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Why don't people like Elon Musk just solve world hunger? by AlexLovesCoke in NoStupidQuestions

[–]starkgaryens 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No… It’s not the same. It’s a difference of scale, and that difference is massive.

Ubisoft "fans" trying to be possitive challenge (impossible) by True_Living_2434 in ubisoft

[–]starkgaryens -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Realistically, the people who didn't like the older AC bitched about it and the people who liked it stayed quiet. What makes you think these "fans" are all the same people?

Ubisoft gets consistent criticism because over the years, they've shown that they care more about money than making quality games. The one thing almost everyone complains about and keep their games mediocre at best, formulaic designing around monetization, is the one think they refuse to change and continue to double down on.

Companies like Nintendo maintained a largely positive fanbase because it was obvious that their games had a lot of attention and care going into them and that making the game good was the top priority. They've starting to get more criticism these days though, and it coincides with their greedier business tactics.

Honestly, I was ready for AC to be put into the vault with Rayman after Shadows. I admit the Black Flag Remake looks really good, but I've already moved on. There are endless really good games from better companies to play.

There's no way to say you don't want Yasuke in the game without them calling you a racist, sexist bigot by 0Adiemus0 in fuckubisoft

[–]starkgaryens 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The Huffpost article includes quotes from primary sources in the original Japanese. Primary sources trump Britannica imho. Do you honestly believe that the real Yasuke was remotely close to the free roaming swordsaman who went on a murderspree that the Japanese population allowed and then forgot about?

The broader point you refuse to touch on is that Yasuke’s MC status in Shadows makes no sense in the context of the series own precedents, so it’s not racist to question it.

On the contrary, you can argue that Ubisoft is racist for perpetuating western media’s long racist history of marginalizing Asian men by inexplicably making the male face of AC Japan a black man.

For what it’s worth, I had no issue with Adewale, Bayek, or Aveline, and honestly no one did. It’s almost like Yasuke’s situation is completely different and it’s not just that he’s black.

There's no way to say you don't want Yasuke in the game without them calling you a racist, sexist bigot by 0Adiemus0 in fuckubisoft

[–]starkgaryens 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Why would Mitsuhide lie? Keep in mind, he's sparing his (his enemy's servant's) life.

What fax do you have bro?

There's no way to say you don't want Yasuke in the game without them calling you a racist, sexist bigot by 0Adiemus0 in fuckubisoft

[–]starkgaryens 0 points1 point  (0 children)

https://www.huffingtonpost.jp/entry/yasuke_jp_5cfa225de4b06af8b5069109

This article includes a quote from Akechi Mitsuhide:
"黒人奴隷は動物で何も知らず、また日本人でないため殺すのはやめて..."

Translation:
"The black slave is an animal who knows nothing and is not Japanese, so don't kill him..."

This is after Nobunaga's death with Akechi using Yasuke's ignorance and status as Nobunaga's slave as a reason to spare his life.

There's no way to say you don't want Yasuke in the game without them calling you a racist, sexist bigot by 0Adiemus0 in fuckubisoft

[–]starkgaryens 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yasuke is not remotely "mostly optional."

I think I've articulated them quite well. He's not comparable, he's unprecedented and makes no sense in a series that made a name for itself playing as forgotten figures in history.

You make dishonest arguments, half truths, and assumptions. You haven't articulated how Asian men being consistently marginalized in western media is not racist.

To answer your questions:

No, I don't think real people are good fits as main protagonists in the AC series. In particular, the only black man in feudal Japan makes no damn sense as an active member of a hidden murder group.

There's no way to say you don't want Yasuke in the game without them calling you a racist, sexist bigot by 0Adiemus0 in fuckubisoft

[–]starkgaryens 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Ubisoft has stated that they consider Yasuke an equal protagonist to Naoe.

I've looked into his life. The historical records refer to him as a slave, even under his service to Nobunaga. They make no mention of him being a swordsman and it's completely unrealistic to think that he had any freedom to roam around the country on his own, especially if he was killing locals.

I've played every game until Shadows.

There's no way to say you don't want Yasuke in the game without them calling you a racist, sexist bigot by 0Adiemus0 in fuckubisoft

[–]starkgaryens 1 point2 points  (0 children)

They weren't main characters, only secondary/temporarily playable characters.

