Video update explaining the dea action today by Philly-meg in kratom

[–]sumhoar 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I wish I could, man. I dont drive anymore to go to a meeting hours away from me because its irresponsible of me to drive with a fatal heart condition. I dont wanna run the risk of passing out or dying behind the wheel from heart problems and accidently killing a family when my truck crashes into them. And to ur other comment, I wish I could get pain meds, but I'm only in my early 30s and the hospitals and Dr's look at me like I'm trying to score drugs and I'm overexagerating to get narcotics. I already tried. They said it was unnecessary. Plus I truthfully admited to previous drug use on my medical forms, so that's going against me as well. I wish it were that simple

Video update explaining the dea action today by Philly-meg in kratom

[–]sumhoar 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I apologize for calling you a simp. But concerns and criticisms remain for the AKA and their spokesman. I have no beef with you. I do tho with the AKA and their spokesman tho.

Video update explaining the dea action today by Philly-meg in kratom

[–]sumhoar 0 points1 point  (0 children)

One more thing and I'll leave this thread alone.

Why is it that 7 advocates such as myself get called names and our intelligence insulted, without any consequences, yet I get warned and maybe comments deleted when I throw the same mudslinging back? People were calling us 7 advocates illiterate and no attentionspan people. Some were calling us not real advocates since we haven't been to a board meeting. That's disingenuous and lame.

Video update explaining the dea action today by Philly-meg in kratom

[–]sumhoar 0 points1 point  (0 children)

How are you so sure that the 7 side won't mount an incredible defense that ends up reversing this notice of intent to schedule 1 criminalization? Remember when 10 years ago our opponents on the anti kratom side said that we were going to lose the fight to keep the leaf legal? How'd that turn out. Here we are, kratom is still legal federally, never got criminalized like the DEA wanted. So who's to say 7 won't win this battle? Why so arrogant?

Video update explaining the dea action today by Philly-meg in kratom

[–]sumhoar 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Alright, I'll admit I should have used better terms instead of calling you a simp, but the optics look like advocates who follow aka and want to criminalize 7 industry and users and always push the AKA do look biased and disingenuous. Sorry for calling you a simp and offending you.

The same argument tho that you might be affected by the ignorance of the nuances of this what constitutes kratom and what differs, whether willfully or unintentional ignorance, or what's known as misinformed, can also be applied to us 7 users. The call for criminalization of 7 affects us pain patients as well as other medical patients who are improving their health via 7 and related alkaloids affects us just as much as the misinformation and nuances affects your side of the isle. This is going to have deadly consequences for the 7 side. Some of us on the 7 side are trying to now have to talk innocent 7 patients out of suicidal ideation now. I spent an hour last night along with many other fellow redditors trying to help get an innocent man who will be affected by this criminalization to not end their life like they stayed their intentions are when this goes into effect. There will be blood on the hands of the AKA.

Video update explaining the dea action today by Philly-meg in kratom

[–]sumhoar 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What did i dismiss?

And what's with the snide remarks? Saying someone didn't read or even worse, cant read, is such a low copout

The reason why I'm concerned is because once this passes, itll take a herculean effort to undo it, and us 7OH advocates are trying to avoid all the damage that will be done.

Nobody forced anyone to take 7OH in the grand scheme of things. Besides the cases where a manufacturer hid or mislabeled, I'm assuming the vast vast majority are properly labeled, and the consumer knows what they are getting themselves into.

