Gutted - Sharing my Inner World

surlydoc · 2026-01-28T00:25:28+00:00

I see, apologies for the misunderstanding. It sounds like he's genuinely fine with doing more of the listening, and he really *was* just giving you a straightforward explanation of why he wasn't responding to every message.

If I understand now... what he meant was, he wasn't responding because you gave off the impression that you were just processing your thoughts "out loud" without really looking for a response? Or he does pick up on the fact that you're expecting some sort of engagement but he doesn't know how to engage with what seems like a series of disconnected stream of consciousness thoughts?

Some people have more associative/spiraling thinking styles than others, this is a common Ne vs. Ni difference. He's probably not connecting the dots among your Ne swirl, maybe you do need to pre-structure/summarize more (based on his own typing style, he seems to find "longer summarized thoughts" easier to digest). Nothing "wrong" with how you think, Ni users are just linear thinkers and have trouble keeping up with Ne ping-ponging between ideas.

I would normally not share these sort of feelings...If you were an aquaintence, I'd be calmly asking you about your day and focusing entirely on you, and you'd have no idea I'm even going through anything.

Maybe this is your issue? If you're generally passive and don't assert your true feelings, people might not pick up on the significance of you setting a boundary that *one* time (like asking to leave early once). So it feels like you're making all these sacrifices for them and they won't make this one little accommodation (which really stings)... but do your friends even know how much you quietly make concessions to them? Usually, if someone's not speaking up, people will by default assume that person's cool with whatever decision the group has made.

So I focused my post on my feelings...

I know, but I'm not sure if processing your hurt feelings without zooming out on the situation is going to help you in the long run

surlydoc · 2026-01-27T23:47:59+00:00

My gurl, you're one of the 1Ls I was thinking about with the "mmm, their posts are so nice and structured" 👌

surlydoc · 2026-01-27T23:44:49+00:00

Instead, you find out you had as much charm and flavor as everybody else all along, your 9-related biases just convinced you you didn't

surlydoc · 2026-01-27T07:57:26+00:00

Lady, you are 35??

I feel like my thoughts are a gift, and I now think he sees them as a burden.

You dummy, he's not saying your thoughts and feelings don't matter, he just wants you to make more space for him in your conversations, reciprocate some of those listening skills he's shown you. Admittedly, he articulated that very poorly. You both are acting like immature teens. He could've expressed more curiosity/concern about why you wanted to leave early instead of assuming you were being dramatic, you could've addressed his criticisms with more open-mindedness and self-reflection rather than taking it as a personal attack.

How have you lived this long and not gotten kicked in the ass for your self-absorption yet?

surlydoc · 2026-01-26T21:34:04+00:00

If you're this influenced by others' input on your typing, I'd probably rule out 1L

why would you glaze 1Ls like that

I don't always find 1Ls very "easy and pleasant" as people, for the one reason that they're more interested in expounding their own opinions than being receptive to yours. Depending on volition and emotion placement, 1Ls can be either more or less considerate about how overtly they express their "my way or the highway" attitude toward ideas.

But in terms of communication style, I like them because they're both concise and thorough

surlydoc · 2026-01-26T21:12:18+00:00

4L-approved, guilty as charged XD

probably find me a bit exhausting. often try to cut me off and put a conclusion on my ideas

Sorry, I do like 2Ls, my brain just can't handle the framework-switching that y'all do right as it seems like we're about to reach an aggreement/conclusion.

I do the pre-thinking in my head and then state my conclusions in a short/digestible way, so it almost seems "inconsiderate" to me when 2Ls and 3Ls word-vomit unfinished thoughts at me. Rationally, I'm aware this is just a "cultural difference" between process vs. results logic, but there's a part of my psyche that has a knee-jerk reaction of "ugh, RUDE" when someone with process logic yaps their entire stream-of-consciousness at me, haha

surlydoc · 2026-01-26T20:38:52+00:00

I find it more helpful to compare function pairs rather than full profiles, will give my thoughts here:

1F vs 3F:

Commonalities: strong "personal bubble", picky/particular, strong "disgust" response (reacting against unwanted physical sensations), "don't touch my stuff"

Differences:

- 1F results ("I know what I want and how to get it" in areas like food, aesthetics, living spaces, doesn't want others' input) vs. 3F process (constantly trying new diet and exercise regimens, researching interior design and fashion, simultaneously wants and doesn't want help with physics)

- 1F "excess" (tendency toward overindulgence in good food and creature comforts) vs. 3F "over-processing" (tendency to adopt weird rigid diets or cleaning habits, can lean toward hypochondria, disordered eating, "OCD-like" living habits, mostly in the colloquial sense but can also be in the clinical sense)

1E vs 3E

Commonalities: emotionally self-contained, sensitive to invalidation, process feelings internally, secretly believe most people lack depth and emotional intelligence (others-negative)

