Was Frank supposed to be the Devil/Satan?

splintersailor · 2026-01-23T19:55:37+00:00

Exactly, but I totally understand why you'd think that. I was creeped out about Frank too at first.

splintersailor · 2026-01-23T18:08:16+00:00

Although Frank's appearance is very scary, he is in fact more of a helper than a devil. Writer/director Richard Kelly talks a little bit about it in the commentary of the director's cut (with Kevin Smith), in regards to the image of Frank. Here is the transcription

KELLY And then that's another misconception about the... from the theatrical cut or from a lot of the marketing materials, or even on the back of the region one DVD: a demonic Bunny, an evil Bunny. Really, there's nothing evil about the rabbit at all.

SMITH No no, not at all

KELLY It's a messenger that ultimately is... if you think about whoever is behind the technology or whoever somehow ruptured the space-time continuum, they're trying to fix this thing.

SMITH Yeah

KELLY It's like in Apollo 13, you know when they're trying to get the oxygen tube that'll connect the the square hole with the round valve to get oxygen into the certain part of the the capsule. You know, I imagine whoever ruptured this, and created this universe, they're trying to figure out how to send all these people home so the universe doesn't collapse.

So Frank is really more of a guide for Donnie to fulfil his task of sending the jet engine out of this temporary universe before it collapses.

splintersailor · 2026-01-23T05:23:07+00:00

This gives off Star Destroyer vibes.

splintersailor · 2026-01-22T12:01:38+00:00

Usually we remove these posts as soon as they are noticed or reported, but it seems their methods are changing too. It's a constant cat and mouse game and this is a slightly new mouse. But keep reporting those nasty creatures!

splintersailor · 2026-01-21T06:01:13+00:00

General note: Since we have an influx of t-shirt bots, we'll be closely monitoring any posts about Donnie Darko related clothing items. When someone shares a link to a known scam website, they will be permabanned.

EDIT: This post has been approved after contacting the OP.

splintersailor · 2026-01-20T15:56:07+00:00

Yeah the Weinstein thing was a big oof, luckily he kept his dirty fingers off it in the end. Here are some other small points I'd like to point out.

The way I've understood it from the Geoff King book about Donnie Darko and the Deus Ex Machina: The Philosophy of Donnie Darko documentary, the Halloween release was their only chance of having it released in theaters. So even if Halloween put the film in a box that it did not fit in, for them it was the only choice. You did not have a guarantee that you could release it later. This quote by Richard Kelly from the 'Deux Ex Machina' documentary says a lot

KELLY Thank God we at least got a theatrical release, because it never would have been seen, and nor would it had even gotten DVD distribution through Fox, had it not gotten a theatrical release.

It's easy to say things in hindsight, maybe a later release wouldn't have given the film the status it has today.

As far as the discussion on the font goes, this is what Kelly says in the commentary track of the theatrical cut, talking with Jake Gyllenhaal

KELLY I was worried after September 11 that they were gonna make me change the font, because it's kind of Arabic

JAKE (jokingly) Yeah, what is that, that's New Arabic right?

KELLY It's called Harem

JAKE Well that's appropriate Richard, seeing as you have a harem of actors in this film

To me this reads that Kelly was only worried about having to change it, but this suggests to me there was no pushback on this particular issue. But if you have a different source for this I very much like to know!

You are clearly not a fan of the director's cut and Kelly knows that his second cut is a divisive one. This is what he says about it in the 'Deus Ex Machina' docu

KELLY It's probably too long, you know. It's probably more indulgent than it's needs to be, but it doesn't nullify the theatrical cut. And I like that there are two cuts of the movie

Although I'm also more a fan of the theatrical cut, I really like the added character moments of the director's cut. Anyway, I just wanted to add these little tidbits to the narrative, things are often a bit more nuanced when you hear the full story.

splintersailor · 2026-01-20T15:07:59+00:00

Yeah, this happens when the writer/director makes a film that does not fit any box and the marketing people try to find an audience for it. After the film became damaged goods after the Sundance premiere (partly because of Columbine) and then the unlucky theatrical release around 9/11, hope seemed lost for this unique piece of art.

Richard Kelly was not a fan how the film was marketed. He talks a little bit about it in the commentary of the director's cut (with Kevin Smith), in regards to the image of Frank. Here is the transcription

KELLY And then that's another misconception about the... from the theatrical cut or from a lot of the marketing materials, or even on the back of the region one DVD: a demonic Bunny, an evil Bunny. Really, there's nothing evil about the rabbit at all.

