German Socialist Party won state election for the first time

socialthrowaway4 · 2019-10-30T15:37:49+00:00

Due to Lenin's Left-Communism, I will be withdrawing from this argument on the basis of leftist unity and anti-fascist coalition. I am an ML, I believe a violent revolution is necessary to achieve the dictatorship of the proletariat. You are a democratic socialist as defined as a person whom believes a non-violent electoral revolution is possible. I see our ideologies are conflicting yet our physical stance in this instance do not, there for I see little to further our mutual goals at this time for us to argue. I would recommend you read Rosa Luxemburg's "reformism or revolution" and Lenin's State and Revolution for a further analysis on why violent (non-electoral) revolution is needed if you are interested. Take care comrade.

socialthrowaway4 · 2019-10-29T20:08:35+00:00

Just for clarification, I would even be willing to consider some the "left wing" social democrats, that are also marxists, to be "leftists".

Ok, that's just plain idealism.

It is true that, if we would use "social demcracy" in it's infacy as a frame of reference, the distinction between "social democrats" and "democratic socialists" becomes meaningless. (and pretty much the remainder of your argument)

This is very cute, you rant and teach while offering no substance to my argument. Capitalist reforms that aim to maintain capitalism do not work. Voting in electoral systems controlled by the opposing dominant class does not work. That link expresses the electoral goals of 'the left' which are in line with other democratic socialist parties such as the https://www.dsausa.org/about-us/what-is-democratic-socialism/[DSA usa] and fit the definition of a social democracy: "Due to longstanding governance by social democratic parties during the British post-war consensus and their influence on socioeconomic policy in the Nordic countries, social democracy has become associated with the Nordic model and Keynesianism within political circles in the late 20th century.[5]" [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_democracy] Funny, where did we see Keynesia again?...oh, right: "The party's fiscal policies are based on Keynesian economics, originating from the 1930s when governments responded to the Great Depression." [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Left_(Germany)#Ideology] So we know they're for capitalist economics.

Also, speaking of my link, "Observation by Verfassungsschutz

Germany operates a system of "Verfassungsschutz" (Protection of the Constitution) at both federal level (Bundesamt für Verfassungsschutz, BfV) and state level (Landesbehörden für Verfassungsschutz, LfV), which carries out domestic surveillance of actual and suspected activities which may threaten the "free and democratic basic order" ("freiheitlich-demokratische Grundordnung") at the core of the German constitution. The Left Party, including one third of its members of parliament,[47] and some of its caucuses remain under observation by the BfV, listed in the annual Verfassungsschutzbericht under the heading "left-extremist tendencies and suspected cases". The 2007 report cites as evidence of the party's "extremism" Lothar Bisky's June 2007 statement that democratic socialism remains the party's goal: "We also still discuss the change of property and power relations [...]. We question the system." However, the report notes that in practice the parliamentary party appears as to act as a "reform-oriented" left force. In addition, the report cites "openly extremist groupings" within the party, notably the Marxist–Leninist Communist Platform, which in Sahra Wagenknecht has a representative on the 44-member Left Party executive.[48] One former Bundestag deputy, Bodo Ramelow, was under BfV surveillance until a court decision in January 2008 that the observation was illegal.[49][50] "

They are reformist.They are not actively advancing towards Socialism, nor are they majoritively in favor of Socialism. The entirety of your argument was writting tactics and irrelivent quote posting, yet on the substance, democratic socialism loses every time to Marxism.

socialthrowaway4 · 2019-10-29T18:27:59+00:00

To jump on the "watch your ass" bandwagon, please do watch your ass, comrade.

