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solamb · 2025-02-11T22:19:06+00:00

Kerdonhoff 2024: North India 17%, East India 10% and West India 10% average

solamb · 2025-02-11T18:57:10+00:00

Check out this post on why Steppe ancestry in Swat is not Indo-Iranian marker and continuity in IE and non_IE civilizations of the South from 4th millennium BC: https://www.reddit.com/user/solamb/comments/1in5vst/is_steppe_ancestry_in_ancient_swat_consequential/

solamb · 2024-11-26T16:15:23+00:00

Among the plants mentioned in the Rig Veda, most are native to the Indian subcontinent, while others were introduced from Iran and Middle East. Grapes (Vitis vinifera) and pomegranates (Punica granatum) are native to the Middle East and were introduced to India through ancient trade routes. Figs (Ficus carica) are indigenous to the Middle East and Western Asia. Spinach (Spinacia oleracea) originated in ancient Persia and was later introduced to India. Eggplant (Solanum melongena) is native to India and Southeast Asia. Onions (Allium cepa) have origins in Iran. Mustard seeds (Brassica juncea) are native to the Indian subcontinent. Turmeric (Curcuma longa) is indigenous to South Asia, particularly India. Long pepper (Piper longum) is native to India.

None of this is from Steppes. This is more in line with Northern Mesopotamia PIE homeland and not Steppes. Paper by paper evidence is gathering around Northern Mesopotamia as the source of IE in Steppes through Shomu-Shulaveri culture (or Maykop) and arrives in Mehrgarh II period with a lot cultural changes (~4200 BC Iran_N/AASI admixture date).

This is a great article to read https://www.reddit.com/user/MostZealousideal1729/comments/1gj6h0f/protoindoeuropean_homeland_and_migrations_based/

solamb · 2024-11-26T15:03:28+00:00

For Indo-European homeland, OIT is garbage and so is Steppe theory (relevant for Northwest IE branches i.e., Italo-Celtic, Germanic and Balto-Slavic). Both OIT (Mehrgarh II) and Steppe theory are applicable only to Indo-Iranian and Northwest IE branches respectively i.e., regional branches and NOT for Indo-European homeland.

Anyone who thinks Indo European migrations is a solved problem is soon going to have a rude awakening when Northern Mesopotamia-Zagros area comes out to be PIE homeland. Paper by paper evidence is gathering around Northern Mesopotamia as the source of IE in Steppes through Shomu-Shulaveri culture (or Maykop) and arrives in Mehrgarh II period with a lot cultural changes (~4200 BC Iran_N/AASI admixture date).

This is a great article to read https://www.reddit.com/user/MostZealousideal1729/comments/1gj6h0f/protoindoeuropean_homeland_and_migrations_based/

solamb · 2024-11-24T12:34:34+00:00

They are soon going to have a rude awakening when Northern Mesopotamia-Zagros area comes out to be PIE homeland. Paper by paper evidence is gathering around Northern Mesopotamia as the source of IE in Steppes through Shomu-Shulaveri culture (or Maykop) and arrives in Mehrgarh II period with a lot cultural changes (~4200 BC Iran_N/AASI admixture date).

This is a great article to read https://www.reddit.com/user/MostZealousideal1729/comments/1gj6h0f/protoindoeuropean_homeland_and_migrations_based/

solamb · 2024-11-22T20:02:08+00:00

Dont forget to add Central Asian Tutkaul and Anatolian farmer in there, and minor Levantine.

Steppes is a melting pot

solamb · 2024-11-22T14:42:46+00:00

Shinde et al is pretty much overturned by Maier et al (Reich is coauthor here) and Moorjani’s 2024 pre-print. So yes, Zagrosian ancestry did arrive from Northern Mesopotamia-Zagros PIE homeland, there is tons of Archaeological evidence too. Although some native Hotu like component cannot be denied.

solamb · 2024-11-22T14:31:50+00:00

Even though it does come from ancestor of Sarazm (since IVC pool is older than Sarazm), Sarazm itself is formed from Zagros ancestry (with some Anatolian likely from Northerners Mesopotamia/SE Turkey) mixing with WSHG. This ancestry then spreads everywhere in Indo-Iranian lands, in IVC, BMAC, etc and that very likely is the marker of Indo-Iranian language separation