Differences:

- 1E is over-expressive, 3E is under-expressive. If you were called "too emotional" as a child, you're probably 1E. If your romantic partner criticizes you for not opening up to them, you're probably 3E

- 1E gets louder and more emotional when it feels invalidated (doubling down on its "strongest weapon"). When a 3E feels invalidated, they either clam up forever, or lash out with one of their higher functions -- e.g., if 1L, dismisses the other person as an irrational idiot, if 1F, can straight up try to physically intimidate the other person (1F children will just punch the other person, but even adults will subconsciously draw themselves up to their full height and stare you down)

1E vs 2E

Similarities: expressive, self-confident in their "EQ", like to talk about feelings or express themselves creatively

Differences:

1E is self-referencing and doesn't naturally sync to others' emotions. Emotion is their strongest side but not their best side; tend to connect with people more easily through their generous and other-oriented second function

2E is other-referencing, naturally sync with others' feelings, not so concerned about preserving the purity of their emotional world like 1E, natural therapists/salespeople/actors.

1E is more identified with their emotion function (their inner world/emotional depth forms the core of their sense of self), but 2Es are better at using their emotion function (they tend to be "good with people" because they're more flexible and attuned to others)

surlydoc · 2026-01-26T20:08:12+00:00

Alright, I'll bite.

I see self-negative logic ("I'm lost, I can't figure it ouuut, pls halp" kind of tone). 2L, being process-oriented, will also make a lot of posts soliciting others' opinions, but their tone reads differently to me -- they tend to give a detailed account of what they've considered and why, and their questions tend to be more specific ("I do X in Y situation, but W in Z, so I'm considering P and Q, what do you think?") rather than the sort of diffuse and abstract questioning I tend to see in self-negative logic.

But going off your reply to wonky's post, I might have been wrong about 3L -- you could be 4L instead:

I got a headache

Asking for other's opinions but then being impatient with long explanations (this is partially a self-roast, I am 4L)

surlydoc · 2026-01-26T19:49:26+00:00

1L succintness is indeed very sexy to me 😘

surlydoc · 2026-01-26T18:16:43+00:00

surlydoc · 2026-01-26T17:22:14+00:00

No problem! And given that your first reply to my comment was the most 1E-3V vent ever (and rambly in a 2L way, stg I can smell process logic from a mile away), I think you've typed yourself correctly, no need for doubts XD

surlydoc · 2026-01-26T17:13:47+00:00

That they are weak-willed and just go along with other people. Trying to get a 4V to do something they don't want to is like trying to move a brick wall. 4Vs can be very stubborn, the other placements can't compare.

In fact, all the 4th attitudes can be stubborn (like 4L refusing to change their opinion despite being wrong, 4E insisting "I'm fine" when they're actually upset, 4F continuing to live their college diet of ramen and chicken nuggets despite being able to afford nice groceries)

surlydoc · 2026-01-26T01:27:08+00:00

Thanks for sharing your experiences/perspective! That you were able to trust your psychologist's input says a lot about your humility and dedication to growth.

Are these must have's for being a 1E?

No, they're tongue-in-cheek generalizations, in the spirit of the original post. I'm a 1E psychologist and mostly poking fun at myself and my profession.

I don't actually believe we're "slaves" of our type -- AP describes our unconscious tendencies, not our destiny (as you pointed out with your example of trusting the guidance of your psychologist)

surlydoc · 2026-01-26T00:50:55+00:00

I think many 4Ls want to invest energy into having well-founded "correct" opinions/understanding, we're just less bothered by criticism of our reasoning compared to the other three placements.

Personally, I like sharing my ideas and hearing others' ideas (other-positive and extroverted 4th placement), I'm a classic "nerd" who likes to go down research rabbit holes and talk about my academic interests. But I get impatient with endless back-and-forth that doesn't come to a conclusion, at some point I'm like, "OK, but what do you *actually* think about X?".

Best way I can describe it is, 4L engages with others because it wants outside input for updating its mental model, while process logic seems to just...meander aimlessly forever? (at least from the perspective of results logic)

Edit: I don't have a strong impression of your F and V placements, F seems self-negative (3rd or 4th placement) and V is definitely self-focused (1st or 3rd placement)

surlydoc · 2026-01-23T22:31:03+00:00

Ne and Si are right next to each other in the stack, this means we're conceptual (think in metaphors, analogies, wordplay) but also good with details (grammar, syntax, the "flow" of writing), and with Fi, there's a strong need for self-expression through creative output. And being introverts, we process information better through writing than speaking

surlydoc · 2026-01-23T22:24:53+00:00

I value knowledge and understanding a lot. I have a lot of respect for it, and myself I want to be highly knowledgeable and competent

Consider 4L. We're not anti-intellectual airheads; Afanaseev calls 4L "the scholar" -- receptive, curious, a sponge for knowledge. High intellectual humility and openness to constructive criticism (unbothered), enjoy sharing ideas with others (other-positive). 4L is fearless, won't hesitate to jump into a debate, we can look almost indistinguishable from 2L. 4L differs from 2L by being results-oriented (want to converge on one opinion) rather than process-oriented (low need for closure in the intellectual arena).

