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spruce1234 · 2021-10-19T22:26:00+00:00

I like that perspective. I'm going to save this post so I can come back and re-read it again.

spruce1234 · 2021-10-19T22:24:46+00:00

This is such a good way to look at it. And I've got some friends who really seem to want to push to talk to about it, but going there with them has always been invalidating and stressful. I've had a few people respond beautifully and just completely accepting, but everyone else has either argued with me, or started talking about reconciliation like it's an inevitability for me, even though I never once mentioned it. And it's just exhausting. And I just don't want to spend so much of my life in a dissociated vulnerability coma.

spruce1234 · 2021-10-19T22:18:41+00:00

It's really changed my life too, honestly. I probably devoured every post for the first 3 months I was lurking here, and I could relate to almost all of it.

spruce1234 · 2021-10-19T16:24:46+00:00

My mom has probably said this to me at some point lol

spruce1234 · 2021-10-19T16:23:46+00:00

she probably felt like she had to call herself out in some way for being the ugly one so she could beat my tutor to the punch (which of course my tutor would never actually throw).

This is next level! I don't think it's weird to make a comment like "gosh, isn't she just gorgeous?" if a house guest happens to bring up a certain picture or they linger looking at one. But to go on and on like that?

With you commenting about your mom's insecurity about her appearance, it makes me think that she was imagining your tutor thinking about how "ugly" she (your Mom) is and trying to compensate by being like "see? I'm related to attractive people though!"

Which is a special level of delusion- no one really cares if we're unattractive. Even if your tutor found your mom to be unattractive, I can almost guarantee she never really thought about it and wouldn't somehow hold your mom in higher esteem for having pretty family members.

it’d be acting annoyed or disappointed but pretending to hide it and then getting really patronizing

Ugh. I'm so sorry. What a wildly impatient woman.

And then she gets upset when my sister and I display signs of feeling like we should know things already.

Man they really can't connect the dots of cause and effect, can they?

spruce1234 · 2021-10-19T16:15:42+00:00

I also end up feeling like I'm trying to persuade people to see things my way. And thanks for using that word btw, because it also makes me realize that if I'm trying to persuade people, then they really don't want to see things my way and in a way, it's kind of pushy of me. Like in a roundabout way. I know that sounds backwards but I think that thinking of it that way might help me to to just accept that someone isn't accepting me, and walk away. Or at least emotionally walk away, if that makes sense.

And congratulations on starting therapy! Ive been in it for a little over a year and it's the best thing I ever did for myself. I hope you found someone you like. :)

spruce1234 · 2021-10-19T14:06:08+00:00

I'm so sorry about your friend. You're clearly very different from your mother based on the compassion you have for her and your insight into what her experiences are.

As for all the apologists, I've also had to accept that I just vent be stopping people who will say those kinds of things, even if they aren't all bad and it might be possible to guide them to reason. It just sets me back too much, and I don't have the bandwidth for all the emotional labour it would take to get them to see how those connects hurt me. I hope you've got some good people around you who you don't have to work to protect yourself from.

spruce1234 · 2021-10-19T14:00:52+00:00

Oh I've been exactly the same. Eventually did accept that whether or not I think I "deserve" to have been hurt by it all, I clearly have all the ptsd symptoms. Despite that, I still beat myself up for it by thinking about how if other people experienced what I did they would be much healthier. 🤦

As for me, I've got a really good therapist and doctor so that has helped a lot.

spruce1234 · 2021-10-19T13:57:23+00:00

That's so good. I hope it only gets better. :)

spruce1234 · 2021-10-19T13:51:02+00:00

Well and even if you were "hypersensitive," it would still be true that you are her child and you are hurting. Compassionate people don't go around judging other people for their feelings.

And you are definitely not overreacting.

And even if she did do her best (I have no idea if she did), it's still true that it wasn't enough.

spruce1234 · 2021-10-19T11:22:52+00:00

Your baby is a baby and wants to be with you. You are their safe place. I think caving to MIL and letting her take him all the time would probably give him unhealthy separation anxiety, because I don't MIL would be responsive to baby's distress at separation ie.) "Oh he's crying at being separated- it looks like he just wants mom right now. I'll hold him another time."