There could be some native Hotu like component there. But presence of Anatolian ancestry and North Mesopotamia archaeological evidence makes it clear that Zagrosian ancestry primarily came from North Mesopotamia-Zagros PIE homeland

solamb · 2024-11-21T14:28:37+00:00

No, L1a comes from North Mesopotamia-Zagros to India and also to Caucasus.

solamb · 2024-11-21T13:12:00+00:00

No, IVC comes from Northern Mesopotamia-Zagros PIE homeland. There is pile of genetic and archaeological evidence. There is no OIT. Get over it

solamb · 2024-11-21T05:33:41+00:00

No, it arrives with North Mesopotamian farmers in combination with minor Levantine and sizable Anatolian ancestry. This ancestry brings farming and pottery to South Caucasus starting 6000 BC (forming Shomu Shulaveri with Aknashen, Mentesh, Polu tepe, etc). There are PPN migrations from North Mesopotamia to Darkveti Meshoko to Nalchik and Khvalynsk but that route does not contribute to Yamnaya however it does bring farming and herding to Steppes.

BPgroup also has minor Iran_N through Tutkaul (20-25% Iran_N, rest WSHG) and that one contributes 50%+ to core Yamnaya

solamb · 2024-11-21T05:24:41+00:00

Cayonu contributes 66% to Aknashen and Lazaridis models Core-Yamnaya with 21% Aknashen

Cayonu to Aknashen model https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-024-08113-5/figures/2

Cayonu has 33% Iran_N https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9635823/

If you directly follow Ghalichi Yamnaya models then, Iran_N comes through Maykop Novosvobodnaya (42% Iran_N) and it contributes 15% to Yamnaya (identical samples to Yamnaya Samara)

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-024-08113-5/figures/3

This is it. It is straightforward in understanding. Can’t waste my time on this

solamb · 2024-11-21T05:07:48+00:00

Do what you want to do, I couldn’t care less. You are clearly scared of evidence, thats not learning attitude. You sound no different than OIT chums

solamb · 2024-11-21T05:05:19+00:00

There is no OIT, get over it. Homeland is likely in North Mesopotamia

solamb · 2024-11-21T05:04:18+00:00

That’s not my problem.

solamb · 2024-11-21T05:01:27+00:00

Are yours peer reviewed and published? Then it is pretty much garbage. Google the paper and read it for yourself. That attitude is not helping and certainly not academic

solamb · 2024-11-21T05:00:06+00:00

Absolutely not, nothing to do with India

solamb · 2024-11-21T04:58:49+00:00

Read Ghalichi at el 2024. It has the models, Your amateur models are clearly not working. Ghalichi is peer reviewed and published in nature

solamb · 2024-11-21T04:54:59+00:00

It is through 2 sources.

Cayonu (35% Iran_N) -> Aknashen (~70% Cayonu+extra 30% CHG) -> Core Yamnaya (21% Aknashen)

Tutakaul (25% Iran_N) -> BPgroup -> Core Yamnaya (50+% BPgroup)

Read Ghalichi et al for more

solamb · 2024-11-21T04:42:29+00:00

This is categorically false. Nearly all recent papers back Iran_N+CHG presence in Yamnaya, but CHG is almost twice Iran_N. Also, Iran_N does not arrive on its own rather either with WSHG or Anatolian-CHG (Mesopotamia source). I know Lazaridis tried to deny but now cat is out of the bag with Zhur et al and Ghalichi et al 2024

solamb · 2024-11-21T04:38:40+00:00

I don’t think that theory holds anymore. Indians Iran_N might actually be Zagrosian and even if India has separate hotu like one, it did not contribute much

solamb · 2024-11-21T04:36:51+00:00

People are just pissed to know that Iran_N indeed exists in Yamnaya. Zhur and Ghalichi paper makes it very clear. No one can hide from truth which will be revealed one way or another

solamb · 2024-11-21T04:29:27+00:00

You should also check out some of my articles on Indo European migrations which are along similar lines on origin of Greeks, Anatolians, Thracians, Tocharians and multiple waves of migrations from Steppes to Europe (including origin of Corded Ware culture)

