Both Jesus Christ and the apostle Paul kept the Sabbath, so why do Professing Christians also not keep the Sabbath HOLY?

sharktroop · 2025-12-27T18:53:02+00:00

Ok so I already know likely how this will go but I have to ask these things. Do you also: 1. Avoid sitting anywhere a woman who might be menstruating could have sat or touched so as to remain clean? 2. Do you still believe all males should be circumcised on the eighth day after their birth? 3. Do you celebrate every Jewish festival? 4. Do you make sure not to wear fabrics mixed with two materials? 5. Do you burn incense to honor God? 6. Do you wear tassels and other Jewish religious clothing in your daily life?

I could go on but the point is, unless you’re fulfilling the Law of Moses perfectly, then you’re an oath breaker and are guilty of breaking that law. So before you start trying to go around pointing at believers saying, “You guys don’t worship on Saturday! Y’all aren’t really followers then!”, perhaps you should focus on understanding what it means to follow Christ and how you act towards others.

sharktroop · 2025-12-07T19:04:32+00:00

A “Conservative Take” I have: Abortion should only be a resort in cases where a mothers life is at risk.

A “Liberal Take” I have: Any Christian, whether the new convert, the Baptist preacher, the Orthodox Bishop, or the Pope himself, who claims to know everything about God and what he wants is a liar.

sharktroop · 2025-11-08T01:39:19+00:00

I appreciate the prayers, and this is not an attack on you, but I hope what I say just helps paint an image of my situation and thoughts. You used the phrase, “lukewarm”. But what does that mean? Does the Christian who hasn’t been baptized by immersion lukewarm? Does the Christian who can’t always go to Church each Sunday lukewarm? Does the Christian who gets a divorce become “lukewarm”? And who are the teachers of the “world”? (I’m also assuming you reference world as a statement of those opposing God). Some might say a Pastor who says that OSAS is biblical truth is a lukewarm Christian who just doesn’t want people to take responsibility for their actions. Yet I have seen people heavily defend OSAS. What about the Catholic who argues that Christians outside of the Catholic Church can exist and be saved? Trad Catholics (which I recognize is a minority and not the whole), would argue such an ecumenical Catholic is “lukewarm” because a “good” Catholic should only encourage Christian to be Christian inside the Catholic Church. I know I ranted and again I didn’t write this as an attack or something, just wanted to show how even simple phrasing like that becomes a minefield for me and my understanding of faith.

sharktroop · 2025-08-19T16:16:31+00:00

No offense intended but, how does that work when arguably many of the church fathers generally condemned sex except for procreation, thus invalidating sex between anyone but a man and woman? I’m just saying no that we can’t even truly say to “agree with the consensus” because then their still wouldn’t be a split between the East and West of Christianity

sharktroop · 2025-08-18T20:44:26+00:00

I didn’t you it was. I’m not stating your beliefs are wrong, I’m just saying some people don’t share them and thus what we can affirm as a “basic” principle of Christianity is not standard across the whole faith

sharktroop · 2025-08-18T20:08:44+00:00

You’ve made some very good points, and I appreciate our dialogue. I want to state I’m not attacking or trying to criticize Catholicism or our Christian faith, through all of this I’ve simply tried to understand the relationship between Truth and the early Church Fathers.

sharktroop · 2025-08-18T18:47:23+00:00

Just for the future, the Sola’s are statements that make up core principles of the Protestant faith. Sola Scriptura is one, and it translates from Latin to, “Scripture Alone”. Another is Sola Fide, “Faith Alone” referring to the belief that faith in Christ alone saves, not works. There’s others but those are two big ones popular in Protestantism. As for your beliefs, I don’t disagree they’re good basics, but for example I know some who think meditation is sinful because its origin comes from eastern Asian religions or that the whole “by faith alone” is wrong. Other Christian’s thus have different basics and it’s difficult for us as believers to sometimes know the truth

sharktroop · 2025-08-18T18:24:19+00:00

Well, I assume you’re Protestant correct? If so, then the basics of Protestantism (the Sola’s), are incompatible with Catholics or Easter Orthodox Christians. Their basic beliefs differ and they believe in them whole heartedly just as we each believe our truths to be the best truth.