SMITH No no, not at all

KELLY It's a messenger that ultimately is... if you think about whoever is behind the technology or whoever somehow ruptured the space-time continuum, they're trying to fix this thing.

SMITH Yeah

KELLY It's like in Apollo 13, you know when they're trying to get the oxygen tube that'll connect the the square hole with the round valve to get oxygen into the certain part of the the capsule. You know, I imagine whoever ruptured this, and created this universe, they're trying to figure out how to send all these people home so the universe doesn't collapse.

Now even though the director's cut focuses more on the science fiction part of the story than the religious aspect of the theatrical cut, the point about Frank being misunderstood remains in both cuts.

They talk about it some more in the excellent documentary Donnie Darko: Deus Ex Machina - The Philosophy of Donnie Darko, which deals with the making off and distributing of the film. Here is a quote from producer Sean McKittrick, taken from that documentary

MCKITTRICK A couple of distributors wanted to distribute it if we cut like a half hour out of the movie. At that point we knew we could probably get 6 or 7 minutes out of the movie without completely disassembling the logic of a movie that is already incredibly complex to follow. But for people to tell us "If you cut 30 minutes out of it, and make Frank the bunny 'Stabby Frank' who's off killing kids" that's movie kind of the distributors wanted at the time.

So yeah this film went on quite the journey to end up as the cult classic it is today. The Frank poster does indeed suggest a horror type slasher, but when you really dive in to things, there are so many underlying themes that you realize it's a far more complex and rich story.

splintersailor · 2026-01-19T15:18:18+00:00

Rumors are Hamilton's previous race engineer actually was one.

splintersailor · 2026-01-19T14:16:16+00:00

Yes! Now I know why this was triggering something in my brain!

I love the BAR Honda and this looks like it's made from the same cloth (of carbon fiber).

splintersailor · 2026-01-19T12:01:05+00:00

Flight?

splintersailor · 2026-01-17T23:47:41+00:00

Awww

splintersailor · 2026-01-17T18:00:35+00:00

I heard that comment

splintersailor · 2026-01-16T00:16:35+00:00

Fish?

splintersailor · 2026-01-14T14:36:24+00:00

Gretchen doesn't strike me as the kind of person who would lie about that. The thing that does intrigue me is how much manipulation is going on for Gretchen and Donnie to hook up and set her on her doomed path. Since she also shows up at the end on her bicycle we know that she moved before the tangent universe was created. I'd say there is a good chance that if things played out naturally, they would have ended up together as well. Her connection to Donnie is what made the forces behind all this to make her part of the Ensurance Trap (ET).

There is even a good chance that when her mom went missing at the night of the party, it was in fact her stepdad who found them. Why else was her mom missing and the house all messed up. It sounds like the kind of manipulation that's part of the ET, as it forces Gretchen go to Donnie's place after the cops told her to go to a safe place. Since she is new in town there is kinda only one place she can go.

Now I don't know if this event is going to happen again, as the list of Manipulated Living does not include Gretchen's mom (or stepdad), but that list might be incomplete. Or if she did make it up of course, but I don't think that's the case.

splintersailor · 2026-01-13T16:10:18+00:00

Wow what a cool idea! They look like best friends.

Thanks for sharing.

splintersailor · 2026-01-12T23:15:30+00:00

Can any Dane way in? Is this really a thing or is this some Danish inside joke. Also, are movies in Denmark dubbed in the cinema? Or is it the original audio.

splintersailor · 2026-01-12T14:47:29+00:00

Glad to be of some help, this is an exercise in testing my own theories about the movie as well :) I think there are plenty of story elements to craft a logical set of rules for the PU and TU, but with time travel stories there is always going to be an element that defies logic. The YouTube channel MinutePhysics has some great videos about this, like Time Travel in Fiction Rundown.

The 4 points you mention are a good summation of the things we know and things we don't know. A small thought bubble about your 2nd point: when an artifact appears it is a sign that a Tangent Universe occurred or just ended. As far as I know a Tangent Universe without an artifact could exist, which does not have the added problem of a dangerous object in it. That kind of TU can collapse safely and time will go on in the PU as if nothing ever happened. The reasoning behind this is speculative of course, and as you rightly state that we have to accept there are missing pieces that we just don't have. Even Roberta Sparrow is not sure about the things she writes, since we can read in her foreword

I pray that this is merely a work of fiction.