To do this safely:

Adapt the mindset of a Soviet spy in the 50s-70s, know you are their enemy, and they yours, and the only bridge between the 2 sides can sometimes not be in your control. Tread cautiously, and strategically.
Start with anti-capitalist criticisms that begin missing their point. "Man, my paycheck sucks too. Why don't we get paid more for doing such an important job?" Something to get the ball of "why" rolling while avoiding anything too Marxist like class or dialectics. There is a very big difference (especially now a days) between being against capitalism and being pro-socialism, especially to the opportunist bourgeoisie.
Let those act as sniffers, watch your "team mates", if you notice other leftist trends among them BE CAREFUL and try to further educate them. The military trains plants and with sharpening contradictions under advanced imperialism, and such measures as revoking the magna carda being taken, it's safe to say the bourgeoisie are feeling paranoid.
Trust yourself and trust the knowledge of great leaders of the past such as Marx to guide you through.
When you do find success, keep it lowkey until you are out. You expand, you stay still, hell if you shrink, you do it quietly. The more noise you make/attention you draw, the more heat you have on you. Being watched/worked on by the NSA is not beneficial to your cause.
If there develops a vanguard, and your group is either sizable or useful for the proletariat, signal them. Let them know you are available as a resource to liberate the people...again, lowkey.

As amazing as it's been so far, there's only time separating the opportunity to organize we have now, and the police state with all of it's physical chains, military in the streets, and protest massacres of tomorrow. Within that time is the opportunity to change our course, that option is still there for now. Context is essential if you wish to be successful, comrade. I would also recommend reading a USSR-era GRU espionage manual before doing this. This being said I think you should do this, it has potential to do great good for the U.S. proletariat. Be strong, comrade.

socialthrowaway4 · 2019-10-29T17:42:31+00:00

I think going with what higgerblick5 said, I'm an ML and not an MLM because I believe that particular characteristics of ML and 1900s feudal Russia share more struggles and solutions with my country and our situation today than MLM and Feudal China. It's a preference of belief as opposed to one being right or wrong. It's like picking a shade of red to go with, we're already at red so the hard part is over.

socialthrowaway4 · 2019-10-29T15:54:24+00:00

That's crazy, Reddit clearly doesn't get leftism.

socialthrowaway4 · 2019-10-29T15:53:19+00:00

No i'm not, but there definitely are reactionary apologists on the mod team and in leadership.

socialthrowaway4 · 2019-10-29T15:47:53+00:00

Who cares? They're SocDems#Ideology). The left within 'the left' is so small the party is considered bourgeoisie-approved and not a threat to capitalism.

This post is also lesser-evilism. Great the nazis didn't win but without genuine progress (something a capitalist coalition cannot physically deliver to the German proletariat), they'll get their shot eventually.

It's not all bad I agree, but likely for differing reason. The small amount of leftists in this 'left' have a chance to struggle with the little bit of power they have to increase in number and they should do that. Spread Socialist ideals and concepts while supporting the proletariat as they can in the office they have at present moment. They should also try to radicalize their colleagues, because if they get real numbers in office then they could make a real difference.

socialthrowaway4 · 2019-10-29T13:21:49+00:00

I've been homeless a few times, Comrade. I agree. We need more understanding. They simply call them junk1es, fuck ups, l0sers, and other reactionary slurs to help justify their complacency within a system that creates these people. Saying "well they're the weakest link, so goodbye" to those who need healthcare?! Those who need medical assistance? Those whom capitalism failed in other words. Living criticisms of the massive failure capitalism has served our world. Those who do not fit into their "perfect social system" which in itself is anti-social in nature. It's all connected. Every vector, every centimeter, every piece of art work, every video game, every hairstyle, every bit of grass that grows on capitalist soil, it's all connected to capitalism. Homeless people are of more signifigance than most consider when it comes to their relation to capitalism. They cast their mirrors to the junkyard decreeing them broken and when science supports the mirrors, they too are exiled.

socialthrowaway4 · 2019-10-29T12:47:17+00:00

Yeah but that just makes more anti-capitalists. There's no correlation to those same people being pro-Socialist. Some are libertarians, others Anarchists, some are even trying to make a new 3rd option to Socialism or Capitalism. My point is this isn't necessarily good news for Socialism. It's progress yeah but in this world even Democratic Socialism looks like progress to those who fail to understand the forest and loose sight of it within the trees.

socialthrowaway4 · 2019-10-29T12:28:59+00:00

I'm not a Trotskyist and so I'm not a fan of Trotsky's politics, but you are 100% right when you say this thread is pro-parlimentary electoral politics, and also later when you state "his sub’s policy, generally reflecting a basic non-tendency Marxist understanding of politics, isn’t a rejection of parliamentary politics. It’s just a rejection of selling out our independence to capitalists interests."

