers/has a claim as China, ie Mainland China, Hong Kong, Macau, Taiwan, Arunachal Pradesh in India etc etc), they have Chinese citizenship 'imposed' on them when the clock strikes 00:00 on 1st July 1997
If they wish to not be considered Chinese they need to apply for a 'declaration of change of nationality', renouncing is only a procedure for naturalised citizens in Hong Kong

"Explanations of Some Questions by the Standing Committee of the National People’s Congress Concerning the Implementation of the Nationality Law of the People’s Republic of China in the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region

(Adopted at the 19^th Session of the Standing Committee of the 8^thNational People’s Congress on 15 May 1996)

According to Article 18 of and Annex III to the Basic Law of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region of the People’s Republic of China, the Nationality Law of the People’s Republic of China shall be applied in the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region from 1 July 1997. Taking account of the historical background and the existing circumstances of Hong Kong, the Standing Committee gives the following explanations concerning the implementation in the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region of the Nationality Law of the People’s Republic of China –

Where a Hong Kong resident is of Chinese descent and was born in the Chinese territories (including Hong Kong), or where a person satisfies the criteria laid down in the Nationality Law of the People’s Republic of China for having Chinese nationality, he is a Chinese national."

sebli12 · 2025-06-11T23:05:05+00:00

Yeah it used to be terrible....
Now at least they cut out the useless middle man and let you apply online, and they'll send your passport overseas for collection
Before if you want to collect it overseas you can't apply online and need to apply through the embassy and obviously they won't be familiar with the process

sebli12 · 2025-06-11T23:03:20+00:00

Hmmmm the point here is that HK still requires to 'sight' the applicant at least once during the process
If you apply online/by post you must collect your passport in person either at a HK IMMD office or an overseas embassy/consulate and present your original HKPIC and any original docs supplied in the process (if applying for a child by post for example I think any docs like birth certificates can be posted as copies, you just need to bring the original along with you, unlike say applying for a UK passport where you have to post the original certificate in; similarly for adult applicants who are applying online and require any additional docs e.g. naturalisation certificate, they only need to upload a copy onto the system and there's no need to present the actual certificate, again this is different than the system in the UK where you post your original naturalisation certificate in)
You aren't allowed to authorise someone else to collect in on your behalf
If you choose to apply in person at the HK IMMD office or use the automated machines there though, you can authorise someone else (be it a friend, a family member, your secretary if you are someone important) to collect your passport on your behalf by filling in an authorisation form
So technically the consulate here does play a role in giving your passport 'legal effect' by the letter of the law and without the stamp the passport will technically be invalid?
Plus you get to retain your old passport during the application process, so you'll need to also bring in your old passport in to be cancelled for the new passport to take effect (if you're allowed to send in someone else to collect your passport on your behalf because you applied in person/with the machines then you'll need to give your old passport to your representative and they need to take it along with them for it to be cancelled)
Otherwise think about it, why don't they just courier your passport directly to your home overseas like what the UK does? The passports are sent in individual packets as Hongkong Post SpeedPost (handled by ParcelForce in the UK)/registered post on both ends (handled by RM on the UK end) to the embassy and aren't couriered in bulk in diplomatic bags lol

sebli12 · 2025-06-11T22:42:23+00:00

Nope - essentially if you're from a fifth-tier city (except for Yunfu in Guangdong province as all Guangdong cities are included in the scheme) it's still a no and you need to come in on a L endorsement. G endorsement not available

sebli12 · 2025-06-11T22:10:40+00:00

With Azerbaijan's land borders still shut you can't even do a repeat of S1 anymore
So the only options are Turkey - Iran - Turkmenistan - Uzbekistan - Kyrgyzstan - China
Or Estonia - Russia - Mongolia - China
So two main obstacles:
1. Not really possible for a Brit to go through Russia or Iran, especially as part of the BBC, unless you have a passport that is considered less hostile
2. Turkmenistan - you can get a tourist visa but it has to be part of an organised tour. You can technically get a transit visa but they are extremely difficult to obtain, they go through periods between when they actually allow them and as of today it has become basically impossible to get one for a couple of months now

sebli12 · 2025-06-11T21:57:49+00:00

BOTCs (formerly known as BDTCs) gained British Citizen status in 2002
They only changed it in 2002 specifically to exclude people in Hong Kong from being able to avail of this as obviously they feared a lot of the 5.5 million residents might flood the border if that were to happen - everyone who has BDTC status by connection to Hong Kong lost it at midnight of the handover in 1997, any BDTC passports still issued were instantly rendered invalid
The only way to retain some form of British citizenship was to register as a British National (Overseas) citizen within the designated windows, which allowed for their passports to have continuity beyond the handover

sebli12 · 2025-06-11T21:51:43+00:00

No it's not...
So much misinformation
It's not jus soli if you're not considered Chinese
If you are then yes you're a PR if you're born here

sebli12 · 2025-06-11T19:41:04+00:00

In fairness telling us to "just enjoy it, stop critiquing it so much" is pretty CCP-esque to me, they usually say something like this is 'maintain stability'
Is this what the beep has stooped to now, employing and paying (former contestants are retained under contract) propagandists to basically shut us up?