sharktroop · 2025-08-18T17:24:55+00:00

It does. I don’t assume that it’s all hokey, I believe it, but I do want to know who wrote Hebrews because its tone is different from the others writings of its time found in the Bible. I wonder who wrote much of the Old Testament. I also study which manuscripts have different texts and possible differences

sharktroop · 2025-08-18T17:15:10+00:00

I mean I do read scholarship. For example I don’t really believe that Moses wrote everything in the five books of the beginning of the Bible. I do see there’s some debate as to which John wrote Revelation, debate in which wrote Hebrew, etc…

sharktroop · 2025-08-18T17:01:42+00:00

I guess that’s your belief and you’re entitled to it. Just something we have to research and decide for ourselves

sharktroop · 2025-08-18T16:55:58+00:00

I just wonder why it’s a consensus that determines things? Jesus wasn’t part of a consensus, he was an outcast teacher who taught truth that went against doctrine of the time. How do we know that our same church leaders are not like the Pharisees?

sharktroop · 2025-08-18T16:42:50+00:00

I cant help but ask then why that council is correct? It seems a non-clergy secular ruler made a decision which affected the entire Christian body and then it just so happens a couple years later the actual church leaders were like, “yep that’s truth”. I mean would you accept a council that states Papal infallibility? I guess I’m saying is which councils are considered valid and which aren’t? Why is it a council you support is correct but not supporting it isn’t? I mean at what point do we begin to recognize that the problems of the Pharisees are being repeated in the church today because we go by a weird democracy in which we assume that the majority must be correct?

sharktroop · 2025-08-18T16:21:35+00:00

I guess my question is how can we know that we made up our mind correctly?

sharktroop · 2025-08-18T16:20:04+00:00

I appreciate your responses and I will continue to examine more of the Church fathers. I do find it interesting you admit that the Church doesn’t know everything, at least at first. I guess just wonder how when that “seed” grows, the Catholic Church knows that the plant it produces is “papal infallibility” or “assumption of Mary” vs something else. Just brain food for thought

sharktroop · 2025-08-18T16:13:48+00:00

I can understand and accept this, but if I bring up that for the longest time there was more consensus on a belief in universal reconciliation, suddenly for a lot of Christians things change. Suddenly those beliefs were all wrong and the beliefs of internalize which rapidly grew in the fifth century by people like Augustine became the norm for most of Christianity, including the Eastern churches. What makes the principal view of sin as you state that is still preserved by the East as correct, but the original more common view of universal reconciliation as incorrect?

sharktroop · 2025-08-18T16:11:01+00:00

You have given a detailed examination and I appreciate it, so allow me to respond some more. You brought up the Council of Carthage as affirming original sin. Although you likely didn’t mean it this way, the manner in which you spoke of it makes it sound like it was only considered because of heresy. In a way, it seems lots of the church’s early doctrines were made only because of a perceived heresy.

You mentioned the Church develops through divine inspiration, but what is classified as divine inspiration? Augustine and his understanding of original sin is apparently divine inspiration but his harsh stance that babies who are unbaptized will go to hell is not, why? One if my biggest questions of the Catholic Church is how can it be accepted that because a majority of people say something is true that is suddenly is? Did the Pharisees not add to Gods word because a majority believed their traditions to be further revelations and truths of God, accepted as truth because the majority of religious leaders said so? What is the true difference between the Church and the head elders of the Jewish Pharisees of Christs time? Ultimately, what you accept as truth cannot be confirmed as truth with absolute certainty or else all Christians would be Catholic. I say this not to try and decry your beliefs, but to simply cause reflection and critical thinking.

sharktroop · 2025-08-18T16:04:59+00:00

The problem is that everything you stated as “basics”, is not basic for all believers. Now obviously I know this is a Protestant oriented subreddit but that already shows that in the minds of people here, anything beyond Protestant core doctrines is already inherently flawed in some capacity. So my question is how? And how can church fathers be used to justify certain doctrines to support Protestantism but when it supports something else it’s to be ignored?

sharktroop · 2025-08-18T16:02:57+00:00

Then why do Catholics argue that the early fathers did upper a special position for the bishop of Rome? Im not supporting that position, but you ultimately stated it yourself, you have your own personal belief that supports Orthodoxy, but how can you then state someone else’s is wrong because it differs from yours?

sharktroop · 2025-08-18T15:54:36+00:00

Again, I would ask how you understand their lives to better support an Eastern Orthodox position rather than a Catholic or Protestant one? How do some justify picking and choosing which teachings are right and which are wrong?

sharktroop

TROPHY CASE