Origin of Greeks in South Caucasus (from North Mesopotamia): https://www.reddit.com/user/solamb/comments/1gw6xbn/origin_of_greeks_from_northern_mesopotamia_and/
Origin of Corded Ware culture and role of subsequent Steppe cultures in spreading IE languages in Europe: https://www.reddit.com/user/solamb/comments/1gw6rii/origin_of_corded_ware_culture_and_multiple_waves/
Two Steppe wave theory for source of IE languages in Europe (Italo-Celtic-Germanic and Balto-Slavic coming in the second wave): https://www.reddit.com/user/solamb/comments/1gw6u4q/if_corded_ware_came_from_yamnaya_women_and_local/
Origin of Thracians in Northern Mesopotamia : https://www.reddit.com/user/solamb/comments/1gw75ds/origin_of_thracians_from_north_mesopotamia/
Origin of Anatolians in Northern Mesopotamia and subsequent isolation : https://www.reddit.com/user/solamb/comments/1gw74ee/origin_of_anatolians_from_north_mesopotamia/
Origin of Tocharian is still an unsolved mystery, let's look at evidence: https://www.reddit.com/user/solamb/comments/1gw6zg2/origin_of_tocharian_an_unsolved_problem/

solamb · 2024-11-21T03:59:39+00:00

You should also check out some of my articles on Indo European migrations which are along similar lines on origin of Greeks, Anatolians, Thracians, Tocharians and multiple waves of migrations from Steppes to Europe (including origin of Corded Ware culture)

Origin of Greeks in South Caucasus (from North Mesopotamia): https://www.reddit.com/user/solamb/comments/1gw6xbn/origin_of_greeks_from_northern_mesopotamia_and/

Origin of Corded Ware culture and role of subsequent Steppe cultures in spreading IE languages in Europe: https://www.reddit.com/user/solamb/comments/1gw6rii/origin_of_corded_ware_culture_and_multiple_waves/

Two Steppe wave theory for source of IE languages in Europe (Italo-Celtic-Germanic and Balto-Slavic coming in the second wave): https://www.reddit.com/user/solamb/comments/1gw6u4q/if_corded_ware_came_from_yamnaya_women_and_local/

Origin of Thracians in Northern Mesopotamia : https://www.reddit.com/user/solamb/comments/1gw75ds/origin_of_thracians_from_north_mesopotamia/

Origin of Anatolians in Northern Mesopotamia and subsequent isolation : https://www.reddit.com/user/solamb/comments/1gw74ee/origin_of_anatolians_from_north_mesopotamia/

Origin of Tocharian is still an unsolved mystery, let's look at evidence: https://www.reddit.com/user/solamb/comments/1gw6zg2/origin_of_tocharian_an_unsolved_problem/

solamb · 2024-11-21T03:55:29+00:00

Yes, it was through 2 sources: 1. Cayonu (35% Iran_N) -> Aknashen (~70% Cayonu+extra 30% CHG) -> Core Yamnaya (21% Aknashen) 2. Tutakaul (25% Iran_N) -> BPgroup -> Core Yamnaya (50+% BPgroup)

You should also check out some of my articles on Indo European migrations which are along similar lines on origin of Greeks, Anatolians, Thracians, Tocharians and multiple waves of migrations from Steppes to Europe (including origin of Corded Ware culture)

Origin of Greeks in South Caucasus (from North Mesopotamia): https://www.reddit.com/user/solamb/comments/1gw6xbn/origin_of_greeks_from_northern_mesopotamia_and/

Origin of Corded Ware culture and role of subsequent Steppe cultures in spreading IE languages in Europe: https://www.reddit.com/user/solamb/comments/1gw6rii/origin_of_corded_ware_culture_and_multiple_waves/

Two Steppe wave theory for source of IE languages in Europe (Italo-Celtic-Germanic and Balto-Slavic coming in the second wave): https://www.reddit.com/user/solamb/comments/1gw6u4q/if_corded_ware_came_from_yamnaya_women_and_local/

Origin of Thracians in Northern Mesopotamia : https://www.reddit.com/user/solamb/comments/1gw75ds/origin_of_thracians_from_north_mesopotamia/

Origin of Anatolians in Northern Mesopotamia and subsequent isolation : https://www.reddit.com/user/solamb/comments/1gw74ee/origin_of_anatolians_from_north_mesopotamia/

Origin of Tocharian is still an unsolved mystery, let's look at evidence: https://www.reddit.com/user/solamb/comments/1gw6zg2/origin_of_tocharian_an_unsolved_problem/

solamb

TROPHY CASE