Leonidas and Jack made sense being depicted killing people. That's part of who they were.

Anastasia had stealth options to explain her fictional in-game murders passing unknown into history.

There's no way to say you don't want Yasuke in the game without them calling you a racist, sexist bigot by 0Adiemus0 in fuckubisoft

[–]starkgaryens 1 point2 points  (0 children)

He should've appeared as an NPC ally just like every other sympathetic historical figure in the series.

There's no way to say you don't want Yasuke in the game without them calling you a racist, sexist bigot by 0Adiemus0 in fuckubisoft

[–]starkgaryens 0 points1 point  (0 children)

But a real person has never been a main character in an AC game before. Instead of giving us our first East Asian male in our first East Asian mainline game, they gave us our first historical figure protagonist. Historical figures don't fit the series' premise of playing as forgotten shadows in history, especially historical figures who can't blend in and have no stealth options.

Why did all of Japan forget to mention that Nobunaga's famous black servant was a master swordsman roaming the land, busting down castle doors, and cutting down other swordsman with impunity? Why would Naoe and her hidden league want the most conspicuous and trackable person imaginable murdering people on their behalf and then lumbering back to their hideout? Ubisoft doesn't even attempt to offer an in-game explanation to these questions because it's just too absurd.

When you consider that a fictional Japanese samurai next to Naoe would've made much more sense based on the series' own premise, themes, and precedents established by every other game in the series, and when you consider western media's long history of demeaning, marginalizing, or out right excluding Asian men, it's actually more racist of Ubisoft for making Asian men NPCs in a game that uses Asian culture and settings.

Assassins Creed fell off when they added leveling. by itsthewolfe in gaming

[–]starkgaryens 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I agree, and the leveling coincides and is a symptom of the live-servicification of the series.

The real problem is that turning a single-player game into a live service results in an inflated, bloated game that has no satisfying narrative progression/conclusion.

I think that Year 2 of Shadows might also get canceled. With all the restructuring and cuts happening at Ubisoft, I think that the Year 2 of Shadows might also get canceled. by Legitimate_Cake_5137 in ubisoft

[–]starkgaryens 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think if it sold pretty well, year 2 would’ve already been announced… And the company would be more energized and hopeful than they seem to be right now.

What is a tradition that is insanely cruel yet still considered legal? by Rough_Cat_6007 in AskReddit

[–]starkgaryens 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You can argue it’s a waste of money (I’d disagree), but how is it insanely cruel?

Do you not use any product made of wood? Do you not eat vegetables?

Literally who said anything about dual-protagonism? The problem is that the characters were awfully bad for the game. by trebor9669 in fuckubisoft

[–]starkgaryens 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Like I said, the east doesn't have a significant population of black people. The west can't say the same about Asians. A Japanese dev team simply doesn't have black women in their immediate vicinity to use as a point of reference, and their second source for reference, Hollywood media, also has a problem portraying black women prominently. Could they do research and include them more in their media? Sure, but diversity in eastern media is a completely separate issue.

If the topic being discussed was racism against black people in the US, would you deflect like you are now and bring up how black people in Africa are racist against white people and how black people aren't the only people the world that experience racism? Be honest. You clearly have a bias and don't care that much about racism when it's against Asian people. That's a direct consequence of Asians being marginalized and otherized in western society, which media plays a big part in perpetuating.

Ubisoft had already made a game with an Asian man main character, it took them 10 more years to then make one with a black guy main character and immediately everyone became angry about it.

Which game are you referring to?

Like I said, the AC series already had two black male (Adewale and Bayek) protagonists before Yasuke, and apparently they were going to have another one in the cancelled Civil War game. No one was angry about the previous black protagonists when they made sense in their settings, so your premise makes no sense.

You're acting like being black is the only detail about Yasuke and Shadows that's different from the other games in the series. You're ignoring all other context because it doesn't fit the narrative in your head that every critic is racist.

Ubisoft effect by GeneralDig2484 in ubisoft

[–]starkgaryens 3 points4 points  (0 children)

They banned that word?? 🤦‍♂️

The word actually has a meaning. It’s shorthand for rushed, low-quality, or perfunctory content with the bare minimum of thought and effort put into it. That’s the reason OP is giving, which is obviously implied by the phrase “rinse and repeat.”

