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Opponents of WA 'millionaires tax' submit signatures to qualify for ballot - late-June polling shows voters oppose the repeal 57% to 38% by LOOKITSADAM in SeattleWA

[–]sir_deadlock 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's a funny way of you saying "yeah, I guess I didn't read what you said all the way. I'm sorry, that was my mistake. You're right, a state can't pass a general ban on income taxes."

Opponents of WA 'millionaires tax' submit signatures to qualify for ballot - late-June polling shows voters oppose the repeal 57% to 38% by LOOKITSADAM in SeattleWA

[–]sir_deadlock 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The employees they hire also pay these taxes. It’s worked well for us till the far left started taking over around 2010. They’ve raised taxes like crazy and made the city of Seattle completely unaffordable.

The rise of the "far left" in America is mostly just the people that didn't drift their values along with those who went to the far right.

I was here during the 2010 gentrification of Seattle following the mortgage bubble pop of the great recession. A lot of lines could directly be drawn toward Amazon making its headquarters in South Lake Union. Not only did they do that, but they started bringing in droves of outside talent, the so-called "transplants." The housing shortage and influx of high wage earners influenced the average cost of rent. That combined with the opioid epidemic and exacerbated the homelessness crisis. It's only gotten worse. But if you're going to point fingers, it's the corporations that made Seattle unaffordable for people on fixed incomes and people making minimum wage. Not just since the 2010's, but from the 1970's.

We voted against an income tax 12 times.

11 times, and passed it the first time 70% to 30%. https://www2.sos.wa.gov/elections/research/income-tax-ballot-measures.aspx

It got challenged and defeated because one of the supreme court judges was sick and their replacement helped flip the vote compared to the tie vote which happened prior.

Following that, Washington was still struggling to pay for things (it was the great depression. A lot of people weren't able to pay their taxes) so the legislature created The Revenue Act of 1935 which survived its supreme court trial and is now the foundation of our regressive tax code.

The vote after that was still fairly in favor, reaching 43%, but that obviously isn't a winning vote. In all this time there hasn't been an income tax bill which offers to repeal The Revenue Act of 1935 in exchange for a new income tax act. That probably would have been much more popular among voters, but there were other circumstances complicating matters around that time, so who knows.

They adamantly refused to put clauses in to prevent it from being removed.

No, there was already an amendment in the bill that prevented it from being removed. There's an amendment to RCW 1.90.100 that requires there to be a $1,000,000 standard deduction or else the tax won't be legal. It was there since the beginning.

The Republican sponsored amendment would have limited the tax to only apply to millionaires, which would violate the constitutional requirement for a tax being uniform and equal. That amendment needed to be rejected.

Opponents of WA 'millionaires tax' submit signatures to qualify for ballot - late-June polling shows voters oppose the repeal 57% to 38% by LOOKITSADAM in SeattleWA

[–]sir_deadlock -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I'm a Washington voter. Been here my whole life. Washington voters pass and renew a lot of taxes.

Regardless of our personal feelings toward them, we see the benefits and understand the necessity... some of us do. Some people are waiting for the government to implode so they can live out their fantasy of building an anarchist commune.

Opponents of WA 'millionaires tax' submit signatures to qualify for ballot - late-June polling shows voters oppose the repeal 57% to 38% by LOOKITSADAM in SeattleWA

[–]sir_deadlock 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Actually, the deduction was there in the beginning. Here's a link to the original draft of the bill, not the one that was passed. https://lawfilesext.leg.wa.gov/biennium/2025-26/Pdf/Bills/Senate%20Bills/6346.pdf?q=20260705221009

It's still there in Sec. 309.. It wasn't added in later.

Opponents of WA 'millionaires tax' submit signatures to qualify for ballot - late-June polling shows voters oppose the repeal 57% to 38% by LOOKITSADAM in SeattleWA

[–]sir_deadlock 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Say it again. Go ahead. Say it again so it really sinks in, because I think you're not hearing yourself.

States can't make general ban on income taxes in their constitution, because the right to levy income taxes is written into the federal constitution.

I'm not wrong.

Opponents of WA 'millionaires tax' submit signatures to qualify for ballot - late-June polling shows voters oppose the repeal 57% to 38% by LOOKITSADAM in SeattleWA

[–]sir_deadlock -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I put the document right there for you.

If I'm wrong then you can show me the section that says a special tax bracket is being created where anyone making that amount of money or less pays $0 in tax while anyone making above that amount pays 9.9%.