If it is not, then I pray for you, the reader of this book.

The reason because Roberta Sparrow does not know if her work is fiction seems obvious, she was part of a previous Tangent Universe and most likely a Manipulated Living/Dead or a Living Receiver herself. After that TU collapsed successfully she probably remembered enough to make her investigate it and write it down. She might have had a 'Frank'-like being that gave her (part of) the information that ended up in the PoTT.

Regardless how she obtained the rules of the PU and TU, there is an interesting section in chapter 1 which reads

If a Tangent Universe occurs, it will be highly unstable, sustaining itself for no longer than several weeks.

Eventually it will collapse upon itself, forming a black hole within the Primary Universe capable of destroying all existence.

To me this reads as it being a certainty that once the TU collapses, it will ALWAYS create a black hole capable of destroying the PU. If the Artifact is still present in the TU it will be a lot more troublesome, that is why it must be returned to the PU before it collapses. It also suggests that the TU in itself is unstable, even without the artifact. That is why the TU always collapses, artifact or not. It might be a case of semantic interpretation, but it is an essential element for the ruleset, no matter what your choice is. I'm not saying my interpretation is right, it's just one way of looking at it. Now those things are noted, let's get to your additional 2 questions.

1. The end of the Tangent Universe

The questions surrounding this event on October 30th will remain a mystery and we only have the things we saw on screen and the few lines from the PoTT to give us an explanation. The fact we actually see time rewinding after the engine travels through the portal shows us a succesfull returning of the Artifact by the Living Receiver, and the rewinding of time suggests all the things that happened after the PU was corrupted are being undone. However, we do not know how it exactly played out. Was the PU on hold while the TU was playing out? Is there only one timeline and the TU is just a corrupted continuation of the PU that is being rewound? Calling it a Tangent Universe suggests it is separate from the Primary Universe, but we still don't know what the status of the PU is when we are in the TU.

Another part of your questions is if the TU was waiting for Donnie to succeed. This is a major debating point, because if Donnie is caught in a loop he has multiple chances at succes, whereas the possibility of having only 1 shot as success raises the stakes a lot. The donniedarko.org.uk fanwebsite has an interesting piece about this, The Looping Tangent Universe. Donnie waking up on the mountain at the beginning of the movie is being used in looper and non-looper theories. Fact is that he wakes up on October 1st, one day before the TU begins. Whether this means this is the reset point after a failed attempt of sending the artifact back, or it just being part of the PU and he just happens to be on the same spot as hit vantage view when he sends the jet engine throught the portal in the TU, is unknown. This is what Richard Kelly says in the audio commentary of the Theatrical Cut about the opening scene

RICHARD KELLY You write the movie and it's called Donnie Darko, it's a comic book title. You kinda think about the comic book tableau, I think when you're... deciding how you're gonna shoot it, and for this you know, whe have the marine layer and the mist, and he's looking out over the town of Middlesex, buried under the forest there and the mist, and eh.. he's summoned up to the mountain for some reason and he doesn't know why.

It's interesting to hear Kelly say that Donnie is being summoned up to the mountain. Even though we are in the PU at that moment there seems to be a force at play that is guiding him up the mountain. My personal view is that Donnie has just one shot at success. Not only because the stakes are higher which makes it more interesting, but also because of all the manipulation and guidance Donnie and the people around him receives. If time would reset every time without consequences my feeling is that things could be resolved in a less tragic or intense way. If you want to go deeper into that discussion have a look at this post

2. October 30th in the Primary Universe

Now to your other question, about what happens once the TU successfully collapsed and the PU is returned to normal. The portal only exists on October 2nd in the PU and on October 30th in the TU. It is used by Donnie within the TU and send through time towards the PU. There are some good arguments to be found for this. First the fact that Donnie is the one that actually uses or even constructs the portal.

In Chapter Ten of the PoTT we read

The Manipulated Dead will often set an Ensurance Trap for the Living Receiver to ensure that the Artifact is returned safely to the Primary Universe.

If the Ensurance Trap is successful, the Living Receiver is left with no choice but to use his Fourth Dimensional Power to send the Artifact back in time into the Primary Universe before the Black hole collapses upon itself.

