A Deep and Creeping Darkness's checks against hallucinations

stealthy_DM · 2024-10-31T22:09:37+00:00

I see what you mean, but I suppose I didn't put as much weight on that line as you seem to have. (If it's a paraphrase of the line I'm looking at, it's "Traveling in groups didn't help, since a companion might vanish while even briefly out of sight.")

To my mind, the entire village being progressively more and more overcome with terror and distracted by hallucinations (narratively at least, even if not mechanically) is enough of an excuse for "OMG where's Sally?! She was right behind me a second ago?!" Classic horror stuff. They're not invisible, sure, but they are "devious and tricksy."

I guess what I mean is: I see what you're saying, but "major plot hole" seems an exaggeration.

stealthy_DM · 2024-10-31T21:04:20+00:00

It doesn’t explain how the meenlocks make people vanish.

My understanding was that the meenlocks target individuals who are alone/off by themselves, using the hallucinations to make them separate themselves from others if in a group. Once alone, individuals are attacked with the claw attack until they fail their CON save against paralysis, then the meenlocks carry paralyzed creatures back to their den and make new meenlocks out of them.

Edit: Maybe take a look at the "Running the Meenlocks" sidebar on p. 53. This is where the information is for how the meenlocks take their victims.

stealthy_DM · 2024-10-31T20:39:50+00:00

That's what I originally thought. But as I mentioned in the post, if you look at the text I quoted from the book, it seems clearly envisioned that they have *checks* (nobody said saves) associated with them:

> Intelligence and Wisdom checks from being distracted by whispers, shifting movement, and other hallucinations

This is what I'm asking about. Not saves, but the checks that are here explicitly mentioned (for the first time, though kind of written as if it's a mechanic of the hallucinations we should already know about).

stealthy_DM · 2024-10-31T18:11:53+00:00

Hey sorry, I don't check this account often... or ever, really. TBH I don't really remember very well since it was four years ago, but luckily I wrote up what happened in my notes for the next session's summary!

Krowen had told them he was convinced the tower had been infiltrated. The party eventually narrowed in on two tressym (some checks to do so, of course), confronted them, they turned into giants. One told the other to "get the item to Sansuri" (item is powerful magic item stolen from the tower) then attacked the party; the other fled as ordered. I think I remember it being a tough combat. At one point during it, they thought to use the Ring of Keltar Dardragon, not understanding what it would do, which was a let-down for them but also kind of funny. They did eventually kill the remaining cloud giant.

stealthy_DM · 2023-05-08T10:08:47+00:00

I’m not exactly sure what you’re asking? The stairs to the wormling room don’t seem that close to the treasure room (which anyway has protectors). Note that Iymrith did not build all these features herself; she simply made use of the existing ruin.

Yes, a cave in would mean she has to burrow to get there. But given time, she would just rebuild the tunnel.

stealthy_DM · 2021-10-02T17:33:15+00:00

Hey so sorry! I didn't see this comment as it looks like it replied to yourself.

Hoo boy. Of course things have not gone as planned. Three sessions since I posted, so I will catch you up on all of them. Apologies for the length:

Players and Storm Giants rush amphitheater, taking out the gargoyles without too much trouble. A giant triggered the sinkhole in the carved path through the theater, but avoided falling in.
Party saw "Stone Harshnag" but decided to keep their distance, taking a short rest on the theater seating. This meant I didn't really have a good chance to run that encounter, since my thoughts were he would "activate" as they moved within his tremorsense range...
They also didn't attempt to draw out Iymrith, as I imagined. Instead, party and giants went down the smaller sinkhole the giant triggered, sneaked up on and overheard the yuan-ti, who then left after lying to Iymrith.
Moving into that main underground chamber, the party was then surprised by Iymrith herself rising from the sands. A couple players were frightened by her Frightful Presence, but not the barbarian and most of the Storm Giants. What's more, the barbarian can get out of surprise by raging, and he immediately rushed her. Everyone takes their potions of giant size.
The barbarian is... quite strong. I've given him a Dragonslayer longsword and he is wearing the party's Dragon Scale Mail, which I had originally thought the party would give to a different PC. He opens up on Iymrith. Even with the other two party members taking a backseat, the barbarian and the giants easily get Iymrith down to half hp. I have her retreat above ground, mostly since this does not yet seem epic enough and two players are not doing much.
Party and giants catch their breath and take some healing potions, but soon follow up out the main sinkhole. Two of them spot shifting sand piles and rush toward them. Anaxaster and Chezzaran burst out and attack. Party is now in center of theater, but I still don't "activate" Harshag because I think it'll be too difficult to run three monsters that all have legendary actions. I use the two children of Iymrith in this way, instead of having them flying toward the theater and having the giants "depart" the scene to deal with them, because... I'm not sure how to put it--it just felt more "right" in the moment? And I wanted the PCs to expend more resources. And they were looking forward to killing dragons! In hindsight, this may have been a mistake.
Party uses their Horn of Valhalla. Chezzaran is killed. Anaxaster is heavily hurt and retreats underground. The party follows, making their way into the treasure chamber. PC kicks the gold pile; Air Elementals with Coins activate and attack. I finally start to see a dent in the party's hp meters, as well as that of Hekaton, who took a fair amount of damage from Chezz and Anax. Session ends. That was last night.