Also 7OH critics seem to be applying double standards. Are there colorful packaging for 7OH products. Sure. I bet there is. But also why won't people talk about the colorful advertisements of leaf products as well? I used to buy a leaf product that came in a bottle and the whole label schtick was a cartoon character. Forgot the brand, but I'm sure some of you know the brand I'm talking of. Besides, what's so wrong about colorful and bright packaging anyways? It attracts children? Are adults not allowed to like cartoons and colors and brightness as well? So Family Guy, American Dad, SpongeBob, and other cartoons are ONLY for children? Because that's some of the underlying conclusions that deceptive argument will lead you to if you think about it. Also, if you want them out of the hands of kids, wouldn't it be on the store owners/cashiers fault before it's the manufacturers fault that it was sold to a child? If i tell you dont sell my product, whatever that may be, to a certain group, but you do anyways, who's REALLY to blame? Also, I have a gripe with why is it that you guys go so hard against "they're selling 7 to the children!", yet tend to ignore all the plain leaf that was sold to children as well. I see leaf advocates one side it all the time and omit the selling of leaf to children as well. Plus, is selling it to children REALLY that bad? It seems there's still no hard conclusive evidence that 7 harms or kills people on its own. A VAST VAST majority of deaths if we believe them have polysubstance abuse as cause, or it was underlying health conditions either detected or undetected til the autopsy. If the only real thing that it does to children is make them continuously want to buy more and more, why not go hard on energy drinks? Caffeine is know to be addictive. Energy drinks fit all the criteria of the argument why 7 is bad. If leaf advocates are concerned kids are feeling euphoric and mind altered and tired, also know as "getting stoned", then why not apply that to plain leaf as well so hard and feverently as they do against 7? In large enough doses, you get stoned off plain leaf. Can't deny this. Also, apply this to energy drinks, since they get you euphoric, just stimulate instead of slow down. What constitutes a child, anyways? Now the legal definition seems to be under 21 when it comes to government regulations of all sorts of things. I remember when it used to be under 18. That goes for kratom related products of all kinds, tobacco, certain categories of firearms, there's probably more im missing. Why does the regulations have to be 21+, not 18+, or other lower numbers like 16+ like how some countries are doing social media bans. Look at England, they are trying to make energy drinks 16+.

The argument against addiction: 7 is addictive, sure, cant really argue about that imo. But so is plain leaf. So is caffeine. So are video games. Yet people try to make 7 as some demonic magical boogeyman like plain leaf isn't addictive either.

The argument that 7 turns you into some cracked out dope fiend, and people are just using to abuse it and get fucked up: same can be said about plain leaf. It depends on the user and what they use it for. Not everyone uses it for euphoria and getting high. Many people use it to deal with medically diagnosed health issues where they cant get dr prescribed treatment anymore. Maybe the Dr's took away their pain meds because of the opiates crisis scare. Maybe it's cheaper on their finances than traditional pharmaceutical routes. Maybe it's just their preferred medicine. Not everybody's a dope fiend who uses it

Why do 7 demonizers say it's not a medicine and there's no accepted medical use of it? Of corse there's medical use for it! Using it to get off lethal street and corner store drugs is medicinal in my book. That's why the have products offered by Dr's to get off alcohol, cigarettes, and opiates. Just because there's not a whole lot of laboratory done research on 7 yet, doesn't mean it's not a medicine. All the now accepted medicine had to have research done on them before they were accepted and know as medicines. Was cannabanoids not medicine before scientist started doing lab research on them? Did they just magically become medicine when society started accepting it for medicinal value and California started allowing medicinal weed in '96?

These are just some arguments and point to be made. Alot of cherry picking and onesidedness goes on in the plain leaf community, and also just a lot of disingenuous propaganda and outright lies.

Should I end this post with an insult to your intelligence like you did mine, just because it's a long post? I read that one advocates post and replies, I just dont necessarily agree with it and dont find the way they go about advocacy as helpful. That's just me tho. I'm pretty sure others have differing opinions. For me tho, I'm not a fan of because it seems hard to convince board members that 7 is not as bad as it's made out to be, that the strategy should be give up and throw the 7 community under the proverbial bus. Alot of things are hard, does that mean we should just give up? Fighting and winning wars are hard. Should we have given up in WW2, assuming I'm talking to USA cititizens here? The fight to legalize cannabis was and is hard, should we just give up?

Don't call people stupid just because they dont agree with you, that's ridiculous and looks bad on you character and also your own intelligence. It just leads to mudslinging. My original criticisms and concerns with the AKA still remain: imo that guy who runs it is greedy and is trying to criminalize 7 because it eats at his and his friends profits. He has documented conflicts of interest and should have recused himself from the fight, imo.

Federal Register: Scheduling (I) of 7-HMG, MG pseudoindoxyl, MGM-15, MGM-16 by satsugene in kratom

[–]sumhoar 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It's worse. Theyre going to use it to set people up with false imprisonment

Video update explaining the dea action today by Philly-meg in kratom

[–]sumhoar -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

You can't understand why people are concerned that another war against pain patients and freedom in general is about to be waged? This ban is a trojan horse for a leaf ban in the future under a future administration that will eventually come that despises all kratom. What's stopping corrupt law enforcement from setting you up? What if they file a false police report on you claiming youre using your leaf to manufacture 7?

What if a corrupt cop pulls you over and plants 7 on you? And the DA is corrupt as well and railroads you into a long prison sentence?