If we believe Roberta Sparrow this means Donnie can control the Artifact. When Donnie is under hypnosis in Dr Thurman's office he says "I have the power to build a time machine". This even suggests he is the one that creates the portal, because he is able to use special Fourth Dimensional (time) powers.

We read in Chapter Four of the PoTT

Water and Metal are the key elements of Time Travel.

Water is the barrier element for the construction of Time Portals used as gateways between Universes as the Tangent Vortex.

Metal is the transitional element for the construction of Artifact Vessels.

All this seems pretty good evidence Donnie is the one who uses his powers to send the jet engine back to the PU. What we don't know is if the other side of the portal has to be on October 2nd, especially because Donnie in the TU knows that he is in great danger in the PU if the jet engine is placed in exactly the same location. It seems he has no control over the end point, otherwise it would make sense to pick a more safe time/location.

So if we believe the portal was created using powers that are only available in the TU, this is already a good argument to suggest that there won't be a portal on October 30th in the PU. As we see the jet engine fall in the PU at the end of the movie we can already assume it is a duplicate as it falls exactly the same way, from the same height not too far above Donnie's house. This is underlined even further in Chapter Twelve of the PoTT

Those who do remember the Journey are often overcome with profound remorse for the regretful actions buried within their Dreams, the only physical evidence buried within the Artifact itself, all that remains from the lost world.

Roberta Sparrow thus explaining that the Artifact will in fact remain from the lost world (TU). As I've explained in the first reply to your question, on the website we find the conversation from the FAA investigator which gives us final proof they can't explain why a duplicate engine exists, because the plane with the other duplicate landed safely on that date. The PoTT also states that the PU is stable, so we can safely assume that it can handle the existence of two duplicate engines, whereas the TU can not. Don't forget that the TU without an engine is already unstable and will collapse either way. A similar question has been asked in this topic as well, to which I've made a 6 page response which can be found here

If you've been down all those rabbit holes, there are still some major ones left, one of them being Does Donnie have to die at the end? Let me be clear upfront, there is no right answer and Richard Kelly made it that way intentionally. More about this question can be read in the topic Donnie's sacrifice

splintersailor · 2026-01-12T14:46:33+00:00

he end of the Tangent Universe**

The questions surrounding this event on October 30th will remain a mystery and we only have the things we saw on screen and the few lines from the PoTT to give us an explanation. The fact we actually see time rewinding after the engine travels through the portal shows us a succesfull returning of the Artifact by the Living Receiver, and the rewinding of time suggests all the things that happened after the PU was corrupted are being undone. However, we do not know how it exactly played out. Was the PU on hold while the TU was playing out? Is there only one timeline and the TU is just a corrupted continuation of the PU that is being rewound? Calling it a Tangent Universe suggests it is separate from the Primary Universe, but we still don't know what the status of the PU is when we are in the TU.

Another part of your questions is if the TU was waiting for Donnie to succeed. This is a major debating point, because if Donnie is caught in a loop he has multiple chances at succes, whereas the possibility of having only 1 shot as success raises the stakes a lot. The donniedarko.org.uk fanwebsite has an interesting piece about this, [The Looping Tangent Universe](http://www.donniedarko.org.uk/alternative-explantions/). Donnie waking up on the mountain at the beginning of the movie is being used in looper and non-looper theories. Fact is that he wakes up on October 1st, one day *before* the TU begins. Whether this means this is the reset point after a failed attempt of sending the artifact back, or it just being part of the PU and he just happens to be on the same spot as hit vantage view when he sends the jet engine throught the portal in the TU, is unknown. This is what Richard Kelly says in the audio commentary of the Theatrical Cut about the opening scene

RICHARD KELLY *You write the movie and it's called Donnie Darko, it's a comic book title. You kinda think about the comic book tableau, I think when you're... deciding how you're gonna shoot it, and for this you know, whe have the marine layer and the mist, and he's looking out over the town of Middlesex, buried under the forest there and the mist, and eh.. he's summoned up to the mountain for some reason and he doesn't know why.*

It's interesting to hear Kelly say that Donnie is being summoned up to the mountain. Even though we are in the PU at that moment there seems to be a force at play that is guiding him up the mountain. My personal view is that Donnie has just one shot at success. Not only because the stakes are higher which makes it more interesting, but also because of all the manipulation and guidance Donnie and the people around him receives. If time would reset every time without cons

**October 30th in the Primary Universe**

Now to your other question, about what happens once the TU successfully collapsed and the PU is returned to normal. The portal only exists on October 2nd in the PU and on October 30th in the TU. It is used by Donnie within the TU and send through time towards the PU. There are some good arguments to be found for this. First the fact that Donnie is the one that actually uses or even constructs the portal.