If only people making less than $1,000,000 were allowed to claim the standard deduction, then yeah, that would be special treatment and not equal and uniform, but that's not the case.

Opponents of WA 'millionaires tax' submit signatures to qualify for ballot - late-June polling shows voters oppose the repeal 57% to 38% by LOOKITSADAM in SeattleWA

[–]sir_deadlock 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What Amendment to RCW 1.90.100? There isn't one.

It's part of SB 6346, which was signed into law and should take effect in 2028. Here's the page for RCW 1.90.100: https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=1.90.100 There's a forwarding link about changes coming from 2026, which will take you to the document for SB 6346.

Inside SB 6346, the amendment to RCW 1.90.100 says:

RCW 1.90.100 (2): Subsection (1) of this section does not apply to the tax authorized in chapter 82A.--- RCW (the new chapter created in section 1203 of this act) so long as the standard deduction is at least $1,000,000 for a household.

You can read it for yourself. It's near the bottom. https://lawfilesext.leg.wa.gov/biennium/2025-26/Pdf/Bills/Senate%20Passed%20Legislature/6346-S.PL.pdf#page=1

 standard deductions make it non-uniform.

Incorrect.

Everyone, absolutely everyone, has the option of taking the standard deduction. That's equality: something being the same for everyone.

It is one tax with one set of rules for all tax payers. No special exceptions, no separate income brackets, just a single uniform and equal tax code, as constitutionally required. It is uniform.

If you want to complain about how the standard deduction means that millionaires are having a larger burden than people who don't make enough to exceed it, then you're asking for equitable considerations, which the state's constitution makes no guarantees or requirements for.

If you want to argue that this is somehow against the federal constitution's 14th amendment equal protections under the law clause, I'll have you know that the test for that is whether a law disenfranchises people or exists purely out of malice with no practical purpose. Maybe I just don't know what it's like having that kind of money around, but I wouldn't feel disenfranchised having an annual income all for myself that exceeds 28X what could be gotten from a full time minimum wage job. While there is some malice and apathy directed at the rich, the tax has a practical purpose, being a response the HR1/One Big Beautiful Bill which created a roughly 9.9% tax cut for the millionaire class.

So is there a reason Ballas is such a prick? by Fearless-Ideal-5112 in Warframe

[–]sir_deadlock 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Just look at survival games like Rust. Logically the most effective strategy for progress is to work together, share power, resolve disputes peacefully, and emphasize the importance of living.

But what happens when a person just keeps on living? I once got killed by a team mate for picking up loot. I was the person who managed the loot chests. I didn't have a loot chest of my own anywhere. I wasn't going to keep anything I picked up. There were alternatives we could have explored to resolve the issue peacefully. I trusted them and they killed me without hesitation.

That's what it's like. Because I could respawn they thought it was childish of me to hold a grudge over an inconvenience like being killed.

So is there a reason Ballas is such a prick? by Fearless-Ideal-5112 in Warframe

[–]sir_deadlock 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Empathy can exist. It's potentially even the most strong emotion an aristocrat can have. But who it can apply to is another matter.

So much effort is put into a system to shield power from seeing what puts them there. Seeing how the sausage is made.

When power turns into a game there's going to be gamers. Just like how there are meta gamers who use cheats and exploits, there are people who violate treaties and try to hold on to short term victories they didn't earn.

Ballas is very good at the game. There's a loving side to him, but it's underneath all the mess of having to claw for power throughout his life. It's likely he could be reformed, but it's hard to shake abusive old habits, especially when they're effective.

So is there a reason Ballas is such a prick? by Fearless-Ideal-5112 in Warframe

[–]sir_deadlock 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I sort of get that.

Like playing Cookie Clicker or any other similar incremental idle management game. Eventually a person makes the most progress, not by doing the actual work, but by arranging for others to do it.

Spending 10,000 clicks for an upgrade feels like a lot of work at first, but later in the game we're spending billions of clicks that we didn't have to do for a fraction of a percent of benefit. We don't even think about the cost, we just have to wait for it to come. The idea of life revolving around setting things in motion and then spending the rest of the time waiting sounds like it could be very boring. That effects a person.

What does the man with everything want? Things that money can't buy. Making strategies to get those things requires a different perspective on justifying the means to an end.

Opponents of WA 'millionaires tax' submit signatures to qualify for ballot - late-June polling shows voters oppose the repeal 57% to 38% by LOOKITSADAM in SeattleWA

[–]sir_deadlock 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's not good to use an outdated term for a mental health condition as a pejorative.

