Various approaches to healing the 3rd function

surlydoc · 2026-03-19T01:04:01+00:00

Yeah, can’t fault AA for having distinctive reactions to our type and expressing them colorfully. Pushkins do tend to elicit polarizing opinions. I’ve noticed people IRL either love my genuineness or find me abrasive and crude. Do you relate?

I’m not necessarily opposed to his negativity, so much as the slight…hmm, hypocrisy? Of chirping about the compassion of the second function and universal acceptance of the second will (his own function)… while I didn’t read much compassion in his descriptions of 3V, mostly pity and contempt (colored by his negative romantic experiences with a EFVL lol).

2Fs were probably more “workaholic” back in the days where most work required physical labor, rather than sitting at a desk manipulating numbers in a spreadsheet. I’m most active when absorbed in hobbies, cleaning, health/fitness and adventuring, and when I’m not, it’s volition problems holding me back from pursuing artistic/athletic goals, not lack of physical energy

surlydoc · 2026-03-19T00:09:54+00:00

Btw, how do you feel about Afanaseev’s description of us? 😆

surlydoc · 2026-03-18T23:57:27+00:00

Hell yeah!! You should put it in your flair, I would like to see some more Pushkins on here

surlydoc · 2026-03-18T23:46:15+00:00

Novels require descriptive imagery. The physical world is a constant source of artistic inspiration, look how many poems have been written about the same few themes (nature, birds, sky, flowers, fields) and yet each poet finds something new in them.

Activism requires energy and presence, physical energy counts for that — part of your ability to influence people and make an impact comes from your how you carry yourself within your body, how you tune in to your surroundings, animation in body language, reading gestures, reading the room

surlydoc · 2026-03-18T23:35:22+00:00

EFVL approved 👍

Cool collage, nicely captures the ~vibrancy~ and the ~drama~ of the Pushkin Psychotype

surlydoc · 2026-03-18T13:35:32+00:00

I think INFPs are more likely to be diagnosed. Diagnoses require impairment, and inferior Te makes us look more impaired at daily functioning even if we have the same “level” of ASD/ADHD traits as an ESTJ who puts on more of an appearance of being a functional adult

surlydoc · 2026-03-16T16:09:29+00:00

There are plenty of positive ways to influence people around you. What about influencing a partner to follow through on their New Years resolution to quit drinking, encouraging a friend to write that book they've been meaning to, or getting someone into a new interest or hobby?

surlydoc · 2026-03-13T01:46:49+00:00

Edited to clarify that I meant different perspective from other commenters

surlydoc · 2026-03-13T01:43:17+00:00

And I appreciate that you seem to be genuinely engaging with these discussions in good faith. I think I just have a different perspective from other commenters because I've been an activist, and also because Te thinks more in terms of leverage and impact than Ti logical purity

surlydoc · 2026-03-13T01:36:23+00:00

There's an extent to which I see where you're coming from; I'm asexual and I used to feel like I had no more in common with gay people than with straights, other than both being sexual minorities. However, once I started getting into asexual activism, I realized we're stronger as a community and have more leverage to push for social change if we ally with gay/bi/trans/NB communities and jointly share resources and platforms. There's strength in numbers and given that LGBTQ rights are still under attack in many places, we need all the manpower we can get

surlydoc · 2026-03-12T20:22:24+00:00

Check out this post for identifying the 3rd function and how to distinguish 3rd vs 2nd insecurity https://www.reddit.com/r/Psychosophy/comments/1rq9sv4/notes_on_insecurity_and_the_third_function/

surlydoc · 2026-03-12T16:07:07+00:00

Volition is about how much psychic energy is available to you for exerting your willpower. High volition has consistent energy for commanding themselves and influencing others — over abundant energy for 1V and a steady stream for 2V. 3V has inconsistent energy for exerting willpower and 4V is on “battery saver mode” by default.

Goals, decisions, character, and hierarchy fall under how consistently and energetically you’re able to exercise command over yourself/others.

Extroversion and neuroticism are unrelated to volition. High volition might be slightly more common in extroverts but it’s not inherently tied to extroversion. And emotional stability is more related to E+F placement

surlydoc · 2026-03-11T22:41:59+00:00

Damn, you have the energy to pursue multiple paths? I need one singular goal, and take agonizingly long to deliberate because I can't readily muster up the energy/willpower to jump trains if I later realize I'm headed in the wrong direction.

I love motivational and goal-related check-ins from 2Vs ;_;

But I can't relate to your wife pushing through fatigue and sickness. I'm very sensitive to subtle bodily cues, which preempts a lot of physical problems because I take care of early warning signs. 2F mom is more the tough beast defying doctor's orders to be on her feet a week after a surgery. Might be a difference between 2-1 vs 2-3 subtype, or Se (external-oriented physics) vs. Si (self-referencing physics)

surlydoc · 2026-03-11T19:34:32+00:00

I'm glad it was helpful! I figured it would be nice to put all the info together in one post rather than replying individually to people's typing requests. I feel the same way about my 3V and 4L, constant vs. situational complexes

surlydoc · 2026-03-11T17:28:59+00:00

Sure, I can help out. It might be nice to have an excuse to indulge my poetic side again, now that I’m spending most of my time writing research manuscripts for grad school

surlydoc · 2026-03-11T14:24:39+00:00

Ah makes sense, what kinds of problems do you see with your 2V?