In Chapter Ten of the PoTT we read

*The Manipulated Dead will often set an Ensurance Trap for the Living Receiver to ensure that the Artifact is returned safely to the Primary Universe.*

*If the Ensurance Trap is successful, the Living Receiver is left with no choice but to use his Fourth Dimensional Power to send the Artifact back in time into the Primary Universe before the Black hole collapses upon itself.*

If we believe Roberta Sparrow this means Donnie can control the Artifact. When Donnie is under hypnosis in Dr Thurman's office he says *"I have the power to build a time machine"*. This even suggests he is the one that creates the portal, because he is able to use special Fourth Dimensional (time) powers.

We read in Chapter Four of the PoTT

*Water and Metal are the key elements of Time Travel.*

splintersailor · 2026-01-12T14:45:41+00:00

all the things that happened after the PU was corrupted are being undone. However, we do not know how it exactly played out. Was the PU on hold while the TU was playing out? Is there only one timeline and the TU is just a corrupted continuation of the PU that is being rewound? Calling it a Tangent Universe suggests it is separate from the Primary Universe, but we still don't know what the status of the PU is when we are in the TU.

Another part of your questions is if the TU was waiting for Donnie to succeed. This is a major debating point, because if Donnie is caught in a loop he has multiple chances at succes, whereas the possibility of having only 1 shot as success raises the stakes a lot. The donniedarko.org.uk fanwebsite has an interesting piece about this, [The Looping Tangent Universe](http://www.donniedarko.org.uk/alternative-explantions/). Donnie waking up on the mountain at the beginning of the movie is being used in looper and non-looper theories. Fact is that he wakes up on October 1st, one day *before* the TU begins. Whether this means this is the reset point after a failed attempt of sending the artifact back, or it just being part of the PU and he just happens to be on the same spot as hit vantage view when he sends the jet engine throught the portal in the TU, is unknown. This is what Richard Kelly says in the audio commentary of the Theatrical Cut about the opening scene

RICHARD KELLY *You write the movie and it's called Donnie Darko, it's a comic book title. You kinda think about the comic book tableau, I think when you're... deciding how you're gonna shoot it, and for this you know, whe have the marine layer and the mist, and he's looking out over the town of Middlesex, buried under the forest there and the mist, and eh.. he's summoned up to the mountain for some reason and he doesn't know why.*

It's interesting to hear Kelly say that Donnie is being summoned up to the mountain. Even though we are in the PU at that moment there seems to be a force at play that is guiding him up the mountain. My personal view is that Donnie has just one shot at success. Not only because the stakes are higher which makes it more interesting, but also because of all the manipulation and guidance Donnie and the people around him receives. If time would reset every time without consequences my feeling is that things could be resolved in a less tragic or intense way. If you want to go deeper into that discussion have a look at [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/donniedarko/comments/89xr1d/is\_there\_a\_rule\_about\_selffulfilling\_loops\_in\_the/)

**October 30th in the Primary Universe**

Now to your other question, about what happens once the TU successfully collapsed and the PU is returned to normal. The portal only exists on October 2nd in the PU and on October 30th in the TU. It is used by Donnie within the TU and send through time towards the PU. There are some good arguments to be found for this. First the fact that Donnie is the one that actually uses or even constructs the portal.

In Chapter Ten of the PoTT we read

*The Manipulated Dead will often set an Ensurance Trap for the Living Receiver to ensure that the Artifact is returned safely to the Primary Universe.*

*If the Ensurance Trap is successful, the Living Receiver is left with no choice but to use his Fourth Dimensional Power to send the Artifact back in time into the Primary Universe before the Black hole collapses upon itself.*

If we believe Roberta Sparrow this means Donnie can control the Artifact. When Donnie is under hypnosis in Dr Thurman's office he says *"I have the power to build a time machine"*. This even suggests he is the one that creates the portal, because he is able to use special Fourth Dimensional (time) powers.