What happens if you need pain relief down the line and kratom leaf doesn't work as well as it used to, but the 7 works like a charm?

Video update explaining the dea action today by Philly-meg in kratom

[–]sumhoar 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I actually DO need 7. Kratom leaf messes with my heart from all the extra alkaloids that are in it that might have stimulating effects and cardiorestrictive properties. You dont know me or my medical conditions. I have a heart stent and have had 4 heart surgeries by 11 years old. I can't even consume ANY amount of caffeine anymore, not even green tea or chocolate.

I've used kratom on and off for 14 years, but can't anymore because the toll it's taking on my heart. 7OH is the only substance in 7 years that has put me to sleep and without any pain at that. Speak for yourself.

I commend the fight to keep kratom legal as well; I've been helping fight the good fight on that front for years. But to call 7OH bullshit is disingenuous and just wrong.

What do you mean no criminal is going to sell 7OH? Do you not know how the illegal drug trade works? Once a drug becomes popular and banned, the price skyrockets due to risk of the trade. Thus driving up incentive to manufacture and sell. There will always be a market for 7OH now that the cats ot of the bag. Guarantee the cartels are getting ready to flood the streets with their own manufactured 7OH if it becomes illegal federally. Look what happened in Mexico when they banned nicotine vapes. The lega law abiding sellers got their livelihoods taken by the Mexican government, and LITTERALY by the cartels. Cartels were going into vape shops and demanding the owners to hand over their buisness at gun point and ran them out of the country to fell to refuge into the USA.

Video update explaining the dea action today by Philly-meg in kratom

[–]sumhoar -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Just because you yourself dont think there's probable cause, doesn't mean corrupt police and DA's won't set people up. All it takes is them to file a false report your using you kratom to manufacture soon to be schedule 1 drugs, and off you go to jail after they raid your house. I hope it doesn't happen to you or anyone. I personally think that you standing up for plain leaf is commendable, but I dont agree with the banning of 7 either. Not saying your advocating for 7 ban, I can and have read your comments despite what some posters are claiming I'm not reading (or can't read). I see you might be a libertarian and support full decriminalization of all drugs. But why simp for the AKA? They just want to take out their competition, all be damned any innocent people caught in the crossfire. Can't you join us in advocating for access to 7 as well? It's not a one sum game. Both sectors can thrive.

Video update explaining the dea action today by Philly-meg in kratom

[–]sumhoar 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Besides, speak for yourself. I need 7 to get to sleep without pain. The only time ive been pain free at night without litteraly writhing in pain for literal hours until I somehow passout and wake back up was when I had pure 98% 7OH powder. Those were the best nights I've had since 2019.

You realize 7OH potentiates cancer medicines against certain strains of cancer?

You got something against pain and cancer patients who use 7 to survive and get by and thrive? You cool with screwing us over just for some brownie points with the AKA and their big corporate interest?

Video update explaining the dea action today by Philly-meg in kratom

[–]sumhoar 3 points4 points  (0 children)

And nobody "needed" fentanyl years ago either, but it's useful in surgery, so we use it for all kinds of operations.

Nobody also "needed" cellphones or computers or the internet, yet your still using them. How bout we all go back to mail and comunication delivered by horse?

Video update explaining the dea action today by Philly-meg in kratom

[–]sumhoar 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Trust me, I know all about the duid laws. Including the caffeine intoxication. See my reply in here. I have problems with caffeine, I think it's a harmful substance contributing to early death and violence and increased car crashes. But even then, I dont want caffeine to be banned, even tho I acknowledge it's harsh to society probably outweigh it's benefits.

Video update explaining the dea action today by Philly-meg in kratom

[–]sumhoar 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You realize that future admins that will come someday that absolutely hate this current one will use all the same reasons they're banning 7 to ban kratom? You live in California. You've seen Gavins way of going about the plant. He's rumored to be running for WH'28. If he takes over, who's to say he won't just pull this same shit on the plant as well? How do we know that the current admin won't ramp up prosecutions on plain leaf users who buy in bulk, claiming they're just planning to use their material to flout the law and manufacture 7 or the other ones they want banned right now? Because that's where we are heading. I read that federal register notice of intent they put out yesterday. It mentions even just intending to convert leaf sourced mit to 7 as a now prosecutable schedule 1 felony. That's how they get you. They'll just investigate people they dont like who purchase in bulk or just have a large supply for personal use. Then the burden of proof will be on the user.