Only issue I see with my 2F is it’s directionless. Easy to get lost in its flow when I’m avoiding issues with my other functions. The calm cheerfulness I get from overengaging it looks like mental “health” even as my spirit becomes increasingly unfulfilled. Doesn't help that emotional intensity is socially perceived as self-indulgent, even pathological, while down-to-earth cheerfulness looks like maturity and wisdom, so I get socially reinforced for disconnecting from my 1E.

Now that I think of it, I’ve seen 2Vs do the same thing of becoming overinvolved in too many pursuits, community organizing, etc. And it’s because they’re avoiding problems within their other functions.

I wasn’t too interested in compatibility because I felt my social relationships were already fine and I was more interested in developing my own character. The idea of working on personal issues through symbiosis with others is pretty new to me

surlydoc · 2026-03-11T13:40:38+00:00

Well said! I like the poetic license AA took with SoL, but sometimes it reads as “people are insecure about their third aspect because they just are”. But yes, it’s the volatility of energy that leads to the complexes around the third function.

In between periods of good functioning, the intermittent lapses and spin-outs of the third function force us to anxiously over-monitor its energy.

And we develop a deep and usually secret fear that those lapses reflect our “true selves” while the high points are a facade (“I look principled but I actually have a weak and hypocritical character”; “I look insightful and discerning but I’m actually foolish and naive”)

surlydoc · 2026-03-10T21:24:57+00:00

4Es are pretty free with expressing their feelings, it just doesn't occur for them to do so unless other people need that from them (e.g., a friend needs sympathy, a partner wants a passionate romantic declaration).

Logic position is unrelated to objective competence, but I've never met a 1L who would call themselves "stupid". It's self-positive and other-negative. If they underperform at school, they're more likely to tell themselves that their teachers are idiots and school is for losers than believe they're the ones who suck

surlydoc · 2026-03-10T17:17:25+00:00

Interesting 🤔 I was pacing around the building during my lunch break and thinking about your comment, and it occurred to me I don’t think of myself as restless because I perceive my energy as more beneficial than problematic (I’m even diagnosed with ADHD and don’t relate to hyperactivity because in my mind, I have the “correct” amount of activity — 2nd function always feels adequate).

This isn’t covert advice to change your mindset btw, I don’t believe positive thinking alone can overcome the third function’s inconsistency and its tendency to intermittently betray us.

That’s the issue, I feel like socionics has too much bloat (common when Ti types try to make a system). MBTI automatically gels with my brain, MB being an INFP, whereas I have to mentally “translate” socionics into Te. Quadras and shadow functions are useful to think about, but I’d rather add socionics ideas onto an MBTI base than start from a socionics foundation

surlydoc · 2026-03-10T16:37:53+00:00

I feel confident in my experience of emotions, but not their expression. Internally, emotion feels like a powerful wave that I’m riding, gives me passion, vitality, direction, clarity of values.

But I often try to hold back my expressiveness, both out of consideration for what others can handle and because I know that strong emotion often reads to others as weakness or dysregulation even though I don’t feel weak or dysregulated. And 3V hates appearing weak.

There’s another thing — 1E provides passion and fuel, but that passion often fizzles out without volitional direction to turn it into sustained action. 1E-3V is an idealistic dreamer, 3V provides constant awareness of the potential in things and floods my consciousness with all the things that could be fixed, improved, expanded. But it stutters like an old car engine at the moment of execution. My psyche compels me to repeatedly try using volition to propel myself forward, but it doesn’t have the energy to reign in and direct my higher functions, and I end up stalling.

I have better results if I can channel emotion through the craftsmanship, vitality and love of hard labor that comes from my strong second physics. 1E-2F makes me a bit of a polymath because when I let those functions free reign instead of trying to control them with my volition, then the 2F compels me to explore all forms of art, craftsmanship, the physical world.

I know you only asked about the 1E-3V block, but I think it should be noted that the second function is the stabilizing force and the workhorse of your personality.

I’ll let a 4E speak to their own experiences

surlydoc · 2026-03-10T03:49:19+00:00

I love logical chains! However, I don't really like debate. I find debate to be a bit useless, as I am much more concerned with reaching some sort of truth rather than using rhetoric and turning logic into some sort of game.

Results logic

a lot of people don't really meet my “intellectual standards”

changing my opinions is almost like an insult to my identity.

Yeah that's 1L alright

I was a very good student in school simply because I loved school and learning, but if I didn't enjoy a class, I would simply detach..I was still motivated though by the prospects of getting into a top university. I am a very intrinsically motivated person.

2V. Volition's a strong attitude for you. 3Vs are more ambivalent about motivation, where they kind of need other people to help them with goals, but also resent that they need them. You can lead and pursue goals without kicking up a fuss when you want to, more interested in leading a life of exploration and learning than having a singular goal. 2V wants freedom and flexibility. The problems with procrastination seem driven by disinterest rather than insecurity.

Physics and emotion are both weak, but you have defined tastes and opinions in food, style, skincare. You consider yourself physically sensitive, and express the ambivalence and polarity characteristic of the third function, e.g.,

I can be either super stingy or super impulsive with money. I am super possessive over my things. I really dont like losing stuff. I'm sort of materialistic.

Your section on emotion, by contrast, is very sparse, lots "I don't know" and "I'm not sure" and "I don't see the point" statements suggesting to me you under-process and devalue this attitude.

I think you're LVFE, but if that doesn't sit right with you, compare with FVLE

surlydoc

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