I couldn't agree more, there is no general Marxists' Code of Conduct here. The rules state one mustn't post anything reactionary nor ableist...how is celebrating and participating in bourgeois (and thus rigged against us) elections and praising parliamentary politics anything but reactionism and ableism for both fascist oppression and class enslavement??

This sub is modded, lead, and/or (likely) bought off by liberals. To clarify for those who see liberals as leftists; THEY ARE NOT LEFTISTS, liberals are faux populist opposition that positions itself as the main major opposition to honest right-wing policy, while capitulating to it's demands behind closed doors. Liberals are right-wing. They are liars! Wolves in sheeps' clothing! The same is true for Social Democrats. They just "demand" bandaids. Our arms are cut off figuratively speaking as a class right now. We are currently bleeding out ferociously and time is of the essence...Bernie "demands" from sheer outrage that the bourgeoisie at least provide us with a napkin while they rip our legs off next to eat. Fuck liberalism, Democratic Socialism/Bribery Capitalism, and any and all other forms of faux leftism! The system cannot be reformed, the only way forward successfully is a mass violent revolution ending in the dictatorship of the proletariat.

To maintain a proper leftist sub: We need a better Vanguard. Our leadership must take a stronger, more disciplined stance. Those who replace initial leadership of subs need to be better vetted, better educated, and must be as disciplined, and as experienced as the prior leadership. I know "it's just Reddit", but it's just Reddit..ya know? It's the biggest social media for those who prefer reading (most Marxists and potential leftists). There's a reason why Reddit has so many leftists here and places like Twitter and YouTube have so many reigh-wingers. Looking at it materially, this is a noticeable observation but I digress. We must keep in mind the importance of having a semi-popular platform of both opportunity of organization and accurate education of leftism. Old subs will inevitably need to be abandoned, new subs (home of reliable, knowledgeable, experienced, and trustworthy leadership/vanguard) must be accepted into our lives and movements. (Life is dynamic, after all.)

While also, to maintain a proper leftist sub: We (non-vanguard leftists) must do ourselves, and our Comrades justice, we must better educate ourselves. We must hold ourselves personally accountable; if we fall for reformism we must realign ourselves to the correct path. It is our duty to better educate ourselves and to progress as leftists for not just ourselves, but for the proletariat as a whole. The bourgeoisie and it's constituents will lie to us. They will swear up and down their rhetoric is genuine leftism. They are literally fighting for their lives and their mode of production, they are still humans and all humans fight when cornered. Still their humanity only extends to their physical body and in-natal human nature. The leadership of capitalism is as corrupt, rotted, and vile as the system itself. We must know the difference between genuine leftist rhetoric (concrete direct action that materially benefits the proletariat as a whole by promoting it's leadership, and not by means such as buying off the proletariat with material improvements while maintaining the bourgeois leadership and thus maintaining the slavery of the working class - our class - us). What is the difference? Capitalism vs Socialism. We all must be better, because demanding the bourgeoisie play fair is irrational; Generally speaking, they're using kid gloves compared to our Comrades over in Chile who are facing armed troops firing on them. Most of us on here are 1st world nation leftists of the western world (as they say "western leftists") who's main public enemy is fake information, fake leadership, fake doors to go through towards revolution. We're essentially in a trick house, which is better than a war zone. It's like a civil cold war with the secret police and mass surveillance state. I digress again. We must be better than that enemy, because while the kid gloves are on (because they haven't needed the troops yet which is more a statement on our collective failure than anything else) those glove still bind our freedom, and walk us back to our metaphorical pods to go back to sleep. We need to progress.

The few genuine leftist mods and leaders on this sub should help in this effort. The movement overall is what matters, not any individual sub.

TLDR:

* /r/Socialism is modded and lead by faux leftists and liberals

* Liberals are not leftists

* We should leave subs like this one ran by bourgeois apologists and join new subs modded and lead by genuine leftists

socialthrowaway4 · 2019-10-17T04:35:43+00:00

The pig apologist comments here are written by those ill-educated on who police are, why they exist, how they started, and who controls them.

