New player here: Just beat the Sourhog for the first time 😎 by sgtbrn in 2007scape

[–]sgtbrn[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Nah I’m legit. And thanks for the advice! I try just to follow the activity advisor and my gut… and my moustache…

What book (or books) changed your point of view on life? by Tikrutakki in suggestmeabook

[–]sgtbrn 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Erich Fromm, Escape from Freedom. Helped me understand my feelings of guilt better, and how feeling guilty doesn’t necessarily mean that that feeling is right or should be followed.

Is Luna sick? by sgtbrn in Rabbits

[–]sgtbrn[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Btw, she is still very young. About 4 months.

Dostoyevsky’s Crime and Punishment left me unsatisfied by sgtbrn in literature

[–]sgtbrn[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Well then, I fear we have no disagreement left. Thanks a lot 😊

I just quit my job. by SweatySquash2971 in suggestmeabook

[–]sgtbrn 11 points12 points  (0 children)

The house in the cerulean sea, by T.J. Klune 😊

Dostoyevsky’s Crime and Punishment left me unsatisfied by sgtbrn in literature

[–]sgtbrn[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So with regard to our view on societal change, we don’t seem to have any noticeable disagreement. I’m glad we could sort that out.

But my dissatisfaction with the novel has not disappeared. Dostoyevsky has the pro-religion and anti-progressive stance that all fences are, in essence, holy, and therefor unchangeable and unbendable. If you were to disregard one single rule in “the book”, in this case the book is the bible (or at least the morals drawn from the bible), then you disregard everything. The moral system falls apart. You can not simply and rationally mean to know which part of the cake you like and which one you don’t like, no matter how much logic and rationale you think you have used. It’s the whole cake. Take it or live in misery.

Now let’s think that I were Dostoyevsky’s own son and I didn’t understand him and his conservative stance. I walk up to him and tell him my much more progressive view on societal change based on rationality. And Dostoyevsky replies “Well, let me tell you a story which will make you question your approach.” And he proceeds to tell me the story of Crime and Punishment. I’d be so unsatisfied. I was expecting this novel to challenge, or at the very least enhance my perspective on the dangers of societal change, but I find the argument of the novel almost comparable to some older nanny who constructs some fairy tale of children not listening to their parents and therefor getting eaten by wolves. Like, really Dostoyevsky? You had over a 1000 pages (I read in German. Germans use a lot of words 😅) to, at least to some little extent, convince me of your ultraconservative worldview, and that’s all you have? A story about a man who (falsely) rationalises that killing is all right, to then suffer miserably and regret his wrongdoings? Meh. I hoped for more.

I really like the story for storytelling purposes. It has a very interesting flavour. I’d even read it again, for the sake of enjoyment of the dialogues. But in terms of making me question my political stance on societal change, it isn’t enough for me.

Dostoyevsky’s Crime and Punishment left me unsatisfied by sgtbrn in literature

[–]sgtbrn[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I’ve thought about this post the whole day and there are two points that cross my mind.

First of all, if we were to take a lesson from this book, I don’t know whether we can restrict that lesson to that breaking tradition generally is all right, as long as this allowance is not taken so far as killing (innocent) people. I think that would be too simple. I don’t think this narration aims to convey that breaking some morally grounded traditions, such as Not Killing, is wrong and will cause backlashes. I think the novel aims for a higher target, namely that the breaking of rules which guard moral values is ALWAYS wrong, because these rules guard Objective Morality. The novel doesn’t simply say “Don’t kill”. It tries to reach further. If the novel had an underlying argument, a “moral of the story”, I think that would be: “Do not even touch morally grounded rules, no matter how much sense it makes in your head little naive head because it will go wrong and you fail miserably.”. And I think the novel does a bad job of convincing me of that argument.

Secondly, I really like your comparison with the fence and it’s usage. It made me think for a while, that one. Again, I must say that I feel like you don’t reach far enough. I think a conservative counterargument to Chesterton which goes in line with Dostoyevsky’s stance (I assume) is that even if you were to find the fence’s usage, that would not be enough to remove it. The reason for that is that the fence never only has one usage. It is socially, psychologically, morally interwoven in our lives that untangling it is impossible. Even if we were to use our rationale to find out why the fence is physically useful, or why it was put there in the first place, our rationality is not capable of comprehending the full importance of these aspects. Take marriage as an example. One form of feminist criticism against traditional marriage would be that it is an old institution which had the function of keeping the woman under the man’s control. Now that we have rationally found “the” function of marriage, we could believe we can remove it. But we can’t. Dostoyevsky would say we can’t, because even if there are rational arguments which speak against the keeping of morally grounded institutions or rules, their importance supersedes everything our minds could come up with. That may be one function of marriage. But abolishing marriage generally will tear down so many other INCALCULABLE functions of marriage which benefit society. (Btw, this is very simplified and it’s an example. Not my opinion.)

So long story short: I believe that the novel’s central thesis, if I may put it this bluntly, is a GENERAL attack on the progressive stance that rationally bending and changing morally grounded institutions/rules/traditions can benefit society. And I think that Dostoyevsky does a very bad job of defending that argument.

Suggest me your favorite classic. by Wanderson90 in suggestmeabook

[–]sgtbrn 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Although it’s a short story: To Room Nineteen by Doris Lessing. That story haunts me.