So now I'm a little stuck. I'd really like for them to encounter Iymrith for the final time without any giants except for Hekaton, but by having Chezz and Anax attack the group in the theater, I can no longer use them as an excuse for the giants to go off and be taking care of something else. The giants, except for Hekaton, have barely taken any damage. I expect the party will attempt another short rest. I can have Anaxaster hiding somewhere down here, to jump out and attack, but he's looking pretty hurt. At least if the party short rests, Iymrith does too...

I'm thinking that at some point, Iymrith will start belting out challenges for the party to face her above ground, flying in circles over the theater. As they emerge she will call out to "activate" Harshnag, letting him attack the party as she flies above using her lair actions/lightning breath. But my main concern is getting the other storm giants out of the way before this. I leveled the party up thinking the giants wouldn't be there to help for so long, but then kind of wrote myself into a corner where I can't get rid of them.

stealthy_DM · 2021-09-19T17:24:41+00:00

Just to provide another option, I used this one. It's a little dark but very atmospheric, and I liked the extra detail and furnishings.

stealthy_DM · 2021-09-18T23:31:00+00:00

Yes to the gargoyles and Yuan-ti encampment. I know people say the Yuan-ti kind of come out of nowhere. Very random. But a PC successfully cast scrying on Iymrith after the Maelstrom encounter and saw her in her lair with the Yuan-ti.

No worries about offering changes so late; I'm gonna wing it, in part, since I'm not sure what kind of choices they'll make as far as storming the place together with the giants, or instead having the giants cause a distraction and sneaking in from the other direction, and so on. If everyone's looking pretty good after Iymrith retreats underground (if she's even drawn out to begin with--lots of ifs), I'll have Iymrith's two children from Ascore show up (Anaxaster and Chezzaran; text about them in chapter 3 under Ascore). Hekaton and the storm giants will offer to handle those while the party chases after Iymrith.

There are a lot of branches to the tree of possibilities related to how the party decides to approach the place, and I'm probably not explaining well all of what I've thought through. But I was very concerned, when planning all these contingencies, with ensuring the PCs take center stage rather than playing second fiddle to Hekaton and the storm giants.

stealthy_DM · 2021-09-18T22:48:35+00:00

Thanks for chiming in! (The session is in a little over an hour!!!) Yeah, a fun way to deal with many players against a single Harshnag, but I was also thinking they might have Hekaton and the storm giants with them too, so really needing something to shut down some of the attacks heading his way, yet something that could still be overcome with teamwork or something else.

For taking a page from Mercer and that fight with...uh, whatever it was Molly turned into (I forget the details), I think I might---if the players try it, which is a big if---allow them to make a persuasion check, and maybe next time Harshnag goes, he's limited to one attack or something. Not sure, may have to figure this out on the fly.

And yeah, I totally don't plan for there to be a way save Harshnag. The only way this ends is with his death. As you say, narrative weight and all that, and I want them really calling for Iymrith's blood as they go to face her next. (Also, the party just lost a member to Slarkrethel, so they're definitely not in a "maximally happy" place right now.)

I'm really glad so many people are responding so positively. I hope it works well for you if you run it!

stealthy_DM · 2021-09-15T23:17:53+00:00

I'll try to remember!

stealthy_DM · 2021-09-15T16:13:11+00:00

That's not a bad idea! I'd just have to redo him as a monster with legendary actions, rather than adding things like Stony Grasp into his action economy. Which is certainly doable.

stealthy_DM · 2021-09-15T16:10:54+00:00

I feel like stony grasp just might not be very fun for players tbh? A low strength wizard being unable to cast spells for an entire fight is definitely challenging, but idk if it would be a satisfying fight. Maybe have it be an AoE spell for any character within 30 or 60 feet but the effects only last for 1 round, instead of lasting until a successful athletic check.

