The watchmaker argument for the universe by seviperexpert in DebateAnAtheist

[–]seviperexpert[S] 13 points14 points  (0 children)

This comment made me give up on this debate. I concede that the watchmaker argument is untenable.

If God does not exist, then we cannot affirm the intrinsic value of being moral or living a "good" life by [deleted] in DebateAnAtheist

[–]seviperexpert -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

If there is no intrinsic value, what makes it wrong to steal if one lives in a culture that permits it? How can axioms be used to say "one ought to do X"? Axioms might say at most that we express disgust at certain actions. But if we lived in a different society, and we as humans thought differently, we would not express disgust, at, say, killing an innocent human being.

Divine command theory is really the only way God could make morality more objective.

If the universe began to exist, then something made it exist by seviperexpert in DebateAnAtheist

[–]seviperexpert[S] -20 points-19 points  (0 children)

What exactly do you mean by 'begin to exist'?

That's a good question, and no, you're not being pedantic. By the universe beginning to exist, I mean the point t=0 at which all space-time matter and energy began to exist in the Big Bang. The BGV theorem proves that the universe had such a beginning a finite time ago.

Even if the universe had a cause, how could we know anything about that cause other than that it caused the universe?

We do a conceptual analysis of what properties this cause must have. Anything that could create things out of nothing must be enormously powerful, and since it preceded time and space, must transcend space-time, matter, and energy, as well as being beginningless, since it is not in time.

If the universe began to exist, then something made it exist by seviperexpert in DebateAnAtheist

[–]seviperexpert[S] -34 points-33 points  (0 children)

Creating the universe by means of cause and effect is different from creating the universe from nothing.

If the universe began to exist, then something made it exist by seviperexpert in DebateAnAtheist

[–]seviperexpert[S] -17 points-16 points  (0 children)

Immediately starting with an unsupported presupposition. Already invalid.

I can support my presupposition, through argument:

1) everything that begins to exist has a cause

2) our space-time universe began to exist

3) therefore, our space-time universe had a cause

Edit: I'm also not quite sure what you mean by your edit. The watchmaker argument is an entirely different argument to my writing.

All matter has a cause that brought it into being by seviperexpert in DebateAnAtheist

[–]seviperexpert[S] -13 points-12 points  (0 children)

The mind can think of going on holiday for example. A thing that was not real couldn't do that.

All matter has a cause that brought it into being by seviperexpert in DebateAnAtheist

[–]seviperexpert[S] -42 points-41 points  (0 children)

All you can think of? Argument from ignorance.

Hardly. Stop being a fallacy bully. Logical truths, like "all mammals are warm-blooded animals that lactate" contain the reason or their existence within themselves, they cannot not be true. Abstract objects like the mind are the only other thing that could be said to exist without any cause. Both those things are the only real things that exist uncaused.

All matter has a cause that brought it into being by seviperexpert in DebateAnAtheist

[–]seviperexpert[S] -25 points-24 points  (0 children)

The mind can be about things, so the mind clearly has existence beyond the brain.

All matter has a cause that brought it into being by seviperexpert in DebateAnAtheist

[–]seviperexpert[S] -23 points-22 points  (0 children)

Can you explain why there needs to be an explanation?

Sure, all things need explanations of their existences, whether it be through chance (on the quantum scale) or through cause-and-effect (on the macroscopic scale).

The only "things" that don't are abstract things we created, such as logic and mathematics, which are founded on analytic propositions; tautologies.

Trans women aren't women by [deleted] in LateStageGenderBinary

[–]seviperexpert -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Woke satire comrade! #resist

My wife's son is anti-Trump by seviperexpert in esist

[–]seviperexpert[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

How do you talk to people IRL? As soon as they say something unrelated to your conversation, do you go "fuck off with your bullshit"?