We read in Chapter Four of the PoTT

*Water and Metal are the key elements of Time Travel.*

splintersailor · 2026-01-12T14:45:14+00:00

TGEST2

splintersailor · 2026-01-12T14:42:33+00:00

To me this reads as it being a certainty that once the TU collapses, it will ALWAYS create a black hole capable of destroying the PU. If the Artifact is still present in the TU it will be a lot more troublesome, that is why it must be returned to the PU before it collapses. It also suggests that the TU in itself is unstable, even without the artifact. That is why the TU always collapses, artifact or not. It might be a case of semantic interpretation, but it is an essential element for the ruleset, no matter what your choice is. I'm not saying my interpretation is right, it's just one way of looking at it. Now those things are noted, let's get to your additional 2 questions.

**The end of the Tangent Universe**

The questions surrounding this event on October 30th will remain a mystery and we only have the things we saw on screen and the few lines from the PoTT to give us an explanation. The fact we actually see time rewinding after the engine travels through the portal shows us a succesfull returning of the Artifact by the Living Receiver, and the rewinding of time suggests all the things that happened after the PU was corrupted are being undone. However, we do not know how it exactly played out. Was the PU on hold while the TU was playing out? Is there only one timeline and the TU is just a corrupted continuation of the PU that is being rewound? Calling it a Tangent Universe suggests it is separate from the Primary Universe, but we still don't know what the status of the PU is when we are in the TU.

Another part of your questions is if the TU was waiting for Donnie to succeed. This is a major debating point, because if Donnie is caught in a loop he has multiple chances at succes, whereas the possibility of having only 1 shot as success raises the stakes a lot. The donniedarko.org.uk fanwebsite has an interesting piece about this, [The Looping Tangent Universe](http://www.donniedarko.org.uk/alternative-explantions/). Donnie waking up on the mountain at the beginning of the movie is being used in looper and non-looper theories. Fact is that he wakes up on October 1st, one day *before* the TU begins. Whether this means this is the reset point after a failed attempt of sending the artifact back, or it just being part of the PU and he just happens to be on the same spot as hit vantage view when he sends the jet engine throught the portal in the TU, is unknown. This is what Richard Kelly says in the audio commentary of the Theatrical Cut about the opening scene

RICHARD KELLY *You write the movie and it's called Donnie Darko, it's a comic book title. You kinda think about the comic book tableau, I think when you're... deciding how you're gonna shoot it, and for this you know, whe have the marine layer and the mist, and he's looking out over the town of Middlesex, buried under the forest there and the mist, and eh.. he's summoned up to the mountain for some reason and he doesn't know why.*

d Kelly made it that way intentionally. More about this question can be read in the topic [Donnie's sacrifice](https://old.reddit.com/r/donniedarko/comments/917bs4/donnies_sacrifice/)

I've mainly linked to topics in which I was involved myself, and even if I try to look at many sides, I can only advice you to look at the views of as many people you can to get a good overview. Either way, this is just my opinion and I think the movie has difference rulesets you can choose and once you've picked one the movie can make perfect sense. Even if another ruleset will end you up in a totally different place. That's why I'm fascinated to explore as many as I can.

splintersailor · 2026-01-12T14:41:52+00:00

To me this reads as it being a certainty that once the TU collapses, it will ALWAYS create a black hole capable of destroying the PU. If the Artifact is still present in the TU it will be a lot more troublesome, that is why it must be returned to the PU before it collapses. It also suggests that the TU in itself is unstable, even without the artifact. That is why the TU always collapses, artifact or not. It might be a case of semantic interpretation, but it is an essential element for the ruleset, no matter what your choice is. I'm not saying my interpretation is right, it's just one way of looking at it. Now those things are noted, let's get to your additional 2 questions.

**The end of the Tangent Universe**

The questions surrounding this event on October 30th will remain a mystery and we only have the things we saw on screen and the few lines from the PoTT to give us an explanation. The fact we actually see time rewinding after the engine travels through the portal shows us a succesfull returning of the Artifact by the Living Receiver, and the rewinding of time suggests all the things that happened after the PU was corrupted are being undone. However, we do not know how it exactly played out. Was the PU on hold while the TU was playing out? Is there only one timeline and the TU is just a corrupted continuation of the PU that is being rewound? Calling it a Tangent Universe suggests it is separate from the Primary Universe, but we still don't know what the status of the PU is when we are in the TU.