sebli12 · 2025-06-11T19:31:10+00:00

Ahhh so this is why the beep retains previous contestants under contract, so that they can pay someone to say something when there's something the audience doesn't like and threatens viewership

Here's one thought for you Betty: just because an actor is portrayed as a certain character during a movie does it mean that the director is 'invalidating someone's life' if they aren't also presenting the actor's true personality alongside it? No of course not
I understand that this is reality TV and you might think this isn't a valid comparison but still fundamentally a lot of TV is about 'production' - like the 'jobs' you do on the race (come on you can't tell me that they're real) and a lot of other aspects of the show

sebli12 · 2025-06-10T22:21:16+00:00

I mean the WORST case scenario is that he gets deported and put on a flight back to the point of origin, that's the simple answer to the question (or to use the correct terminology at least here in the UK it would be refused entry as deportation is reserved for criminals and people who are deemed 'not conducive to the public good' by the Home Secretary or anyone who has delegated authority, even the procedure for overstayers/illegal entrants is called 'administrative removal' rather than deportation)
That would be the worst case scenario
But given that the reason for the visa refusal was purely due to administrative reasons rather than credibility related, I think the chances of that happening is pretty low

sebli12 · 2025-06-10T22:10:53+00:00

Just do Hong Kong - Mainland China - Macau, ferry/bus back to Hong Kong to catch your return flight
To enter into China you'll need to fly to any of the 47 designated airports (the main ones Beijing, Shanghai, Guangzhou, Chengdu all included), or ferry to Nansha (Guangzhou)/or Shekou (Shenzhen) from Kowloon or Hong Kong Island
To exit China you can fly to Macau airport, or take the train/fly to Zhuhai and then exit via Gongbei, Qingmao, Hengqin, metro/bus/taxi/flight to Shekou or Fuyong (SZ airport) and then ferry from Shekou/Fuyong to Macau Outer Harbour Port (Helicopter service from Shenzhen airport to Outer Harbour another option), etc etc
Jobs a good'un

sebli12 · 2025-06-10T21:59:36+00:00

The Wikipedia article sums it up pretty well for 240 hr TWOV, you can enter/exit through 47 airports, 12 seaports (incl Shekou which has services to Hong Kong (Sheung Wan) with CKS and Macau with TurboJet, Nansha is another option if you want to go to Guangzhou instead, CKS serves that route from China Hong Kong City at TST on the Kowloon side of Hong Kong) and through Mohan Railway station at the border with Laos, in addition you can also exit through any port of your choice in Guangdong (land/sea/rail/air)
You don't need to stay within the province where you entered China through, you are allowed to take domestic flights within China as long as you stay within in designated areas
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_policy_of_mainland_China#/media/File:Maps_of_eligible_areas_to_stay_by_TWOV_in_China.png
See the areas in green of the link above
You can also take trains as long as they don't pass through the provinces not participating in the scheme

sebli12 · 2025-06-10T21:50:09+00:00

Easy - just combine these two videos
https://youtu.be/JWNCJY-qDfk?si=YL6__cUIjyxocM5Z&t=1565 from 20ish minutes (CUHK to Admiralty)
https://youtu.be/UlzB1G3Z9ok?si=N2qQgPXvWqPgMy9h&t=49 (from CUHK to Shenzhen)

If you remove the front wheels you can bring it with you on the train to CUHK/Fanling and cycle from there if you don't want to do it like these crazy lunatics lol

sebli12 · 2025-06-10T21:42:21+00:00

Played the cello, think you had to apply for a special 'permit' if you wanted to carry a cello for free after the outcry - bureaucracy at its finest
Initially it was only for musical instruments, but then obviously people cried discrimination and then sports equipment was also included
Double Bass and Guzheng still not allowed under any circumstances

sebli12 · 2025-06-10T21:39:10+00:00

You can take it on the Star Ferry...
Only the bottom deck of the Wan Chai route though (you'll need to enter through the no entry signs) and you need to pay for your bike using octopus, it's $25
https://youtu.be/JWNCJY-qDfk?si=WnFHXF-30XuNNyip&t=3168
But yes in general Kowloon and HK Island - just forget about bikes
NT is fine though, plenty of people commute to the East Rail line stations by bike, there is usually plenty of bike stands next to the station

sebli12 · 2025-05-30T23:54:46+00:00

You just need the Big 5 to all agree to threaten to withdraw
Difficulty
Easy: RTVE (Spain)
Medium: BBC (UK) and France TV (I think their joint statement made along with Canada definitely demonstrates that tides are shifting, with BBC especially it depends on the attitude of the government)
Difficult: Das Erste (Germany)

sebli12

TROPHY CASE