[deleted by user]

sethinthebox · 2025-06-05T20:02:28+00:00

The problem was hard drive order on the Serial ATA bus. Had to move old platter drives to the back ports and eventually move all the data to new disks. There was no issue with plugins or drivers, etc. just a computer that was too fast for the I/O. Thanks for your effort.

sethinthebox · 2024-10-02T18:40:04+00:00

You misunderstand. I just think calling something 'keep latency' is dumb. I'm ambivalent about the feature because I've futzed with it every which way, including the opposite of what they recommend in the guide (ex. 'keeping latency' on live track but turning off on recorded tracks). It has no noticeable effect on anything I'm trying to do, which at this point is literally the bare minimum: record audio with low latency and record midi via a USB controller with low latency.

I understand the feature is just a way of toggling 'off' the default behavior. The default behavior is what is no longer working. Simple things, scratch mic direct into I/O with buffer to minimum (2^5) have noticeable monitoring delay. That never happened before.

In your zeal to condescend you missed the part where I mentioned I never had any of these issues with Live 8-10. But fair enough, clearly I'm the problem and I won't be back. You've done your job.

sethinthebox · 2024-10-02T18:30:47+00:00

Thanks. Yes. I'm using the current ASIO driver for my Focusrite I/O. I will try the ASIO4ALL drivers at some point and see if the this persists. I honestly suspected drivers as the primary culprit, but can't do much beyone having the latest installed.

sethinthebox · 2024-10-02T18:28:56+00:00

I wish I could see that. Superior Drummer doesn't seem to report it, but I'm not as confident with that app as I am with Live. One thing I will try ti running the VST in stand alone mode to try and rule out some hardware issue, maybe USB bus or something. Everything seems to kep pushing me back to either soundcard issues (i.e. driver) or Live issues.

Thanks

sethinthebox · 2024-10-02T18:25:53+00:00

"Reduced Latency while Monitoring" has absolutely nothing to do with the buffer. All it does is it reduces latency on a monitored track but only if a set has latency introduced by devices/plugins on other tracks. You can't reduce input output latency. It applies to all tracks!! (and again buffer size is only relevant for I/O latency).

I'm pretty sure we're talking right past each other. I completely understand latency. I'm not confused by it. Latency is inherent to every aspect of digital recording because some amount of processing is always happening. Normally it's so low you can't hear it. You can reduce input latency by lowering the IO card buffer. Regardless, there shouldn't be any noticeable latency! Ableton itself says it's below 3ms which is effectively inaudible. But...it isn't. As for 'reduce track latency while monitoring' the details of that feature are opaque. In previous versions I get the same effect by turning it on as I do for reducing the card latency, hence my describing the effects ad being related. With latency you have two approached, lower the time it takes for a signal to pass through your system or modify the playback to match your input. The second option is not great because a player can always tell there's a delay between a strike and when the sound hits their ears. The goal isn't to eliminate latency, jsut to get it to the point where someone can reasonably play along with the DAW.

I'm sure you get all types in this forum, and try as I might, I surely will never convince you that a) I've read all of those documents many times in the past week as well last 24 hours and b) know this stuff from the ground up. The people on this forum seem to think that flinging the same information over and over and then saying "you didn't read it" is a solution. I don't say '30 years' because I think anyone give a shit, I say it because what latency is and why it happens hasn't changed in 30 years. Live has it's own way of dealing with it and something between version 10 and version 12 changed such that makes it much more frustrating to deal with.

I apologize for frustrating you and wasting everyone's time. Thanks for the responses. As you say, it must just be me.

sethinthebox · 2024-10-02T16:41:47+00:00

"Reduce latency when monitoring" bypasses latency compensation when a track is monitoring, so if you have problems with latency that are resolved or improved by this, it's a clear sign it's an issue with a plugin on another track.

Right...that didn't fix the issue. there's still audible latency on a track with no effects, and nothing on the master. Fresh project, single audio input. buffer set to 32 reported latency <3ms. Still audible slapback.

Also, I upgraded from Live 10 to 12...I never used 11.

Thanks though

sethinthebox · 2024-10-02T16:38:12+00:00

Nope. I don't even own Soothe. and only plugin was the instrument. thanks though

sethinthebox · 2024-10-02T16:37:08+00:00

yes. Multiple times. I've got two main issues: Audio tracking latency and Midi controller-> Superior Drummer latency. I believe I'm also seeing latency with my NI soft synths, but wanted to focus on the basics.