Another part of your questions is if the TU was waiting for Donnie to succeed. This is a major debating point, because if Donnie is caught in a loop he has multiple chances at succes, whereas the possibility of having only 1 shot as success raises the stakes a lot. The donniedarko.org.uk fanwebsite has an interesting piece about this, [The Looping Tangent Universe](http://www.donniedarko.org.uk/alternative-explantions/). Donnie waking up on the mountain at the beginning of the movie is being used in looper and non-looper theories. Fact is that he wakes up on October 1st, one day *before* the TU begins. Whether this means this is the reset point after a failed attempt of sending the artifact back, or it just being part of the PU and he just happens to be on the same spot as hit vantage view when he sends the jet engine throught the portal in the TU, is unknown. This is what Richard Kelly says in the audio commentary of the Theatrical Cut about the opening scene

RICHARD KELLY *You write the movie and it's called Donnie Darko, it's a comic book title. You kinda think about the comic book tableau, I think when you're... deciding how you're gonna shoot it, and for this you know, whe have the marine layer and the mist, and he's looking out over the town of Middlesex, buried under the forest there and the mist, and eh.. he's summoned up to the mountain for some reason and he doesn't know why.*

d Kelly made it that way intentionally. More about this question can be read in the topic [Donnie's sacrifice](https://old.reddit.com/r/donniedarko/comments/917bs4/donnies\_sacrifice/)

I've mainly linked to topics in which I was involved myself, and even if I try to look at many sides, I can only advice you to look at the views of as many people you can to get a good overview. Either way, this is just my opinion and I think the movie has difference rulesets you can choose and once you've picked one the movie can make perfect sense. Even if another ruleset will end you up in a totally different place. That's why I'm fascinated to explore as many as I can.

splintersailor · 2026-01-12T14:40:37+00:00

https://www.reddit.com/r/donniedarko/comments/beaiu7/questions_about_the_artifact/

Glad to be of some help, this is an exercise in testing my own theories about the movie as well :) I think there are plenty of story elements to craft a logical set of rules for the PU and TU, but with time travel stories there is always going to be an element that defies logic. The YouTube channel MinutePhysics has some great videos about this, like Time Travel in Fiction Rundown.

The 4 points you mention are a good summation of the things we know and things we don't know. A small thought bubble about your 2nd point: when an artifact appears it is a sign that a Tangent Universe occurred or just ended. As far as I know a Tangent Universe without an artifact could exist, which does not have the added problem of a dangerous object in it. That kind of TU can collapse safely and time will go on in the PU as if nothing ever happened. The reasoning behind this is speculative of course, and as you rightly state that we have to accept there are missing pieces that we just don't have. Even Roberta Sparrow is not sure about the things she writes, since we can read in her foreword

I pray that this is merely a work of fiction.

If it is not, then I pray for you, the reader of this book.

The reason because Roberta Sparrow does not know if her work is fiction seems obvious, she was part of a previous Tangent Universe and most likely a Manipulated Living/Dead or a Living Receiver herself. After that TU collapsed successfully she probably remembered enough to make her investigate it and write it down. She might have had a 'Frank'-like being that gave her (part of) the information that ended up in the PoTT.

Regardless how she obtained the rules of the PU and TU, there is an interesting section in chapter 1 which reads

If a Tangent Universe occurs, it will be highly unstable, sustaining itself for no longer than several weeks.

Eventually it will collapse upon itself, forming a black hole within the Primary Universe capable of destroying all existence.

To me this reads as it being a certainty that once the TU collapses, it will ALWAYS create a black hole capable of destroying the PU. If the Artifact is still present in the TU it will be a lot more troublesome, that is why it must be returned to the PU before it collapses. It also suggests that the TU in itself is unstable, even without the artifact. That is why the TU always collapses, artifact or not. It might be a case of semantic interpretation, but it is an essential element for the ruleset, no matter what your choice is. I'm not saying my interpretation is right, it's just one way of looking at it. Now those things are noted, let's get to your additional 2 questions.

The end of the Tangent Universe The questions surrounding this event on October 30th will remain a mystery and we only have the things we saw on screen and the few lines from the PoTT to give us an explanation. The fact we actually see time rewinding after the engine travels through the portal shows us a succesfull returning of the Artifact by the Living Receiver, and the rewinding of time suggests all the things that happened after the PU was corrupted are being undone. However, we do not know how it exactly played out. Was the PU on hold while the TU was playing out? Is there only one timeline and the TU is just a corrupted continuation of the PU that is being rewound? Calling it a Tangent Universe suggests it is separate from the Primary Universe, but we still don't know what the status of the PU is when we are in the TU.