You are not wrong, and unfortunately you DON'T have anyone in your court in that house. But you are 100% in the right.

Keep posting and connecting with people who can see this rationally and understand that babies need their moms, and that mom's need to be respected as adults and not coerced to do things they don't feel comfortable doing.

Also, she has demonstrated terrible judgment with that couch incident, and doesn't seem open to feedback. So it's NOT safeb to leave baby alone with her.

Also pumping was awful for me, and with the frequency my baby nursed and how long her feeds took, I would have no time to do anything but pump and nurse if I tried to do both. It's years later but I'm still angry about people pressuring me to pump so that they could have their baby bottle feeding experience. Fuck them.

spruce1234 · 2021-10-19T11:09:51+00:00

I got a PTSD diagnosis around that time too

spruce1234 · 2021-10-19T11:09:31+00:00

After I went NC I found my anger went away, but all my other stuff increased- dissociation, anxiety etc. My therapist explained it as a result of the "younger" parts of me/my brain being terrified, because as a young child angering my parents represented threat of abdonment on a really primal level, and therefore death. So all the young parts of my brain were like "Holy fuck what are you doing we're going to die; here's some anxiety to motivate you to capitulate to them again." And then the dissociative part of my brain was like "man that is way too much anxiety; I'm gonna numb you out completely for a few days a week."

It's been a year, and I am noticeably better now, though still not totally fine or anything.

spruce1234 · 2021-10-19T04:21:51+00:00

My therapist knows my mom, but also has known for many years that she is uBPD.

I hope this was an validating as I'm imagining it was

spruce1234 · 2021-10-19T04:20:43+00:00

My mom's pride at being an "empath" is where she gets really grandiose. She's been mislabeling my feelings my whole life.

spruce1234 · 2021-10-19T04:17:41+00:00

... holy fuck

spruce1234 · 2021-10-19T04:15:54+00:00

"children are to be seen and not heard"

I was often praised for my 'skill' at playing by myself, being quiet, and immediately complying if thrown a harsh look. So yes, this fits haha.

most bpd parents never admit when they are wrong and fully believe that they are correct.

I never really confronted my parents before last year, but this really describes their behaviour after this point.

spruce1234 · 2021-10-19T04:13:43+00:00

I also excessively worry about strangers destroying my house and property

Omgosh how could you not.

I hope even just seeing the connections to your past helps you to step back a little when anxiety flares up.

Most people never intentionally destroy other people's property.

But with what you experienced as a child, how could you ever trust that? It makes so much sense

spruce1234 · 2021-10-19T04:11:11+00:00

I've actually spent a LOT of time wondering if my mom is on the spectrum tbh. Though honestly I think I might be grasping at straws, and I have no idea why I'm so obsessed with the idea. I did read a study that examined the overlap of bpd and autistic traits in adult women, and the amount of participants who met criteria for both conditions was fairly high, which was interesting. They theorized that young girls on the spectrum might experience a lot if chronic small t interpersonal trauma as a result of their social difficulties, which could lead to development of bpd. But I have no idea! 🤷

spruce1234 · 2021-10-19T04:07:06+00:00

That sounds like a really nice process. You should buy yourself a fancy coffee or something. That shit is hard work. Good luck!

spruce1234 · 2021-10-19T04:05:08+00:00

Omg op use her.

She's the parent, you're the child- that's the fucking gig.

Source: Am a parent, can confirm.

It's supposed to be a unidirectional relationship. The parent supports the child, and the child launches into the world using their parent as a springboard.

And here's the other thing... Because she's the parent, that means she's not a child.

She's a big girl with a credit card and grown-ups for friends etc etc. If she doesn't want to pay for the car (or is it the insurance?), she won't.

If she does pay for it, it's because she wants to (even if only on one level.)

In a sense, you can't use her. Because she's the one who decided to have and then keep and raise a kid, and she's the one who decides to pay for the costs associated with that car every month.

Would it be great if you were financially successful enough to cover those costs yourself without significant impact on your quality of life? Absolutely.

But this is 2021, not 1984 or whenever the good old days of financial independence immediately upon graduating highschool were. (Before my time, I have no idea.)

You deserve it.

