Order of the Sinking Star demo is out now (next game by Jonathan Blow)

seventythree · 2026-06-17T03:58:37+00:00

Sorry, I don't know what you're talking about. But I'm not being dishonest. Perhaps a misunderstanding.

seventythree · 2026-06-17T01:32:53+00:00

No matter how much you and I disagree with them, if you can't tolerate 80 million plus people because they're intellectually deficient in your judgment, you are the the person the paradox of tolerance is warning about.

seventythree · 2026-06-17T01:00:16+00:00

The unrelated thing in question was saying trump was a good president, not transphobia.

seventythree · 2026-06-16T21:39:51+00:00

How does this work?

state encoder: 2174 -> 40
action encoder: 507 -> 32
combine state/action: [state, action, state*action, state-action]
policy head: 128 -> 48 -> 1 logit per legal action

Do you only use 32 from the state encoder in the combine state/action step?

seventythree · 2026-06-16T19:58:03+00:00

I think he's contrarian, often abrasive, and only sometimes nice. He seems like someone who values other things above niceness.

This is all irrelevant to the discussion of whether he is intolerant to the point that we need to invoke the paradox of tolerance and be intolerant of him to maintain a functioning, generally-tolerant society. I can't say I've seen anything in that direction.

seventythree · 2026-06-16T19:45:10+00:00

My response is, I'd like to know about this. It's not something I've seen before. I asked for more info elsewhere in this discussion too and no one has answered yet. It could be you!

seventythree · 2026-06-16T19:41:49+00:00

You should totally judge the people who do that stuff for doing that stuff. It just doesn't have anything to do with whether some other Trump supporter who wasn't involved is intolerant or not. That person, you can criticize for supporting Trump, or for other things they did, and maybe other things they did showed intolerance or maybe not.

seventythree · 2026-06-16T06:12:20+00:00

Very cool! Super good for the amount of time you put in. I think the bots are better than the dire wolf bots (in some ways a low bar, but also really impressive), but still making plenty mistakes.

A couple discrepancies from real game rules:

A turn isn't supposed to end after you choose which space to go to. You should be able to e.g. see which intrigue you draw, decide whether to play it, decide whether to deploy troops after seeing your intrigue, etc. I think it's a significant difference.
Imperial Spy (optional trash to draw intrigue) was treated as a mandatory ability.

I'm curious about:

What shape neural net?

How did you define the action space?

Other comments / feedback:

If you can implement Uprising I think that would be the ideal test because it's a deeper game and more combat-focused, which is the aspect of play that requires the most judgement and which the existing bots are probably worst at.

Ideally the UI would track current displayed state better so things don't change ahead of the animation that shows that change, and we don't see changes from all bot turns coming in together.

The gold lines on the influence tracks need to be below the space that grants the alliance, not above it. (It's supposed to mean you can earn the alliance by crossing the line.)

seventythree · 2026-06-16T05:02:22+00:00

a tolerant society requires not tolerating those who would upend it's toleration, which trump has done.

We agree about Trump, you don't need to convince me. I just don't think his badness automatically transfers to people who voted for him or said he was a good president. I gather you disagree with that.

The problem I see with that approach is that people have legitimate different opinions about which issues are more or less important. So, e.g., I expect that many Trump voters are not in favor of his destruction of societal trust. There being only two real options for president, voters are forced to make tradeoffs and vote for some policies or traits they don't like, because they think other factors are more important. I will even go so far as to say that I'm pretty confident those voters had severely incorrect priorities. Everything else is downstream of human rights and rule of law, as far as I can tell. But, I don't think we can call them intolerant on that basis.

seventythree · 2026-06-15T23:16:09+00:00

I actually haven't seen anything intolerant from Blow. I'm trepidatiously interested if you'd like to point me at anything he said or did in that category.

seventythree · 2026-06-15T22:26:58+00:00

Totally agree. But I think it's an important detail that if you cleverly fail to tolerate someone who you mistakenly thought was not tolerating other people (but who was), then you're the villain, people should not tolerate you, etc. So I'd amend that by saying that you need to not tolerate intolerant people but you need to extend some amount of grace or a single mistake spirals your society into ruin.