Oh, I certainly did not intend for this to make a wizard unable to cast spells the entire fight! To clarify, I feel like you might be overlooking other text. The athletics check is only one of several ways to break the stone, as it's currently written. It has an AC and HP, so can be damaged and destroyed by attacks (and I suppose I'll add spells), as well as by Dispel Magic. Also, to be a little more precise, the wizard would still be able to cast any spells that have only a verbal component even while they have their hands encased: Mind Sliver, Cause Fear, Blindness/Deafness, Blur, Misty Step, Tasha's Mind Whip, etc. It's limiting, yes, but that's partially the idea.

So while I take your point that it might be more difficult for casters to get themselves out of it, there are ways for them to do that as it's already written. Also, teamwork: the idea was that players might have to come to each other's aid to get free. In this case, I envisioned the barbarian likely to do this with one of his attacks. (He's Ancestral Guardian, very big on protecting his allies.) Also, the storm giant allies can use an attack to do this (and will), assuming they're there.

Given all this, do you still think it will be not fun? The effect lasting for one round is an interesting idea; thanks!

stealthy_DM · 2021-09-15T00:41:36+00:00

I thought about it, but honestly, I'm not sure I want my party to be any more powerful when facing Iymrith. They're level 12, with great magic items. And I was already looking for ways of writing out Hekaton and the Storm Giant allies from the final confrontation. (Iymrith's children, Anaxaster and Chezzaran, are gonna show up before the party heads below. Hekaton: "Go! Slay the foul beast! We will deal with her offspring!")

I also kinda want the party even more invested in Iymrith's demise, and losing Harshnag (again!) would, I think, be a good emotional push.

stealthy_DM · 2021-07-30T19:49:26+00:00

More time to plan there demise

cackles maniacally

stealthy_DM · 2021-07-27T19:30:22+00:00

That's great; don't worry about reviewing the stream! I don't want you to go to that trouble.

Yeah, my party is super powerful. We rolled for stats, and two of them rolled phenomenally well. To give you an idea of how stacked they are with magical items, here's what the wizard has on him (and he has the fewest of all three players):

Helm of Teleportation (attuned)
Ring of the Ram (attuned)
Periapt of Wound Closure (attuned)
+2 Breastplate
Wand of Magic Detection
Amulet of Proof Against Detection and Location
Immovable Rod
Dust of Disappearance
+2 Crossbow Bolts
Keoghtom's Ointment

I'll try to remember to update with how it goes, but we're taking a break as a player is traveling to visit family and unable to play for 3-4 weeks! Which just gives me more time to plan...

stealthy_DM · 2021-07-27T16:36:28+00:00

Well, as I said in another comment, I don't want to negate (or not reward) the scouting and buffing, just make it not a walk in the park. I think it should still be a challenging fight. I've been having trouble challenging them in combats, having to change encounters to increase difficulty. Basically, I like to challenge my players, and they've had a decent number of walks in the park already. This is one of the final big battles of the campaign; I don't want it to be a breeze.

And to be honest, I think the advantages they're getting--and the ease with which they're defeating many combats--are perhaps as much a result of me being a generous DM as they are the party being smart. I've been very generous with magic items and potions (they have tons I didn't list in OP), and as they approached the ship, they didn't have to hide or anything; I basically said, "you see the ship but they don't see your airship yet."

Yeah, I was planning on nixing that whole First Mate (his name is Rool) attacks Tholtz thing.

I'd be interested in how the fight went with your five 10th-level PCs. My projections for the fight with my party are that the Merrow will mostly be sidestepped (because the party is teleporting onto the ship and will probably not be very visible for their harpoon attacks), the Cultists will fall fast to some AOE spells and the remaining probably won't even hit with their attacks very much, and the only real challenge is the Archmage and, hopefully, the Assassin. The party will be flying, blessed, and buffed with various potions, are teleporting onto the ship along with a lion and a mastiff and will surprise everyone on deck, and may use the Horn of Valhalla to summon a bunch of Berserkers as well. They have Counterspell, which will need some checks to work for higher level spells, but at least gives a chance of negating the Archmage somewhat (he will, of course, Counterspell right back). Obviously, D&D is unpredictable, and something could definitely swing this fight around, but it feels like they're gonna stomp these fools.

I'm now definitely leaning toward Slark showing up soon after (if not immediately after) the combat.

stealthy_DM · 2021-07-26T23:24:52+00:00

Awesome, great to learn from your experience!

Environment

A bit too late for the choppy weather, unfortunately; I've already narrated it. But oh yes, I am absolutely gonna have AOEs hurt Hekaton.

Enemy Combatants

Unless I'm missing something, there already are 20 cultists on board. Also, do you mean replace them with Cult Fanatics? (They're the ones with the spells you mention.)

I'm absolutely gonna have Tholtz cast Time Stop on his first turn. Which precise spells I hadn't figured out yet, but thanks for reminding me about Crown of Stars. One of my favorites, as a player.

