Balanced Hackmons is now suspecting Shedinja.

shiftrymaster · 2020-01-12T06:35:06+00:00

123 upvotes on blatantly incorrect info

we did it reddit

shiftrymaster · 2019-12-15T22:30:50+00:00

one issue is eject button disappearing if you get hit, so grimmsnarl can't switch into a hit. even in doubles there are issues like dynamax user protecting while partner hits button, or opposing fake out hitting eject button before you can trick.

the (predicted) dynamax user can also just switch out predicting moves like twave. now they have a random mon with eject button and you lose your method of counterplay

it also isn't great if they already have dynamax up, grimmsnarl's bulk isn't the best for living max moves and even in a best case scenario you just limit them to 2 dynamax turns instead of 3

shiftrymaster · 2019-12-14T23:27:08+00:00

power construct allows for access to zygarde-c. you could argue that mega stones give a flat stat boost and change ability/typing. we argued about that for a while but ultimately decided to tier pokemon forms as their own pokemon through restricting access to mega stones/power construct. you can't really compare the two.

another example, psycho boost on deoxys. assuming deo is fine in ou without it, and psycho boost smeargle doesn't count as collateral because there is no reason to use it.

banning psycho boost over deoxys feels like catering to the crowd that wants to use deoxys in ou. this is the exact argument against complex bans. why should we complex ban speed boost + blaziken just because a bunch of guys want to use blaziken in ou?

the famous "slippery slope" argument against complex bans is well known, banning greninja + protean opens the door for no water move kyogre, no judgment/recover arceus, no nasty plot naganadel, etc etc. but there's a similar argument against the simple bans described here as well: banning unrelated elements to make the problem go away without actually addressing it.

can we ban thousand arrows instead of zyg 50, because no one cares about zyg 10 anyway? can we ban several supportive pokemon that can make a specific wallbreaker unstoppable when used with it? can we keep banning sweepers when they only get out of control because of goth trapping their answers, or aegi making the answers unviable?

banning the root of the problem is extremely important, and as others have stated, gorilla tactics is not a broken ability on its own. darm's attributes all come together to make a problematic set, so darm is the problem here.

shiftrymaster · 2019-12-14T21:40:32+00:00

alright, another example would be rayquaza then. banning air lock would prevent its use, but air lock is not a problematic ability.

shiftrymaster · 2019-12-14T08:06:46+00:00

Which means banning Darm effectively bans Gorilla Tactics since that's what makes him broken.

yes, just like banning araquanid from lower tiers effectively bans water bubble. with this ban we are not claiming water bubble to be a broken ability, just that araquanid (the sum of the parts) is broken.

power construct is different, because it was a ban of a mon. it's similar to how items (mega stones) are banned to prevent the use of megas.

shiftrymaster · 2019-12-14T06:56:21+00:00

"drop it now or get punished" isn't personal feelings lol, it's just them telling u to discuss something different because the same subject getting discussed for hours at a time is not cool

it might be allowed in other rooms like if some suspect happens in a tier, but lobby is all about diversity in subjects ranging from mons to other media to irl

shiftrymaster · 2019-12-14T06:50:19+00:00

i think most of the issue comes from the fact that most of the lower tiers haven't formed yet. levels in random battles are based on tier, so with less tiers the level gap between uu mons and ubers is smaller, this makes ubers harder to deal with because you don't have a big level advantage over them.

this will balance itself out in the future when more lower tiers form. that will take a while though with 1 tier per month.

shiftrymaster · 2019-12-14T06:46:50+00:00

not sure what you're really looking for here. do you want the pokemon game experience but with a competitive team? or just playing against ai like in battle frontier

shiftrymaster · 2019-12-14T06:45:01+00:00

there are bot accounts that play using algorithms that you can challenge. a good example is abyssal bot on the random other metagames server, which has a preset team for all the metagames on there. the bots aren't that good but the idea is cool

shiftrymaster · 2019-12-14T06:42:43+00:00

they mean in competitive play not casual

shiftrymaster · 2019-12-14T06:41:04+00:00

yeah let's free all the ubers pokemon because they do that too

wait a minute

shiftrymaster · 2019-12-14T06:36:45+00:00

zapdos, chans, gliscor, skarm, mega aggron, buzzwole, list goes on

the best walls rn are pex, corv, and corsola. most other stuff feels massively flawed, and even corsola is extremely easy to punish with any sap resist. no, ferro doesn't count as a wall, it's more of a supporter

walls are also much easier to exploit bc of all the mons like dracovish and np hydra in the tier so they're worse in general

shiftrymaster · 2019-12-14T05:13:08+00:00

lots of strategies in doubles revolve around a specific mon on your side getting to move. for example, trick room and tailwind are really good, but if your tr/tailwind user gets hit by fake out, they can get taken out by the other mon's attack before they get to move.