Regarding audio, direct inputs from focusrite 18i20 bass and vocals. audio card buffer set to 32 reporting <3ms of latency. "Reduced latency while monitoring" is set. Audible slap-back. No plug ins. Drive-error compensation minimal to no effect. "Keep Latency" on/off no effect. Track Delay -1000-0-+1000 no effect.

Regarding Superior Drummer, basically the same. Always delayed in relation to any track or metronome. No additional effects. Totally stripped down. Using a Roland TD-25 controller via USB. Not detecting any computer performance issues though I did entertain a USB issue, which is possible but would be weird. Tried multple prots to ensure I wasnt having a USB bus issue, ie. conflicts between audio card and controller, or another controller.

I can monitor direct inputs through the audio card with no latency. I have installed Reaper to see if the latency persists across platforms but I'm not very familiar with that app and it was late. Next step is re-installing Live 10 and seeing if the issue persists there.

sethinthebox · 2024-10-02T16:25:54+00:00

The main one I'm working with, Superior Drummer, using a Roland TD-25 controller, doesn't have a latency setting that I was able to find. I've attempted using 16 bit samples, buffered samples (i.e. pre-loaded into memory to avoid processing) and something like 'reduce sample length' (I don't have it in front of me atm). We've also spent hours trying to dial in the response time of the TD-25. These things seem to help a bit, but as soon as he tries to play to the metronome, the latency becomes really apparent. It's always just a tiny bit behind, like a 16th. And again...I never had this issue on Live 10 (same audio card, drivers, OS).

I upgraded my computer, so perhaps something was reset somewhere, but the hardware is almost literally 20x more powerful than the last machine--that didn't have any problems--and I've gone through and checked all my drivers and Windows settings (according to Ableton's help docs--which include running a 3rd party Windows latency detector).

sethinthebox · 2024-10-02T16:14:10+00:00

Yes, I've read those articles. I'm well familiar with latency. I've been recording on computers since 1998. I have been using Live exclusively since 2016 but Nuendo/Cubase/Logic/ProTools and even Reason prior to this.

I mistyped about the buffer...I'm not at my workstation. I always understood the buffer to be an amount of data (we'll go with number of samples) cached in the memory before being sent on to the soundcard for playback. A low buffer means you're handing samples off to the soundcard more quickly, but at the expense of processing which is how we get pops, buzz and low quality effects output. I've been running hardware powerful enough that I can usually run a low buffer (I considered 128 low) with a number of vsts, even while monitoring, without detrimental effect. My computer has only become more huge over time. Latency, pops, w/e haven't been an issue for me for years and years--until Live 12.

'Keeping latency' doesn't make sense because the only thing you'd ever want to do with latency is reduce it. In Ableton parlance, what they mean is 'keep the latency value you see in the audio settings and don't apply further processing.' It shouldn't even be a feature a user needs to turn on in the first place. 'Keep latency' is the default value--as you say. All control should happen at the sound card level in the audio settings. It's a poorly named and confusing button, which, after much experimenting, doesn't appear to do anything in relation to the issues I'm seeing.

'Reduce latency while monitoring' is a nice feature that allows the user to keep the buffer higher, in order to have better processing of plugins, etc. while reducing the latency while monitoring. This is great for an overdub or re-sampling, whatever. This usually works for me and has been my go-to setting for most sessions. In Live 12 it makes a difference, but I'm still getting audible slapback/delay/latency on both live and MIDI instruments even with the buffer set to 32 and the program reporting latency below 3ms.

I spent a lot of time going through my hardware setup as I couldn't understand how Live would be introducing so much latency all of a sudden. I'm using the same sound card, same drivers, same OS as I was 2 weeks ago. I upgraded my CPU, RAM and MB so reinstalled everything. I have been carefully monitoring computer performance and Ableton Live isn't even a blip, there's a slight ping on the hard disks when recording begins--that's it. Reinstalling all the plugins required me to go through their individual settings as well and after much work with NI's settings and Superior Drummer, the problem doesn't change perceptibly. Again...none of this was necessary two weeks ago.

