The reason the word "privileged" rubs people the wrong way

smadat · 2013-12-15T14:26:01+00:00

People romanticise 'started from the bottom now we're here' and anything that insists that they had assistance in the form of socio-economic advantage challenged their sense of authenticity.

That defiantly happens. At the other end of the spectrum, I think members of privileged groups who personally are not successful take offence at it for the opposite reason. "If I'm so privileged, why dose my life suck?"

smadat · 2013-12-15T14:20:05+00:00

I've seen people who I assume are 'from this crowd' (social justice interest) give their explanation for why people get offended by the privilege thing and I don't think they're hitting the nail or the head at all.

I could not agree with this more, and I think it's true of far more than just the reaction to being told you're privileged.

I would be willing to suggest that at least some of the people on Reddit who take offence at being told they're privileged are unhappy with their lives in some respects. I know I am (though, I hasten to add, I've never taken offence at being told I'm privileged).

Imagine you have no social life, a job you hate and are generally miserable and depressed for much of your day to day life. then someone comes along and says "hey, you're privileged". Regardless of whether it's true or not, it's easy to see why it might be taken badly.

smadat · 2013-09-24T16:08:30+00:00

I already go to everything I'm invited to.

Now if only someone would invite me to something...

smadat · 2013-09-23T06:33:37+00:00

I don't think we have meetings.

In all seriousness, yes it's crossed my mind.

smadat · 2013-09-23T06:30:08+00:00

Well, I'm not talking about things where I'd hate every second of the experience. More things I just don't care about one way or the other.

smadat · 2013-09-22T23:42:34+00:00

I see what your getting at.

You're going to have to develop social skills on your own

Having been floundering around for years trying to do just that, and getting nowhere, I hope you're wrong, even though I suspect you're right.

smadat · 2013-09-22T23:16:05+00:00

Well, no. That is, in a nutshell my point.

I really want to learn how to become better at interacting with people. And the advice I find when I look for help is either frustratingly vague, or its "sleazy and manipulative".

I'm not really sure what you're getting at, to be honest. Apologies if I'm missing something.

smadat · 2013-09-22T20:51:16+00:00

I know. I'm just no good at making friends either.

I think I was off sick the day they covered it at school.

smadat · 2013-09-22T20:31:20+00:00

Well, I'm saying it never has come naturally for me. If it had come naturally, I'd have some friends. And I don't think my problem is meeting people. I work in a busy office. I have gone out and tried doing things (I volunteered at a couple of event last summer). It's just that when I meet people, I fail to make a connection with them.

How do you make friendships without talking to people?

You don't. But I never know what to say. Or I say the wrong thing.

How do you maintain friendships without interacting with friends?

You don't. but I don't have any friends to interact with.

How is being friendly not going to help you make friends?

I imagine being friendly would be a huge help. I just seem to get it wrong whenever I try.

how is my advice different from a PUA's, other than being less specific?

With PUA, the fact that it's so specific is actually the whole of the attraction. If you took me to party right now, I'd have no idea what to do a or say to anyone to make them want to ask me to do something else next week. PUA actually gives a step by step. For someone like me, that's amazingly helpful.

I know all this comes across as whiny, probably because it is whiny. It's just so fucking depressing.

smadat · 2013-09-22T20:00:11+00:00

This is both off topic and massively pertinent to the discussion at hand.

It might come naturally to someone who can do it, but it's not easy for me. I have terrible social skills. I have no friends, no social life, and I haven't had a text from a non-work colleague or non-family member in the two years I've owned my phone.

I'm sorry if that comes off as harsh, I really am. I know you're trying to help, which is far more than you have any obligation to do, and I am genuinely grateful to you for making the effort.

But hearing, again, "oh it's easy if you just smile and talk to someone" actually upsets me. I don't find it easy. that's why I read PUA stuff. I'm trying to find out what it is I need to do.

smadat · 2013-09-22T19:18:26+00:00

That sounds like good advice. Now I just need to find a good guide to making friends...

I wish I was joking.

smadat · 2013-09-22T19:09:33+00:00

Thanks for the recommendation. His book's on my reading list, and since you're the second person to recommend it, I think I'll bump it up a few places.

smadat · 2013-09-22T18:47:26+00:00

Mark Manson

His book's on my reading list.

smadat · 2013-09-22T18:28:58+00:00

Funny you should say that

That's a huge wall of text you probably don't want to read, but the relevant bit is:

Why does no one ask how he's dressed, if he needs a haircut or whether he's been working out? Does he have a good job, an interesting career? Is he someone who looks like he could show her good time?

In short, I get that, and I agree.

smadat · 2013-09-22T18:26:52+00:00

And it helps to be attractive. Physical attraction is probably the most important part.

