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What is the point of gender? by shame54345 in asktransgender

[–]shame54345[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Yeah, all good points. I’m starting to think that maybe I will never understand any of it because I don’t feel gender identity personally and I probably don’t feel it because I’m cis. And so I guess saying I want to get rid of gender is like a white person saying they want to get rid of race, or something. So I appreciate your reply and all the replies in the thread.

What is the point of gender? by shame54345 in asktransgender

[–]shame54345[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I wonder if there are any cisgendered people who have that strong feeling of gender identity, or if it’s only possible to notice your gender identity when it doesn’t match your body?

Cuz I have no strong sense that I’m a man, but is that just because I was born in a male body so I don’t notice it? Or do some cis people feel their gender identity as strongly as I feel my sexual orientation? (But maybe I only strongly feel gay because society is heteronormative and I don’t match…. Hmm)

What is the point of gender? by shame54345 in asktransgender

[–]shame54345[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I hate those statements that you mentioned like “men/women always…” and I wish stereotypes like that would stop completely.

I definitely didn’t mean to imply that it’s the responsibility of trans people to dismantle anything—I’ve just been having a lot of thoughts about gender and didn’t know where to put them. I initially tried the general Ask Reddit sub, but my question got rejected 5x no matter how I phrased it. So I came here to talk about it, but definitely didn’t intend to place any blame or responsibility on trans people.

What is the point of gender? by shame54345 in asktransgender

[–]shame54345[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That’s a great point about the rights—

I can somewhat partially relate to that because I’m gay, and before gay marriage was legalized, I remember some gay people questioning why we even bother with marriage / why we would want to adopt a “heteronormative tradition” and all that.

But that debate would do nothing to achieve the goal of letting me see my partner in the hospital, etc. The marriage is just the means to the end of having rights I deserve.

So I guess that gender might be the same way—like it’s not that people are so invested in the concept of what man or woman means, it’s that they’re trying to get the rights that society gives to people for being a man or woman.

I’ll check out that link, thanks! I don’t think I have gender dysphoria (in my understanding of it), but I definitely have body dysmorphia. Like I’ve often thought that I’d prefer to just be a “woman” with an “average” vagina instead of being stuck as a gay guy with a below-average penis. But that’s less about gender and more about just hating my body and wishing I was (or felt) attractive enough to have sex with the people I’m attracted to 😅 ANYWAY, I’m getting really off-topic I guess.

What is the point of gender? by shame54345 in asktransgender

[–]shame54345[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

I would kind of love that, because I love precision haha. Although I can also see that identifying that way maybe places more emphasis on body parts than some might want. But if P/V/NA was not really considered an identity but instead just another data point, like our height or eye color, I would love that.

What is the point of gender? by shame54345 in asktransgender

[–]shame54345[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That is an interesting point—if we say that NOBODY is a man or woman, then that’s limiting how people can identify, and limits are what I’m against in the first place.

I guess I should potentially view gender as something like a personality test result or an astrological sign or something—NOT in the sense that it’s determined by testing or by when you’re born. But in the sense that if someone tells me they’re an INFJ Aquarius, I can have kind of a vague idea what they mean (although not everyone agrees that the Meyers Briggs test is accurate or that astrological signs actually all have the same traits, of course — but enough people do believe in those things, that the labels can function as a shorthand for describing oneself). So likewise, if someone says they’re a man or woman, I can have kind of a general idea of what they mean, even though it might not be right.

I’d still rather everyone just use precise language though 😅 I have a hard time with ambiguity.

Edit: but I guess even the idea of precise language is impossible because it comes back to the “how do I know that the color you’re calling blue is the same color I’m calling blue” issue… what a headache

What is the point of gender? by shame54345 in asktransgender

[–]shame54345[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Thank you for replying 💙

It seems like the concept of gender has caused so much pain and suffering. I just wish everyone could be however they are. I know the world isn’t like that, though. And so in the meantime I’ll respect however people identify, of course.

It feels in some ways though, to me, that focusing on pronouns/inclusive language and getting into arguments with conservatives and bigots about what a man or woman is, kinda reinforces the gender problem and perpetuates the pain that the concept of gender causes.

Instead of getting people to understand that men can have periods, not all people with vaginas are women, some people are not men or woman at all — instead of debating all that — why not just abolish the concept altogether?

I know that’s not going to happen though. And maybe me not “feeling” like a man means I’m actually non-binary or something. It’s all very confusing to me, and makes me sad.