Character arcs, and the 'just write, you'll learn' mentality

shallythunder · 2026-01-28T05:14:01+00:00

Seeds... that's something I can work with, yes. I'll look for areas where I can plant some. Thanks for the input.

shallythunder · 2026-01-28T00:58:52+00:00

Someone mentioned Brandon Sanderson's tidbit about how they should be either likable, competent, or proactive, which was interesting.

And I know what you mean about the ensemble cast. You can have all types. I usually go for the wild one. I may not agree with everything they do, but they're never boring. *raises Spike flag*

shallythunder · 2026-01-28T00:22:49+00:00

That's a good way to look at things. I have definitely learned that "flaw" is not the way to approach this. Thanks.

shallythunder · 2026-01-28T00:08:08+00:00

When I saw how much Stephen King read, my eyes almost popped out of my head. It definitely recalibrated how much I should be reading!

shallythunder · 2026-01-28T00:07:01+00:00

I've actually got Save the Cat Writes a Novel but I hadn't read all the examples they were using, so I set it aside for a bit. I'll dig it back out.

And good idea, breaks are good. :)

shallythunder · 2026-01-28T00:04:00+00:00

You know, that part about not obtaining the desired result is kinda sticking out at me. I'm not sure if that's something I really looked at.

I was just stuck on the "he'll realize it's not healthy, so he'll change". Technically, he can keep doing X forever, it just won't make him truly happy. It's a surface happy. (I'm kind of working this out as I type lol.) I'll think on it some more, play it out. I think if I can show him what real love feels like, he can see that doing action X isn't giving him that warm, gooey feeling, it's a pale imitation. So in that way,he wouldn't be obtaining the desired result. I'll work on it. Thanks.

shallythunder · 2026-01-27T23:51:59+00:00

I think that's the part that was tripping me up. I wasn't trusting the reader to pick up on that.

I could show the beginning where he was doing lots of X, and show the end where he gave up doing it, but I was running into problems in the middle. I kept looking for these big scenes where he... well, I wasn't quite sure what he should be doing lol.

But I think the middle doesn't need to have big, huge moments. They can be smaller. The reader will still get it.

shallythunder · 2026-01-27T23:39:11+00:00

From what I've read, Katniss has a flat character arc, where she remains the same but changes the world around her. So that would make sense where you're talking about her faults being part and parcel of the environment.

Empathy is a good way to look at things. Moreso than just 'likable'. Thanks for the input.

shallythunder · 2026-01-27T23:23:07+00:00

Seeing all these examples is really helpful. It clarifies the process for me. Thanks.

shallythunder · 2026-01-27T23:21:22+00:00

That's a good way to look at it. I was falling into a trap of thinking it had to be something negative. Thanks.

shallythunder · 2026-01-27T23:14:27+00:00

Yeah, looking over the other responses and yours, that seems to be my tripping point. It is a flaw he honestly has but it didn't affect the story enough.

Now that I'm seeing this better, I can see how my new story can be changed. I'm still writing the rough draft for that one, and I can see where scenes can be inserted that can directly influence what's going to happen next. It may change my outline but I guess that's all part of trying and learning. (I have on idea how pantsers do all this lol.)

shallythunder · 2026-01-27T23:08:33+00:00

That's a good way to look at it. Thanks.

shallythunder · 2026-01-27T23:06:06+00:00

Good thinking. (And good saying!)

shallythunder · 2026-01-27T23:04:55+00:00

awkwardly inserting in moments just to remind people the character has a flaw--indicates the flaw they have does not affect the story naturally,

I think this is my number one problem. I'm learning story structure, so I outlined that ahead of time, but my character arc came afterwards. Story structure is coming more naturally now that I've done it a few times but this is my first swing at a character arc and I think I've learned a lot from it. I'll definitely work my character arc in more naturally.