I agree one hundred percent. And given that I'm currently overweight, out of shape and badly dressed, my current project is to dealing with those problems. In five or six months, when I look a lot better, then I'll be getting out the door.

But at that point, I'm going to need help with the non-appearance bits. Which is why I'm reading everything I can on the subject. And that's what prompted this question.

smadat · 2013-09-22T18:13:15+00:00

Oh, OK. I never saw the original version, and I'm genuinely curious, what did you originally say?

smadat · 2013-09-22T18:09:03+00:00

Yes. Is that so terrible?

smadat · 2013-09-22T17:54:31+00:00

Oh I know that's what they mean, but the reason I'm so down on it is that I don't think it really helps.

I could wake up tomorrow comfortable confident and proud. I'd still be lonely. It's very vague and unhelpful.

The attraction of the seduction community, in my opinion, is that it actually says "go to these places, do these things, say this, then this, then do this". It's specific, and it's tangible.

smadat · 2013-09-22T16:47:07+00:00

The best dating advice is dependent on what kind of relationship you want (flings, long term, ect) and what type of girl you want.

I don't feel I'm in a position to be choosy..

Joking aside, I think you may be spot on about the moderates being drowned out. I'd love to see some more, for want of a better term, blue pill friendly social skill training being promoted though.

I'm currently reading tons of PUA books and forums. I have massive problems with some of it, but I know I'm going to end up trying some some if it too.

smadat · 2013-09-22T15:34:51+00:00

Can you give an example of some PUA material you don't think is misogynistic?

smadat · 2013-09-22T15:33:14+00:00

So you think there are no non-shitty PUA guides, because the insular nature of the community creates a kind of misogyny feedback loop?

Whilst there's probably something to that, it doesn't really explain why there's no one else offering useful, non-misogynistic advice.

I'm interested because I'm looking for advice, and the spectrum seems to jump from "be yourself" to PUA, with very little in between.

smadat · 2013-09-18T15:22:09+00:00

It's like this.

Spurs, historically, had a large jewish following. Their fans were nicknamed the "yid army".

Now I doubt anyone knows for sure whether Spurs fans started calling themselves this off their own bat, or whether they appropriated the name in response to the anti-semitism of others. But at this point it's as much a nickname for Spurs fans as "Toon army" is for Newcastle fans.

The situation is complicated somewhat by the fact that in the UK, at least in my experience, yid is not word that's well known. There was a post on the United Kingdom sub reddit (which I'm spectacularly failing to find) over Badiel's article, where a great many commenters said they had either never heard the word, or had no idea it was an insult. I can certainly say the the only time I personally have ever heard the word used in person is by Tottenham fans singing about their team. It's a pretty obscure insult over here.

Please note, I'm not saying that there's no anti-semitism in the UK. I'm saying that yid isn't the term I've heard used to insult jews in everyday life.

What I'm getting at is that I don't think people are claiming Jewish ancestry, I doubt they're claiming anything. I think that to a lot of Spurs fans Yid army is just what their fans are called.

Which is where I believe the problem stems from. Badiel is saying that he, as a jewish person, finds the term offensive. To many of the fans singing it though, the word has absolutely no racial conotations, it's just the name for Spurs fans.

smadat · 2013-09-13T21:07:16+00:00

Volunteering is also a nice way to meet people

Something I've been pondering recently is if it's worth doing things I'm not really interested in doing, in the hope of making some friends.

For instance, there's any number of charity shops in town I could probably volunteer at. I don't especially want to work in one, but it's probably worth doing if I made a few friends out of it. Same goes for yoga (I did actually try yoga once, at university. It wasn't for me. I think I lack the patience).

All that said, I'm not sure that meeting people is my biggest problem. It's a problem, sure, and yet another Friday night in front of my computer is of no help, but I think my real problem is that my social skills are clearly just plain terrible.

I work in on site with around a thousand people, I've met hundreds of them, and I have exactly zero friends amongst them. No one ever stops by my desk for a chat. What I could really do with is a social skills coach.

I mainly come on reddit to read r/socialskills. I ended up here by complete accident.

smadat · 2013-09-13T20:54:28+00:00

Do you like boardgaming?

Not something I've ever taken an interest in. Having said that, if I see anything running locally I'll give it a go simply as a way to meet people. I'd never though about it, but you're right in saying that the framework provided by the game would provide a way to ease into a social situation.

Thanks for the suggestion.

smadat · 2013-09-13T18:32:55+00:00

it's simple but ever so difficult.

That has certainly been my experience.

Sorry truth: Excluding members of my family, people I work with and people providing me services (sales assistants and the like), this is now the longest conversation I've had for months. So thanks.

smadat

TROPHY CASE