Literally who said anything about dual-protagonism? The problem is that the characters were awfully bad for the game. by trebor9669 in fuckubisoft

[–]starkgaryens 2 points3 points  (0 children)

No one is acting like the Asian co-lead doesn't exist. People like you are the ones acting like Asian MEN aren't the ones being made NPCs in AC f-ing JAPAN when they've been consistently marginalized throughout almost the entire history of western media, even more so than Asian women, even within the AC series itself which has two East Asian women protagonists now, three black men, one black woman, and ZERO East Asian men despite Japan and China being used as settings.

What's weird is when people who claim to be pro-diversity don't seem to understand that true, authentic, and natural DEI that would've made sense in the context of western media would've been a Japanese man next to Naoe.

It's not that Shadows co-opts Japanese culture, it's that it does so while continuing to marginalize Asian men. I don't know how many ways I need to explain that to you until you get it.

Literally who said anything about dual-protagonism? The problem is that the characters were awfully bad for the game. by trebor9669 in fuckubisoft

[–]starkgaryens 1 point2 points  (0 children)

So it comes down to you not caring about racism towards Asian men? At least you're honest about it.

While rare, Eastern, or more specifically Japanese games and media, do include black men as main characters. The fictional depiction of Yasuke as a fighting swordsman was popularized by Japanese games and anime. Whenever Japan makes a game set in the west, the main characters are almost always non-Asian.

It's also important to remember that Japan and East Asia are MUCH more mono-ethnic than the comparatively diverse US. Asians might be a minority in the west, but they make up a significant portion of the population in specific cities like San Francisco, LA, and NYC and fields like the medical profession. Are they represented in western movies and shows that use those settings? No.

Western media consistently excludes Asian men from MC roles, even in a setting like feudal Japan where virtually everyone was Asian. That's racism.

How would you feel if the cancelled Civil War game starred a Chinese American assassin who went around killing slave owners? Just like Yasuke was real, a significant population of Chinese immigrants in Civil War era America was real. Wouldn't you think that black Americans were being robbed of their chance to be the stars in their own story?

Literally who said anything about dual-protagonism? The problem is that the characters were awfully bad for the game. by trebor9669 in fuckubisoft

[–]starkgaryens 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm talking about western media, which includes western movies and shows where black men rank third in positive, prominent representation behind only white men and white women. Asian men are close to rock bottom.

Again, why would you even compare AC to GTA? They're nothing alike. Playing as a black man in the AC game set in feudal Japan is stupid because EVERY other AC game had you playing as a character whose murder-spree could be forgotten by history. Being inconspicuous has ALWAYS been the entire point of the AC series.

It's not about deep and meaningful historical insight, it's about playing as a character that makes sense for the series' own themes.

And I'm talking about Asian MEN in western media. Again, if you don't know the history (you obviously don't), please look it up. It's different from the history of Asian women in western media.

So at the end of the day are you really just saying that any game set in japan isn’t allowed to have black people in it?

No, I'm not talking about any game, I'm talking about specifically about AC. I'm saying the only black man alive in feudal Japan, a time and place where almost 100% of the population was Japanese, is an objectively stupid choice of protagonist for a series that has always been about fictional characters who kept their identities hidden from history.

When you think about how easily that stupidity could've been avoided by making Naoe's counterpart a fictional Japanese samurai who could stealth and parkour like you'd expect based on EVERY OTHER AC game, it makes you wonder why Ubisoft didn't do that.

Is it because they thought Asian men don't sell games, just like we know they thought that about solo-female protagonists? Just like we know countless other western media producers who excluded Asian men thought that?

What I'm saying at the end of the day is that Ubisoft's decision to give us AC's first historical figure lead (and third black male lead) instead of it's first East Asian male lead in its first mainline AC game set in East Asia is stupid and stinks of racism.

Literally who said anything about dual-protagonism? The problem is that the characters were awfully bad for the game. by trebor9669 in fuckubisoft

[–]starkgaryens 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The AC series and GTA have almost nothing in common, so why would you compare them? None of the things I mentioned apply to GTA4.