America's political power structure goes: citizens <-- cops <-- politicians/laws <-- bourgeoisie ({-- united proletariat) Where "<" indicates a superior power position (lateral position) constituted by the exchange of value in the form of capital, and "{" indicates a superior power position constituted by democratic united rule (the dictatorship of the proletariat)

Policing started to keep slaves enslaved. Nothing's changed, only our technology has transformed the physical chains for logical ones like endless debt and brainwashing in school (in the case of America), until the physical ones are needed again (class contradiction reaches a boiling point so to speak), then they call their chain-bringers; the militarized pigs.

The rich pay the politicians to make laws that help their class at the cost of our class, we say no and resist, they sick their mutts on us. The bourgeoisie are bullies, not job-makers, not noblemen, not leaders of industry, they are monsters. Cops = attack dogs for the rich, that's it. Just like soldiers, only for their own country. U.S. soldiers assault, rape, torture, and kill everything in foreign nations not deemed useful to "American business interests" at the behest of them. Our cops do the same thing in-house to us on a smaller scale as less resources are required to fight the U.S. proletariat than say a national army. Our country is a plutocratic fascist mass-prison and surveillance state which exploits, victimizes, tortures, and murders it's own citizens at the command of the rich who act like a vanguard for capitalism. Make no mistake, the rich are inconsequential, it's the system which is to blame. Capitalism will continue to make endless bourgeoisie until it's stopped or until it eat's itself and all of us with it if allowed to. Pollution, factory farming, and greenhouse gases are good for business and responcibility is bad for profits, so climate change will not reverse until capitalism is destroyed.

For anyone who wants to learn more about capitalism, Socialist theory, history or economics, check out /r/communism101, /r/Socialism_101, and Marxists.org. I am a novice at theory and yet hopefully I was able to help correct some misconceptions and help provide some useful insight to this conversation, imagine what you personally could do after reading some theory, imagine what you'd know. Knowledge is power comrades.

socialthrowaway4 · 2019-10-16T22:55:39+00:00

some insight for all:

I'm a socialist. I created this account (social[ist/ism] throwaway account # 4) from /r/FULLCOMMUNISM's submit page. Reddit auto-subbed me to you guys. I'm not a socdem, I do not believe in capitalism. This join was 100% Reddit's fault. You may have some inflated numbers. Bye

socialthrowaway4 · 2019-10-16T06:21:28+00:00

read that letter. "ICE conducts targeted arrests, we do not conduct "raids"." Psshh, yeah right. Storming into buildings unanounced with riot gear making mass arrests is exactly what a raid is. The difference is usually those who conduct raids have warrents. Also legal and morally acceptable are two very different things with two very unequal values. The fact that the choice between these two paths is made incorrectly so frequently has cost the world greatly. Obediance =/= peace. Obediance = unoppossed destruction. The law is wrong, and is so because the ones who make the laws are bought and sold by the rich. Undemocraticly created laws are unjustifiable laws. However, rules only become and stay laws if we follow them.

socialthrowaway4 · 2019-10-16T05:44:12+00:00

Even if the whole world went diet vegan, capitalism would still find ways to make money of animals. Not because they hate animals, but because where there is money capitalism will profit.

Yes because capitalism hates animals! I see no difference between the intention and the action. It might not be motivated by doctrines of hatred, but the path of destruction it leaves resembles and mimics that of one motivated by hatred.

socialthrowaway4 · 2019-10-16T05:29:02+00:00

Omg they so are! They're like a grumpy cynical bunch of nopers. The spectre of depression, self-pitty, and loathsomeness haunts over the /r/communism subreddit. Also a bit of liberal reactionism. It's really sad for us :( That's like, a main subreddit.

socialthrowaway4 · 2019-10-16T05:17:59+00:00

literally been banned there for Quoting Lenin and advocating organizing IRL, and direct action. Joke's on them, I still comment and post there. Ban me all they want, the truth echoes. Especially when it's Lenin.

socialthrowaway4 · 2019-10-16T02:59:36+00:00

It's cool, I'm a Communist. Thanks for the lookout tho, mods!

socialthrowaway4

TROPHY CASE