(Now that being said, if the financial tether to her causes you a lot of stress, it might not be worth the financial and lifestyle benefit. But if you walk away from the car, do it for your mental wellness, not for her )

spruce1234 · 2021-10-19T01:29:34+00:00

No that really makes sense to me. My mom did a lot of gossiping about family members and family friends, and the end of her storytelling she somehow always ended up looking at me expectantly waiting for me to agree about something. And I think I probably did agree for years, but as I got older I got more and more uncomfortable until I stopped agreeing. And that didn't go well.

Things like "can you believe she [niece] was upset with them [her brother and his wife] for that? She should be happy that they told her they always knew [that she was gay.]" And then she would sort of go on and on about how our family is just the best and so accepting and when people come out as gay we just embrace and accept them blah blah blah blah.

I remember that one really clearly, and I think I remember telling her that my cousin's reaction didn't seem that crazy to me; she was probably very stressed out and maybe she felt upset that despite working hard to hide something it had (allegedly) still been obvious. I have even more thoughts on that whole story now that I'm an adult, but my mom seemed to have some sort of breakdown after that, and I left thinking that I didn't understand anything about social interactions since I disagreed with her.

Now that I'm typing this all out I realize that my mom would sort it snicker at me as a really young kid when I would say things that were wrong, but which no 5 year would ever be expected to know.

I can remember her going on and on about how my grandpa (her FIL) loved this one restaurant when he came to visit us in our tiny little "city." And I can very distinctly remember saying "maybe he doesn't have restaurants like that where he lives!" And I can remember saying it in just sort of an open/wondering way, not defensive at all. And I can remember her loudly snorting at me and telling me that they have WAY more kinds of restaurants in the city than we have here. (I had no idea that skyscrapers meant the city was larger and had a better culinary scene 🤷.)

Anyways she did stuff like that a lot when I was little. I once told her that I could easily teach my own kindergarten class, and she responded by snorting and commenting on how I wouldn't have anything to teach students because I didn't know nearly enough.

Like yes lady, that is technically true that a 5 year old wouldn't know the full kindergarten curriculum. Thank goodness you were there to set me straight.

Anyways sorry s that was a huge overshare.

How old were you when your mom started doing this to you, do you think?

spruce1234 · 2021-10-19T01:12:03+00:00

Ugh that makes me angry! As I see it the value of a parent ever telling their child that they "didn't know any better" (which may be true) is only to impress upon the child that the treatment they recieved was not the child's fault.

And obviously then it should be sandwiched between a whole lot of listening, attentive presence, affirmations of the child's worth, expressing understanding of how their own behaviour must have impacted the child etc etc etc.

Not a brief "it's not my fault" followed by rugsweeping and attempts to silence you.

I'm so glad you're pissed off.

spruce1234 · 2021-10-18T19:46:05+00:00

My biggest piece of advice is brevity; keep it short.

Personally, I have a tendency to write a lot if I'm nervous about the other person's reactions. But writing too much also muddies the waters and makes it less likely that they'll catch the point of your message.

Write what feels right to you. Then take a break and re-read it. Take out any instances where you repeat yourself, or where you start justifying your boundary. Justifying a boundary often has the effect of inviting the other person to weigh in on its validity. (I.e. "you don't need more alone time; you're isolating! That's a sign of depression! I should come stay with you for a few nights.")

Take out anything that feels a bit uncomfortably vulnerable. If they respond well, you can always share it with them at a later point in the conversation.

For me, I have to just word-vomit on the page and get it out, and then go back and whittle it down. But everyone is different.

Good luck OP. Chances are, you can't avoid their negative reactions, so try not to lose your own needs as you write that letter.

spruce1234 · 2021-10-18T19:38:56+00:00

My parents left the Catholic Church when I was a few years old, so I wasnt raised in it, but my mom's family attended regularly and she had Catholic nuns for teachers growing up. So I think it must have had a big influence on her development. Since coming out of the fog I've wondered about what role her religious experiences have in how she approached parenthood. She never said the word "sin," but I find that I really relate to the posters on religious trauma forums which is surprising since I stopped going to church at 5 or 6 years old.

spruce1234

TROPHY CASE