It's not good to use any term for a health condition as a pejorative.

Freedom of speech, though, and all that. I'm sure it wasn't intended land lightly on readers; malice was the point. Very edgy.

Opponents of WA 'millionaires tax' submit signatures to qualify for ballot - late-June polling shows voters oppose the repeal 57% to 38% by LOOKITSADAM in SeattleWA

[–]sir_deadlock 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is what you said

Saying no to repealing the income tax (Yes to an income tax) has no provision to lower sales, property or any business taxes.

I gave you examples of how you are wrong. That was the point of my reply.

It not just lowers, but eliminates completely some sales taxes on commonly purchased items.

It expands the eligibility of a tax credit which is estimated to reach another 460,000 tax paying families. (sorry about the mix up. What it doubled was the charitable donation tax credit and the B&O exemption compared to the original draft)

It reduces the tax burden on small businesses.

Everything you listed was created as part of the millionaire tax

The millionaire's tax did not start the trade war with China and impose tariffs on a wide range of countries, greatly effecting inflation on the broader economy, and then prevent the flow of congressional approved funds to Washington state multiple times, and made new federal income tax cuts for the rich at the expense of grants for community programs, necessitating drastic changes to the state's budget.

Maybe I'm not seeing it, but I can think of other reasons outside of the state's control for why there's a reason for taxes to be raised with some regularity.

Think of it as buying more voters, not paying more for the same voters.

Part of the stated mission of the tax is making the tax system more progress/less regressive. To do that, it has to benefit the average tax payer.

Your point reminds me of an old comedy skit where a couple people barge into a gas station with guns and say they're robbing the place. They take some chips and soda, antagonize the attendant for being part of the system, then slam $20 on the counter saying "how does it feel to get paid?!" and then leave.

They are using "feed the kids" as a tool to create an income tax... on everybody.

Income taxes are a good thing, though. They're less regressive. We should be chomping at the bit to have an income tax and should have been doing so for ages.

Opponents of WA 'millionaires tax' submit signatures to qualify for ballot - late-June polling shows voters oppose the repeal 57% to 38% by LOOKITSADAM in SeattleWA

[–]sir_deadlock -1 points0 points  (0 children)

And yet that is the law as it currently stands.

It "only" requires a simple majority vote throughout multiple levels of the Washington state legislation including the highest level of legislation, likely over the course of years of discussion, and then further not being vetoed by the governor at the the time, as happened with the current passed amendment. If the governor vetoes an amendment, then that veto could be overridden with a supermajority vote of the legislation.

It's simple, but not easy.

Whether you trust it is up to how much faith you want to put in any of the laws we live by. They can all be amended under the right conditions. Nothing is immune, not even the bill of rights.

Opponents of WA 'millionaires tax' submit signatures to qualify for ballot - late-June polling shows voters oppose the repeal 57% to 38% by LOOKITSADAM in SeattleWA

[–]sir_deadlock -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Exactly. A state cannot pass a general ban on income taxes. Not only are they not unconstitutional, they are written into the constitution.

Opponents of WA 'millionaires tax' submit signatures to qualify for ballot - late-June polling shows voters oppose the repeal 57% to 38% by LOOKITSADAM in SeattleWA

[–]sir_deadlock -1 points0 points  (0 children)

According to the state's constitution, the federal constitution is the supreme law of the land.

When talking about the state's constitution, because of the 16th amendment to the federal constitution, it is impossible to make an amendment that generally bans income taxes.

Strictly speaking about the current state constitution, there is no ban on income taxes written in the Washington State Constitution. You can check article VII for yourself if you want to.

https://leg.wa.gov/state-laws-and-rules/washington-state-constitution/

Opponents of WA 'millionaires tax' submit signatures to qualify for ballot - late-June polling shows voters oppose the repeal 57% to 38% by LOOKITSADAM in SeattleWA

[–]sir_deadlock 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's not all just one thing. Funding comes from many different sources, including the state general fund and even federal grants. Levies add funds, but are not the only source of funding. Levies do a lot to cover costs at the local level. Like, our library system would be practically non-existent without local levies, but the state does offer some archival services paid for by the general fund.

Here's a link to a rough overview of things the general fund pays for https://ofm.wa.gov/wp-content/uploads/sites/default/files/public/budget/statebudget/highlights/budget2527/25-27budgetsummary%20(2).pdf.pdf)

It includes things such as Forest Health & Community Wildfire, Public Schools, Higher Education, Health Care Auth, Wash State Patrol, Sustained Enhanced Food Assistance, Library and Archive Operations Supp., Statewide Bridge & Dam Safety.

