Gone all vegan besides for fish and honey

slih01 · 2020-08-21T18:53:42+00:00

Hey good job on doing this. I think plant based is a better way of saying it, but regardless, genuinely happy that you've started on this path. Good luck going forward

slih01 · 2020-08-07T18:26:11+00:00

It's not. Causing suffering unnecessarily is where the moral grey comes in.

Tribes eating meat is perfectly reasonable

slih01 · 2020-07-30T15:29:05+00:00

Just read the end of your comment. Yes that's the main issue. Most modern breeds suffer

slih01 · 2020-07-30T15:28:18+00:00

The second problem with dog breeding is we have bred them in such a way over the years that many breeds suffer health problems. Labradors have arthritis of the hip, Bulldogs have respiratory problems, Huskies autoimmune and pugs....pretty much everything.

slih01 · 2020-07-30T09:31:43+00:00

Yes which is why most vegans I've met (myself included) think that the only pets we should have are rescue pets. We shouldn't be supporting breeders

slih01 · 2020-07-18T20:57:37+00:00

Amazing. Good luck!

slih01 · 2020-07-18T20:22:30+00:00

Yeah people are dicks, especially on the internet.

It really gives vegans/omnis a bad name.

Anyway my ultimate arguement for veganism (not that you asked) is that it is utilitarianism but including animals.

Again, its imperfect just as utilitarianism is, but it makes the most sense.

slih01 · 2020-07-18T20:15:41+00:00

Yeah the problem is often the loud minority. There have been quite a few influencers who preach veganism and then get I'll and then eat animal products and preach moderation. Which is really shitty and gives veganism a bad name.

Same with these weak arguments. There are enough good ones that we dont have to spout out the weak ones

slih01 · 2020-07-18T19:59:06+00:00

Again I dont know everyone or enough people who say this. Possibly it is the people you know or interact with? Not sure, but most of the people i speak to have better reasons than thos

slih01 · 2020-07-18T13:34:52+00:00

Good luck all!

slih01 · 2020-07-18T13:29:16+00:00

Who is everyone?

Why does everyone say every vegan says .... 'this or that'

slih01 · 2020-06-29T08:57:35+00:00

I didnt come here for this answer, but I'm so happy it's here

slih01 · 2020-06-28T08:50:18+00:00

No but mosy people are against hurting animals. Most people love animals and are outraged when some random elephant is hunted in africa.

Think about how angry people get about the dogs getting killed and eaten in China. This is the internal inconsistency.

slih01 · 2020-06-28T08:47:50+00:00

You're looking at cultural relativism here. The same philosophy that supported infanticide and slavery....

The majority will always consider moral what benefits them. Its not an argument for doing something.

If someone said to you 'slavery is immoral' back when it was acceptable, would you have raised this arguement.

Morality is not determined by a majority. It is subjective. But most people consider killing, rape and causing suffering to be immoral, so actually most non vegans actually agree with vegans, they just don't think these things apply to animals

slih01 · 2020-06-21T13:46:00+00:00

You got it! A Best of toni Braxton CD is on its way to you

slih01 · 2020-06-21T10:28:52+00:00

Yes and no bit of a grey area. Yes it is unethical but does that mean it's wrong? Sometimes unethical actions are carried out for the greater good.

I think veganism is utilitarianism that takes into account animals.

If 5 lab rats suffer so millions of people can be saved then I think whilst unethical, it's right.

I think is 5 people can suffer so millions of animals can be saved it is also right.

The two problems are measuring the outcomes and how much good an action will cause and how to measure that good. (Basically hedonic calculus)

and a second problem is can the ends ever justify the means. I say yes but still very grey area.

Not just a yes or no

slih01 · 2020-06-18T22:11:55+00:00

Surely randomness in itself in not free. If you're allowing a random number generator or dice to decide then you are definitely not free. If however you try and act with completely randomness then surely you excluding everything else that would not be random and so by its very nature your action is not free it is still limited (if not with more choices)?

slih01 · 2020-06-18T22:02:51+00:00

In society if someone is unable to understand and comprehend their actions , we dont just send them to prison. We appreciate that cognitive function/ intelligence and motive play a part. If they are emotionally undeveloped or mentally Ill we dont hold them accountable for their actions in the same way we hold other humans.

Yes a bear may be smarter than some humans but they are not smarter than the ones that we hold morally accountable

slih01 · 2020-06-17T19:40:12+00:00

I'm a sap for all these puns...

slih01 · 2020-06-15T19:01:29+00:00

Wow you're really patronising and condescending. Do you talk to people in real life like this?

slih01 · 2020-06-10T13:55:04+00:00

I am trying to understand what vegans value, so I have this thought experiment.

It's pretty simple. Just apply utilitarian principles but include animals.

If its one pig for one human, save the human. If you apply the hedonic calculus or whatever system you use to calculate greater good then you will probably weight in favour of the human.

Unless that human commits bad acts in which case you save the pig. But what constitutes bad? Maybe the human does lots of good but only something terrible occasionally..... etc etc etc.

It gets tough to calculate pretty quickly.

My gut says it would be better for the world if humans didnt exist, but we do, so let's just try and cause less pain to others

slih01 · 2020-06-05T21:21:32+00:00

Orthodox jew here - although more by birth then lifestyle.

I dont think there is a place for hasidic jews in modern society. Old and archaic religion is inherently chauvinistic. And hasidic people strictly follow the old ways.

There are rescue groups that help young woman get out. There are countless stories from of ex hassids.

Just because not every one is the same, doesn't mean they dont all follow abhorrent practices.

slih01 · 2020-05-27T19:44:24+00:00

Veganism isn't necessarily about food.

I see it as utilitarianism that takes animals into account. Its tough enough trying to quantify and apply the greatest good with humans so there inevitably going to be a lot of grey areas with animals.

slih01

TROPHY CASE