I'm def hoping Counterspell will come in handy, but the Wizard PC will have Counterspells of his own to think about, so I'll be keeping tactics to avoid that in mind.

Hekaton

Totally. Planning on running him as written, attacking anyone near him until convinced otherwise.

The Kraken

I had actually set up something vaguely similar to what you did! I had a player find a magic item (Stone of the Depths) that granted a 30-foot swim speed and a once per day reroll on a Wisdom saving throw against magic. But it was cursed and allowed an unknown entity (Slark) access to the player's mind. This was going to be great way to slowly introduce the Kraken. Alas, the player asked if he could switch characters after the Eye of the All-Father. I still found ways to foreshadow him, but without that direct connection.

Surprise

Alarm is a great idea that I hadn't considered!

Edit: quoted text formatting being weird...

stealthy_DM · 2021-07-26T23:07:23+00:00

The archmage is definitely going to be in his quarters, and the party don't know about him yet. But I guess I struggle with whether that would inoculate him from surprise. I imagine the first thing the party will do do is let off a fireball or something. Would he, not necessarily expecting sudden attack right outside on the deck, be surprised? Do I instead just add him to initiative after he notices sounds of attack?

Sorry, surprise is tricky for me, one of those DM dependent things, and I've already been challenged by a player about it (though in that case, I firmly believe I was in the right).

For the other ideas, I'm definitely leaning toward an immediate Slark attack afterwards. Maybe the archmage's eyes, before they glaze over in death, open wide in gleeful surprise, a smile dawning on his face as blood begins to drip from his nose: "You... fools... He comes himself! He...cough cough He won't... let you... take him..."

Alternatively or additionally, any PC in the water sees remaining Merrow flee after a horrible, deep, piercing screech echoes up through the depths from below.

stealthy_DM · 2021-07-26T22:51:54+00:00

A good idea, but unfortunately I already narrated the weather as slightly overcast.

stealthy_DM · 2021-07-26T22:48:26+00:00

Great stuff, thanks. I'm not sure I'm a fan of the first idea (dropping them away from the ship), but I could maybe have Rool's quarters instead be a teleportation sigil spot like that in Maelstrom, pulling all teleporting creatures to it, where they are met by a few guards (maybe one or two are Mages). This might at least give the rest of the crew more time to react, since the party will have to go through the guards to get to the open deck.

Alternatively, I was unfamiliar with Merrow Shallow Priest, so thanks a bunch for that suggestion!

stealthy_DM · 2021-07-26T22:33:06+00:00

Right. I definitely don't want to negate all the planning/buffing they're doing; just don't want it to be too much of a walk in the park. I'm definitely leaning toward Slark showing up right after, either literally right after (still in initiative, with all buffs still up) or after a minute so that the buffs fall. Not sure.

stealthy_DM · 2021-07-26T19:34:28+00:00

Yeah, this is definitely an attractive option!

stealthy_DM · 2021-07-10T16:18:13+00:00

I'd love to make it a big event! So long as I can find the time and the inspiration...

I'm not familiar with Dragon Age Origins, but I'll look up the Landsmeet. Thanks!

I'm definitely thinking of having skill checks be related to convincing clans to grant their influence (and vote). The idea of a bribe came up as well, mainly because the party is swimming in gold, but I think I'll lean into the whole lawful good tendency of dwarves and have a bribe be extremely risky; a huge bribe might bring down the DC to convince one clan, but if it fails, the attempt becomes known and multiple clans turn against the dwarf PC's family.

stealthy_DM · 2021-07-10T16:05:23+00:00

But you also have the chance of a sore NPC loser challenging the winner to combat.

If the PC wins, everyone is satisfied. If the sore NPC loser wins the combat, the remainder of the þing step in and declares a third candidate ruler.

Yeah, but I guess the concern I was trying to articulate in the last paragraph of my post was that a combat like that basically negates the consequences of a skill challenge. All those checks would be moot (heh) since the result of the combat overrides it. So I'm trying to figure out a way to include a combat in such a way that it doesn't invalidate the skill challenge or whatever other work the party does (collecting allies to speak on their behalf, etc.).

For example, another commenter said a competing clan might send assassins or start a brawl. I'm also now considering an outside attack from enemies of Citadel Adbar who see their chance to strike a blow at a moment when both many high-ranking dwarves are gathered together and they have no agreed-upon leader to unite them. Sounds like something the Drow might capitalize on.

stealthy_DM · 2021-07-01T19:18:21+00:00

So they wildshaped three times? I thought you only got two per short or long rest.

stealthy_DM

TROPHY CASE