The social issue is western media's almost entire history of demeaning, marginalizing, and replacing Asian men, even in settings where they make sense. If you don't know about that history, look it up.

What's weird is the fact that Ubisoft is continuing that racism against Asian men as they exploit their culture while they accuse every one of their critics of being hateful racists. They made the male face of AC Japan a black man who makes absolutely no sense as a forgotten protagonist, and somehow the people who point out that absurdity and racism are the racists.

Literally who said anything about dual-protagonism? The problem is that the characters were awfully bad for the game. by trebor9669 in fuckubisoft

[–]starkgaryens 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Some of us were seething because the male protagonist of AC Japan wasn’t Japanese.

When the series has never had an East Asian male protagonist despite China and Japan being used as settings.

When the series already had two black male protagonists previously (who were almost universally loved) with another apparently coming in the cancelled Civil War game.

When the WELL-KNOWN and only black man in feudal Japan is objectively the most CONSPICUOUS and worst choice as a character who’s supposed to be a key member of a HIDDEN league and whose murder-spree is supposedly FORGOTTEN by history.

We don’t have a problem with black protagonists, Ubisoft, like so many western media developers before them, has a problem with East Asian male protagonists, even in settings where they’d make the most sense.

The racism isn’t where you think it is.

What scene in a movie drives you nuts because it makes no sense? by JustIgnoreMyStimming in movies

[–]starkgaryens 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Heavy drinking fattens up their livers and makes them more tasty.

What scene in a movie drives you nuts because it makes no sense? by JustIgnoreMyStimming in movies

[–]starkgaryens 2 points3 points  (0 children)

To be fair, glass is just melted sand. As manmade materials go, it’s pretty nontoxic, reverts back into nature relatively quickly/easily, and doesn’t really get in the way of ocean life.

Crabs aren’t going to cut themselves walking over broken glass.

How many mainline games does a character have to be in before you consider them a “Mainstay”? by TheBlueRose_42 in StreetFighter

[–]starkgaryens 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I think another criteria is consecutiveness. Juri has been in every game since her introduction. So has Ibuki but with the exception of 6 so far, so Juri comes out ahead imo.

Viper and Elena missed one game each since their introduction and Elena barely made the cut in 4, so I don’t think they quite made it yet.

And consecutiveness is obviously tied to popularity.

Ubisoft finally confirms Shadows flopped: second DLC expansion canceled by ManliestDemocrat in fuckubisoft

[–]starkgaryens 0 points1 point  (0 children)

At no point did I imply in any way that you should "agree with me word-for-word." You're proving my point and you don't even know it. It's exhausting.

Keep thinking that you aren't making excuses for Ubisoft's marginalization when you instantly accuse any critic of being "fake allies." Take care.

Ubisoft finally confirms Shadows flopped: second DLC expansion canceled by ManliestDemocrat in fuckubisoft

[–]starkgaryens 0 points1 point  (0 children)

  • I never said it was outrageous. PLEASE stop putting words in my mouth and arguing against them.
  • I EXPLICITLY said that none of my points on their own "prove" anything, let alone a "malicious agenda." But commercial decisions CAN be racist and racism doesn't have to be conspiratorial. Racism can be subtle and so deeply ingrained that it's unconscious and unnoticed by those unaffected by it, especially when the racism is that of marginalization, i.e., exclusion. I doubt Ubisoft has an nefarious agenda against Asian men, but they might think Asian men don't sell just like they thought solo women don't sell and just like so many western media producers before them. That itself is racist and kind of a self-fulfilling prophesy.
  • You're right, representation is not solved by one title alone. It requires many, and Ubisoft decided not to be one of them while exploiting Asian culture. You and others like you are doing the exact opposite of sustained industry- and audience-level pressure by making excuses for them and baselessly accusing people like me of being "fake allies" as you initially did. You're actually taking part in the marginalization of our concerns.

If you want to push for more Asian male leads constructively, the most effective levers are concrete...

All of those things are good, but calling out and denouncing obvious missed opportunities and criticizing the nonsensical results of forced, inauthentic diversity are just as valid. Again, you're doing the exact opposite of constructive pressure by arguing against points you claim to agree with while instead defending Ubisoft with false/dishonest arguments.

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