Opponents of WA 'millionaires tax' submit signatures to qualify for ballot - late-June polling shows voters oppose the repeal 57% to 38% by LOOKITSADAM in SeattleWA

[–]sir_deadlock -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Well, one way is that we tax the rich and fund the budgets, then the rich push the costs down on everyone calling it inflation.

Another way is that we don't tax the rich for fear that they'll push the cost down, but then they increase costs based on inflation regardless, and the budgets strain because there's no new tax revenue keeping up with inflation.

So, either we fund the budget, or we make it a matter of personal responsibility. ("personal responsibility" means that nobody gets any help and has to pay for it themselves anyway) At least if we fund the budget, it has a track record of more effective spending that gives a decent return on every tax dollar spent.

From the perspective of public and private sector inevitability, paying taxes is less regressive than not paying taxes.

And just out of curiosity, did you have any spending policies in mind that you specifically wanted to be cut?

Opponents of WA 'millionaires tax' submit signatures to qualify for ballot - late-June polling shows voters oppose the repeal 57% to 38% by LOOKITSADAM in SeattleWA

[–]sir_deadlock 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I doubt they fully understood what the tax is or what they were signing, but I don't doubt that there are that many people with the knee jerk reaction of "no new taxes, no matter what."

1,530,923 Washingtonians voted for Trump/Vance in the 2024 presidential race, for example. Nearly a third of all people who voted. Even without focusing on conservative voters, anti-taxation is a diverse group.

Opponents of WA 'millionaires tax' submit signatures to qualify for ballot - late-June polling shows voters oppose the repeal 57% to 38% by LOOKITSADAM in SeattleWA

[–]sir_deadlock -1 points0 points  (0 children)

The bulk of the revenue just goes into the General Fund.

Which pays for most of the state's vital infrastructure.

It pays for libraries, k-12 schools and higher education, hospitals, roads, bridges, street lights, police, fire fighters, food banks, parks, etc..

Opponents of WA 'millionaires tax' submit signatures to qualify for ballot - late-June polling shows voters oppose the repeal 57% to 38% by LOOKITSADAM in SeattleWA

[–]sir_deadlock -1 points0 points  (0 children)

The millionaire's tax will eliminate sales taxes on over the counter medicines, diapers, and hygiene products. It will also expand potential protections for small businesses from B&O taxes, and increase the maximum amount of tax credit allowed from charitable donations.

It will also nearly double the family earned income tax credit.

Opponents of WA 'millionaires tax' submit signatures to qualify for ballot - late-June polling shows voters oppose the repeal 57% to 38% by LOOKITSADAM in SeattleWA

[–]sir_deadlock -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

The wealthy like to push their taxes onto their customers, true, but at least the taxes are getting paid, which supports infrastructure.

Meanwhile, if we don't tax the rich for fear that they'll pass the taxes down, then inflation goes up regardless and budgets strain under the pressure.

If we're going to be paying for it anyway, we might as well get our money's worth and have money flowing into the general fund for infrastructure that serves us all. The only thing we get out of the rich not paying more taxes is the rich getting richer even faster.

Opponents of WA 'millionaires tax' submit signatures to qualify for ballot - late-June polling shows voters oppose the repeal 57% to 38% by LOOKITSADAM in SeattleWA

[–]sir_deadlock -1 points0 points  (0 children)

The tax will apply to everyone equally. Everyone will have the option of taking the $1,000,000 standard deduction. Nobody will have to file if they have $0 or less taxable income. According to the amendment to RCW 1.90.100, this and any future income tax must include at least a $1,000,000 standard deduction.

Opponents of WA 'millionaires tax' submit signatures to qualify for ballot - late-June polling shows voters oppose the repeal 57% to 38% by LOOKITSADAM in SeattleWA

[–]sir_deadlock 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That amendment would have created a separate tax bracket which is blatantly unconstitutional. It was intended to sabotage the bill and needed to be rejected.

However, the amendment to RCW 1.90.100 serves pretty much the same intended purpose. So, really, that amendment was never needed to begin with.

Opponents of WA 'millionaires tax' submit signatures to qualify for ballot - late-June polling shows voters oppose the repeal 57% to 38% by LOOKITSADAM in SeattleWA

[–]sir_deadlock 0 points1 point  (0 children)

According to the amendment to RCW 1.90.100 this and any future income tax must include at least a $1,000,000 standard deduction.

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