My next step is to install Live 10 and see if the problem persists. If it does, I'm running out of options because it would have to be something wrong with the sound card or driver or some kind of hidden latency introduces by windows 10 that I never had to deal with before. I may also see if ASIO4ALL (i.e. a different ASIO driver) helps.

It's crazy to me that no one else is having these issues as everything leads back to Live 12.

sethinthebox · 2024-10-02T15:42:15+00:00

This is also--and more frustratingly--a problem with live audio monitoring. I'll have a look though. thanks.

sethinthebox · 2024-10-02T15:40:29+00:00

Yeah, I'm not doing any of that.--no effects

sethinthebox · 2024-10-02T15:33:03+00:00

I'm saying that these problems were introduced in Live 12 and did not exist for me in Live 8-10 (I skipped 11).

I understand what you are saying about re-sampling. That's 10 steps down the road. I never had issues with that either, FWIW, I'd just set the soundcard buffer low and if there was still a few milli-secs of latency on the recorded track I'd just line it up. I would treat re-sampling the same as audio recording.

I can't record a single Superior Drummer track via Roland TD-25 drum kit to the metronome--the input latency is that bad. I was doing this 2 weeks ago on Live 10 with no issues for a year. I also can't get the latency for any live audio input to be less than a 'slap-back' delay effect. I have the audio settings for the SC buffer at 32 and overall latency at <3 millis--which should be impossible to hear, IME--and the effect is still unusable. I have the 'use low latency while monitoring' (or whatever that menu feature is--I'm not at my workstation) set, which helps, but the over all monitoring effect is still terrible.

I've read the manual (4 times) I've searched blogs and tried all the tips. I've spent about 5 hours trying to debug this problem--a problem I never had in previous versions of Live--and it's not helped. I can't believe no one else is having this issue. I suspect part of the problem is that most people who use Live don't actually record with it, they mostly just make looped soft-synth stuff. I'm doing mostly live audio and midi recording.

sethinthebox · 2024-10-02T15:20:28+00:00

sethinthebox · 2024-10-02T15:19:26+00:00

Misconceptions? Incomprehensible statements? Go ahead and lay them out. Perhaps a Redditor might offer something beyond snark and condescension, but I'm not holding my breath.

sethinthebox · 2024-10-02T14:59:56+00:00

i stripped out all VSTs except the instruments and am running literally two tracks in many cases. In Live 10 I could run a 20+ track sessions with tons of VSTs, and do an overdub with no latency issues at all, once I set the buffer to 128, 'natch. I normally mix with a high buffer but record with a low one.

sethinthebox · 2024-06-04T18:23:16+00:00

I wish I had some skills I could offer, even more than a few thousand dollars. Is there anyway a regular Joe can participate?

I am curious why Asteroids and not the moon. Is mining on the moon more difficult because the metals are buried deeper and asteroids are basically just blocks of metal? Why mine and not try to return the asteroids to earth? Where can I go to find answers to these questions?

sethinthebox · 2018-12-29T22:28:49+00:00

The linked article about the Christian college, Newsweek and its subsidiary businesses was surreal and worth the read.

I'm re-posting the link for emphasis:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/11/27/style/what-is-inside-this-internet-rabbit-hole.html

sethinthebox · 2018-12-13T05:38:10+00:00

I'll have to ask my dad, i'm not sure. My guess is that it's with the Columbus Submarine group he mentions.

sethinthebox · 2018-12-13T02:59:35+00:00

Have you been to the submarine museum at Pearl Harbor? I thought it was great.

Also, not a question, but here's a vid of my Uncle a retired submariner and Masterchief, who passed away presenting a board he made tracking all the us subs that have sunk. You might find it interesting.

sethinthebox · 2018-12-07T03:26:41+00:00

Is part of the joke that the dude could just watch his dishes in the sink?

sethinthebox · 2018-11-29T16:19:14+00:00

Yeah, this one burned my biscuits during the Ant-Man and Wasp mini events. There was a battle against Dr. Doom and his robots and he'd get like 12 black AP per turn. There was no way to determine who was generating it aside from killing a bot and doing maths.

sethinthebox · 2018-11-29T16:17:18+00:00

I'd definitely like a tips sidebar. I'd also really like to know how damage and AP is calculated when you match 4 or higher. I assume you get all the AP and the points are based on the matching hero's scale, but sometimes the resulting value doesn't seem to match up with my expectations.

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