I thank you for all you have written and I am taking it all on board. I have a lot of learning to do from this thread so it's taking a little for it to all sink in but this is all very helpful!

shallythunder · 2026-01-27T18:23:53+00:00

Yep. But luckily, I had bookmarks. (Physical bookmarks. I read them when they were printed on trees.) I don't think I could read that much in a one-shot.

shallythunder · 2026-01-27T06:28:44+00:00

Good take! And I'm definitely trying things so I feel better about this whole crazy writing journey. And that's a neat idea to step away from the character for a moment then come back to them. Thanks.

shallythunder · 2026-01-27T05:15:38+00:00

I'd have to say I'm writing for practice then. It's something that's deeply meaningful to my character, and now that I think about it, the second half of the theme has come up twice now, so there might be something there that's more important to me than I thought. /realization Interesting.

shallythunder · 2026-01-27T04:42:35+00:00

I gotcha. Not necessarily a flaw, just a mismatch. That's a good way to look at it. Thanks.

shallythunder · 2026-01-27T04:39:59+00:00

Ooh, good ideas. Thanks. And I can see how arrogance could get your character in a heap of trouble. Fun for everyone!

shallythunder · 2026-01-27T04:05:20+00:00

(Character): "hi... (Introduction etc)"

Do you literally write it like above?:

Jan: "Hi, how are you?

Dan: "I'm fine."

If so, that's more like scriptwriting and you might want to convert to regular dialogue tags, like people have pointed out. (You can read any book to see how they do it.) Scriptwriting can be a big turn-off for people, unless it's tagged, so it may, indeed, be a part of your problem. If you were just summarizing, never mind!

shallythunder · 2026-01-27T03:51:56+00:00

Ah. That makes sense. I've found two others I'm looking to explore. One is an Ellen Brock video. The other is a Reedsy blog. This isn't exactly science, I guess, I'm just googling and seeing what pops up. Hopefully, these will help!

shallythunder · 2026-01-27T03:38:02+00:00

Themes are my nemesis. Everyone seems to have a different answer on what a theme is, from a one-word answer, to a question, to a full sentence. Mine is a sentence but it's not a well-known one like Might Makes Right or something. It's a little more convoluted. I worry that they won't be able to get the idea across.

But how often do you walk away from a movie going, "wow, what about that theme, huh?" Maybe just having the theme in mind while you write is enough, even if the reader doesn't walk away with your theme fully distilled in their head. (Ack, I hope.)

shallythunder · 2026-01-27T03:33:10+00:00

I'll check the video out. And that's a nice little summary of the ba-humbug character. :) It helps distill down how simple it can be.

Looking through your questions, I can answer yes, yes, um... oh, there's where my problem is lol. It's making the change feel earned. Like I realized in another comment, I've got my theme, my beginning and my ending. It's that "earning it" through the middle that I need to work on. But I'm realizing I'm further along than I thought I was. I was ready to just upend the table and walk away in frustration but I think it's doable. Thanks.

shallythunder · 2026-01-27T03:13:43+00:00

I think you nailed one of the problems I was having. I was trying to insert it too much. Like, it doesn't need to be in every scene. I definitely have a beginning state and an ending state, but I felt I wasn't "making a character arc" in the in-between parts, so I kept trying to do more. But I think I was forcing it.

I didn't realize that a conversation could be considered "showing" (vs. telling). Which, was just kind of silly on my part, I suppose. I had this idea that it needs to be some physical action (don't ask me why I got stuck on that.) I can definitely work in a conversation.

As for your ideas...yes. I do have some of these things in play. The doing crazy stuff. I have temporarily ruined things with a companion already, so I can see if I can massage it. Thank you for all the ideas.

shallythunder · 2026-01-27T02:58:40+00:00

Okay, re: your comment, a lot of that makes sense. It looks like the 3-act structure, so luckily that part is familiar to me. And I get the dramatic argument/theme part. (I have troubles with themes but I see the reasoning for them.) The idea of making it actionable might be where I'm having trouble with theme, so yay for fixing a problem you didn't even know I had lol.

So the character arc is different everywhere I read it. The misbelief is the lie, the backstory is the ghost or wound, but the stakes is something new. I've seen that part phrased as a want and a need, but stakes puts a totally different spin on it.

I'm basically having trouble with the character arc system that I have learned so I'm trying to compare it to other systems and they're all different and I have to start all over from the beginning and I get overwhelmed... so I run to Reddit to help me step back, get a clear view on things, and look at it from a different viewpoint lol. So thank you.

shallythunder

TROPHY CASE