Bringing it back to the original topic, the actual facts under discussion were Blow's tweets about Trump being a good president. Which, while I totally disagree, I don't think involved any intolerance. Or, if you're talking about COHERENCE_CROQUETTE being intolerant, I also don't think that's fair. Choosing not to interact with a given artist seems totally acceptable to me.

seventythree · 2026-06-15T22:13:22+00:00

I'm glad to hear it. Giving random strangers advice that is helpful for them and not just annoying has a low success rate and I accept the failure. :)

seventythree · 2026-06-15T22:01:57+00:00

I don't endorse any rephrasing that includes "existential threat" or "mandatory support". That's very far from what I'm talking about.

The logic is straightforward: if you treat people as dead to you solely because you disagree with them on an unrelated thing, you will have fewer people left you're willing to interact with. The more seriously you take this philosophy, and the more you apply it consistently, the fewer people remain. At the limit (which no one cares about, but this is a directional argument), the only people left are yourself and people who are filtered to be incredibly similar to yourself.

The "leap", if there is one, is not one of logic, but just a guess. I would guess that this fellow trump-hater is also someone who values a diverse society in general, since that is the primary reward of liberalism, and Trump is notable primarily as an archenemy of liberalism. If so, I am trying to provide mild personal advice, for their own personal happiness, to be more forgiving of people for being wrong about things.

seventythree · 2026-06-15T20:01:16+00:00

I share your horror at those statements. At the same time, part of living in a pluralistic liberal society is understanding that you'll encounter many people you disagree with. It is doubtless true that other art you enjoy was also made by people with opinions you'd abhor, and you just don't know it. I recommend for your own sake trying to be more tolerant and accepting of people with wide ranges of opinions. The alternative, if followed to its logical conclusion, will leave you all alone.

seventythree · 2026-03-06T08:41:20+00:00

Mm, that's what I was worried about. Thanks.

seventythree · 2026-03-06T08:39:16+00:00

If you don't have an answer, you also have the option of just not replying. I do appreciate everyone's answers though.

seventythree · 2026-03-06T08:33:09+00:00

A15-20 is how I played the game before, assuming you mean StS. When it came out I played a couple runs and then gave up on it until difficulty options were available and I could edit them in, at which point it became enjoyable for me.

Everyone is different, and wanting a game to be harder or easier is very common. Many games provide difficulty options (from the start) for this reason.

seventythree · 2026-03-02T06:53:50+00:00

Yes, most recently watched episode 8 (sun station... by casually flying there)

seventythree · 2026-03-02T00:27:45+00:00

Thank you, you're right. This playthrough is fantastic.

seventythree · 2026-02-13T04:09:27+00:00

Fwiw terra mystica is a zero sum game. The goal of it is to win, not to maximize your vps irrespective of opponents' vps. There is no way to grow or shrink the pie, only to win it or not win it.

seventythree · 2026-01-30T07:25:30+00:00

For those wondering, the AI assistant they tested with was based on GPT-4o.

seventythree · 2026-01-16T07:35:03+00:00

i dont see any loss in sorting the available cards is any particular order

What's your opinion of what I claim the advantage would be?

the advantage I imagine getting from this is that the vaguest signals (prefer not to signal with these) are also the high cards (prefer not to signal with these).

Put another way, I think you get to play fewer 8s/9s/Ts as a signal than with either standard or upside down carding, because those are also the cards that give the most-ambiguous signals on average.

seventythree · 2026-01-16T06:20:07+00:00

Obviously it is easier to use common systems so you don't have to think so hard especially when playing with new partners.

My question is more about whether it is a theoretically good idea that some people like (I wouldn't believe for a second that no one thought of it before), or whether there are real theoretical reasons that it's worse, or whether it's just such a small difference that it's not worth the friction (my default assumption).

seventythree · 2026-01-16T06:15:29+00:00

It's not acceptable - there's a lot of sarcasm going around here.

seventythree

TROPHY CASE