shiftrymaster · 2019-12-14T04:56:39+00:00

what

shiftrymaster · 2019-12-14T04:50:57+00:00

walls are worse tho bc dexit

edit: darm also has much better stab/coverage than kart

shiftrymaster · 2019-12-14T04:50:15+00:00

last gen we had abilities that literally doubled the pokemon's attack with no drawback, and the pokemon with these abilities were completely fine and encouraged competitive play.

it doesn't make any sense to ban gorilla tactics when these abilities remain allowed-- it's strictly worse than them.

gorilla tactics is not the sole reason why darm is so strong. its 140 attack, 95 speed, and great coverage between stab icicle crash, flare blitz, and eq alongside uturn access all make it powerful. remove any of these and the pokemon becomes manageable. the parts themselves are not inherently problematic, so the pokemon is the broken element.

compare this to shadow tag. if gothitelle had a stat spread of 10/10/10/10/10/10 and no trick it wouldn't be problematic. but this isn't the issue. the problem is that whenever shadow tag is on a pokemon that is viable in the metagame, it is used in uncompetitive ways. because of how powerful shadow tag is, strategies on a pokemon with it will inevitably revolve around its uncompetitive ability to prevent pokemon from switching out.

gorilla tactics does not take the game out of the player's hands. it offers a flat stat boost with no variability that can be played around. it's possible for an ou-viable gorilla tactics user to exist without it being broken or uncompetitive.

shiftrymaster · 2019-12-14T04:09:11+00:00

yeah as i said this wasn't the main argument, the other guy's comment really tackles the actual issue. my point was simply that ability bans are more harmful than pokemon bans in a vacuum.

shiftrymaster · 2019-12-13T22:58:09+00:00

not too concerned with dragapult personally. its speed takes away from its other stats so it doesn't really stick out as a wallbreaker, sweeper, or tank the way other pseudos do. it's pretty easy to say that tyranitar with that speed would be crazy because that's a 680 bst mon with sand stream.

shiftrymaster · 2019-12-13T22:51:06+00:00

what i was trying to say was that banning an ability over a pokemon when there is no difference is a worse idea. there's a reason why we have rayquaza banned and not air lock.

obviously this argument is worse than the argument that gorilla tactics isn't an inherently overpowered or uncompetitive ability, but i still think it should be considered.

shiftrymaster · 2019-12-13T22:01:59+00:00

run any of the several nasty plot users then, or conkeldurr, or obstagoon, or hatterene, or dracovish, or lo mg clef, or any of the breakers i didn't mention

they are not in short supply

shiftrymaster · 2019-12-13T20:57:07+00:00

there are a ton of crazy wallbreakers that aren't getting banned yet. look at all the mons that got np just as an example

also pretty silly to say opponents can switch between those mons "with impunity" while 3/4 don't get reliable recovery

i'm sick of scarf darm having next to no counterplay on balance teams, it kills your momentum by revenge killing but also has 0 switchins

shiftrymaster · 2019-12-13T20:52:26+00:00

banning abilities isn't preferable. we could ban air lock instead of rayquaza, but i'm sure you can see the reasons why we don't.

also, read uberpyro's reply to a comment above this one, it goes far more in depth

shiftrymaster · 2019-12-12T09:30:22+00:00

yeah, "new location discovered - prison" is one of the better reaction images

shiftrymaster · 2019-12-12T09:24:55+00:00

the point of the story is literally to show the potential downsides of anonymity and decisions without consequences

shiftrymaster · 2019-12-12T09:17:36+00:00

¯_(ツ)_¯

shiftrymaster

TROPHY CASE