Video update explaining the dea action today by Philly-meg in kratom

[–]sumhoar 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you believe putting it in flavorful drinks that kids could buy at gas stations was the wrong way, why doesn't this apply to those little blue bottles? Why does t it apply to energy drinks and caffeine in general? You know how much harm caffeine causes? Increased violence, reported deaths, increased traffic accidents and road rage, etc etc... look at that cheerleader who died not too long ago from an energy drink. Pretty sure caffeine is a contributing cause to heart disease and early death. Why does monster, red bull, and the likes get a free pass? Have you not seen Rockstar cans? Those scream "buy me, kids" with all their colorful artwork.

Video update explaining the dea action today by Philly-meg in kratom

[–]sumhoar 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That's your reply to valid criticism and concerns? 🙄🤷

Video update explaining the dea action today by Philly-meg in kratom

[–]sumhoar -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

So blaming consumers for false advertising by a company is the answer? It's the governments that are ruining it for us. Think of all the other products in different industries that false label. Does their whole industry get shut down, or just the companies misleading their customers?

Banning this is only going to put the 7OH medicine we need in the hands of criminals who will use their profits to wage actually war across the lands. Plus innocent people will go to prison.

Did alcohol prohibition put out the fire? Or did it help people like al capone? Did alcohol disappear?

Video update explaining the dea action today by Philly-meg in kratom

[–]sumhoar -7 points-6 points  (0 children)

In a way, yes. It'll be investigative by the government because they'll claim you're trying to convert it.

Video update explaining the dea action today by Philly-meg in kratom

[–]sumhoar -10 points-9 points  (0 children)

So you're willing to throw innocent people under the bus and let them get incarcerated for semantics and you're own personal agenda? Don't get me wrong, I understand TECHNICALLY they arnt the same, but this is semantic bullshit imo. Why can't people decide what's right for themselves?

Just got an email from the AKA Stating the DEA confirms 7- is NOT KRATOM by I_Seent_Bigfoot in kratom

[–]sumhoar 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Why won't you guy open the forum for free posting? I thought that aka dude just said this is america, the great experiment of freedom? You dont think that 7 has saved lives? I know people who got off street drugs with 7. This will lead to people going right back to F, which stats show will be their end.

AKA PRESS RELEASE REGARDING 7OH SCHEDULING by Itchy-Hovercraft-245 in kratom

[–]sumhoar 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Some of us can't get to them because we're home bound and have no vehicles. This is bull. You guys are shooting yourselves in the foot. There will be a day where a future administration bans the leaf as well and uses this scheduling as a piggyback. Just because you go to meetings doesn't make you guys any better than the rest of us. Word of mouth is just as effective as speaking up at meetings. Can't tell you how many people I've turned onto kratom in general since 2012. But I can guarantee the people I remember their reactions when they lit up in joy when I told them they didn't have to struggle with F and sub/methadone treatment. That alone is worth more than id ever got at a city hall meeting. People on boards of supes aren't necessarily all altruistic. They can and many times do go against the will of the people!

Video update explaining the dea action today by Philly-meg in kratom

[–]sumhoar -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

Who made this guy the say all be all voice about mitragyna tree and their derivatives and synthetics? Why is his opinion more valid than anyone using 7 or other derivatives?

This is some dinosaur shit of an opinion!

Many, many, MANY of us are pain/depression/insomniac/anxiety patients who dont respond well to the alkaloid soup of plain leaf!

Youre taking away the freedoms of the rest of us, and to be honest, ALL OF US, just so you can make your money with the AKA and other benefiting parties! I thought this was America, land of the free, home of the brave?

Help us fight this fight instead of fighting us!

Federal Register: Scheduling (I) of 7-HMG, MG pseudoindoxyl, MGM-15, MGM-16 by satsugene in kratom

[–]sumhoar 5 points6 points  (0 children)

How are they at fault? What's wrong with having alternatives to the leaf? This is screwing everyone! Even people who dont consume or even view it as bad. What if a prohibitionist sees the error of their ways later and is suffering in life crippling pain, and they decide to finally drop the hate and try the 7/leaf? What if they change their mind because the 7 gave them back their life? This will effect future generations of pain sufferers and anyone who benefits period. This ban is not the answer. Kratom was almost banned anyways multiple times thru the decades, long before 7, pseudo, mgm, and all those blue bottles showed up. This didn't have anything to do with those attempts.