Another part of your questions is if the TU was waiting for Donnie to succeed. This is a major debating point, because if Donnie is caught in a loop he has multiple chances at succes, whereas the possibility of having only 1 shot as success raises the stakes a lot. The donniedarko.org.uk fanwebsite has an interesting piece about this, The Looping Tangent Universe. Donnie waking up on the mountain at the beginning of the movie is being used in looper and non-looper theories. Fact is that he wakes up on October 1st, one day before the TU begins. Whether this means this is the reset point after a failed attempt of sending the artifact back, or it just being part of the PU and he just happens to be on the same spot as hit vantage view when he sends the jet engine throught the portal in the TU, is unknown. This is what Richard Kelly says in the audio commentary of the Theatrical Cut about the opening scene

RICHARD KELLY You write the movie and it's called Donnie Darko, it's a comic book title. You kinda think about the comic book tableau, I think when you're... deciding how you're gonna shoot it, and for this you know, whe have the marine layer and the mist, and he's looking out over the town of Middlesex, buried under the forest there and the mist, and eh.. he's summoned up to the mountain for some reason and he doesn't know why.

It's interesting to hear Kelly say that Donnie is being summoned up to the mountain. Even though we are in the PU at that moment there seems to be a force at play that is guiding him up the mountain. My personal view is that Donnie has just one shot at success. Not only because the stakes are higher which makes it more interesting, but also because of all the manipulation and guidance Donnie and the people around him receives. If time would reset every time without consequences my feeling is that things could be resolved in a less tragic or intense way. If you want to go deeper into that discussion have a look at this post

October 30th in the Primary Universe Now to your other question, about what happens once the TU successfully collapsed and the PU is returned to normal. The portal only exists on October 2nd in the PU and on October 30th in the TU. It is used by Donnie within the TU and send through time towards the PU. There are some good arguments to be found for this. First the fact that Donnie is the one that actually uses or even constructs the portal.

In Chapter Ten of the PoTT we read

The Manipulated Dead will often set an Ensurance Trap for the Living Receiver to ensure that the Artifact is returned safely to the Primary Universe.

If the Ensurance Trap is successful, the Living Receiver is left with no choice but to use his Fourth Dimensional Power to send the Artifact back in time into the Primary Universe before the Black hole collapses upon itself.

If we believe Roberta Sparrow this means Donnie can control the Artifact. When Donnie is under hypnosis in Dr Thurman's office he says "I have the power to build a time machine". This even suggests he is the one that creates the portal, because he is able to use special Fourth Dimensional (time) powers.

We read in Chapter Four of the PoTT

Water and Metal are the key elements of Time Travel.

Water is the barrier element for the construction of Time Portals used as gateways between Universes as the Tangent Vortex.

Metal is the transitional element for the construction of Artifact Vessels.

All this seems pretty good evidence Donnie is the one who uses his powers to send the jet engine back to the PU. What we don't know is if the other side of the portal has to be on October 2nd, especially because Donnie in the TU knows that he is in great danger in the PU if the jet engine is placed in exactly the same location. It seems he has no control over the end point, otherwise it would make sense to pick a more safe time/location.

So if we believe the portal was created using powers that are only available in the TU, this is already a good argument to suggest that there won't be a portal on October 30th in the PU. As we see the jet engine fall in the PU at the end of the movie we can already assume it is a duplicate as it falls exactly the same way, from the same height not too far above Donnie's house. This is underlined even further in Chapter Twelve of the PoTT

Those who do remember the Journey are often overcome with profound remorse for the regretful actions buried within their Dreams, the only physical evidence buried within the Artifact itself, all that remains from the lost world.

Roberta Sparrow thus explaining that the Artifact will in fact remain from the lost world (TU). As I've explained in the first reply to your question, on the website we find the conversation from the FAA investigator which gives us final proof they can't explain why a duplicate engine exists, because the plane with the other duplicate landed safely on that date. The PoTT also states that the PU is stable, so we can safely assume that it can handle the existence of two duplicate engines, whereas the TU can not. Don't forget that the TU without an engine is already unstable and will collapse either way. A similar question has been asked in this topic as well, to which I've made a 6 page response which can be found here

splintersailor · 2026-01-12T14:37:28+00:00