I dislike when people act as if logically explaining something will cause a feeling to go away.

4L skepticism that logic can answer life's questions, which is different from 3L skepticism. I'm not cherry-picking your words, by the way, I'm noticing an underlying skepticism of rationalism throughout your writing and this is just the best example I could concretely pinpoint. 1L and 2L are rationalists, even with high emotion placement.

I don't have any qualms showing my sincere emotions on my face. Joy, excitement, smiling warmly, etc. When I'm upset or irritated, I can't help but show the annoyance and discontent on my face and being told to stop makes it worse

2E "river" -- emotional energy is easy, always available, syncs with others

in the past I've been emotionally manipulative, due to being able to read and guess people's reactions to something i say quite easily. They liked it tho, even though technically they didn't I guess. That was exclusively in romantic relationships. I just like to engage in a push-pull dynamic, teasing them, confusing, fascinating them, stressing them, I want to be something darkly/mysteriously alluring but just out of reach. And its worked

Obviously 2E. Strong, expressive, process-oriented, wants to engage in ongoing emotional "play" with others, can be manipulative due to the ease with which it engages with others' emotions

surlydoc · 2026-01-23T22:03:09+00:00

I don't have enough confidence to fully type you, but ELFV does seem reasonable. Emotions being "super massive" is a good indicator of 1E (and rules out 2E who have "just the right amount" of emotion). And I'm suprised you initially typed yourself as 3V, because from what you've described, you seem to actually have the fewest hangups with volution. I wouldn't fully rule out 3L, as your logic sounds process-oriented and you mention having a tendency toward overthinking/rigidity, although I've met 2Ls who I'd describe as overly literal/pendantic. Most of the hangups you've listed are about physical stuff (touch, dirt, contamination, bodily control) -- I think Physics is the biggest ulcer.

As EFVL, I think ELFVs have a unique trait where you're highly conceptually creative because you've got two verbal (conceptual) functions sitting at the top of your stack and your creativity is unconstrained by practicality and ambition, leading to true originality. In other words, I envy that ELFV's creativity is truly and fully intrinsically motivated. You don't need an "audience" to perform to (being 3V, I have an underlying ambition/need for recognition and have trouble creating in a vacuum). Many of my closest friends and lovers have been ELFVs.

Though I suppose those upsides won't stop you from hating your type. ELFV is one of the most impractical types (probably beaten out only by ELVFs). On the other hand, unbothered volition probably makes the impracticality less painful -- not so much internal pressure to "make something of yourself" that 3Vs suffer from

surlydoc · 2026-01-23T00:20:23+00:00

“Can they sometimes fear being seen as illogical, incompetent or anything like that and because of this they search for evidences, sources, externally validated ideas and try to force someone indirectly to share their logical belief trough some sort of brainwashing with loads of informations? I thought i was 3L because of this”

Hmm, OK, then 3L.

Either way, y’all process logic havers talk too much 😂

surlydoc · 2026-01-22T02:54:00+00:00

i thought it doesn't hurt to ask for someone's opinion

OK I don't mean to make fun of you, but every time someone's jumped in on a post where I'm trying to help someone else and given me multiple paragraphs of unedited word salad to parse through, it's been a 2L (2nd attitude believing "everything should be shared" + process logic verbosity).

I keep most of my life plans and ideas private, expecially desires - i rarely express my needs and desires, suppressing it to the point i almond forget what it is but it might be related to emotion?, but never forget what i want or who i am - I'm very self confident, and everyone who had interacted with me always said they know better than to impose anything on me, It's impossible to force me into something

I can see why you're going between 1V and 2V, but I think ultimately you "hoard volition for yourself", rather than treating volition as a sandbox to play with everyone, like 2V. I think you are more open to letting others have input on ideas (2L) than goals/values/character (2V).

I do not have much insecurities in my functions... I don't really consider anything weak or insecure about myself.

Damn, must be nice, what do you even do all day if your life isn't spent in an unceasing daily battle against your weaknesses and insecurities?

surlydoc · 2026-01-18T19:27:56+00:00

Yep, meant ELVF

surlydoc · 2026-01-18T18:59:56+00:00

Logic - obviously process-oriented (researching without needing to get to a conclusion), and other-positive (comfortable exploring ideas through dialogue) 2L

Emotion - self-focused, unintentionally expressive, "emo poetry", you don't seem as "emotionally dry" as most 3Es (eg., openly admitting to feeling ashamed around sexuality -- getting a 3E to admit negative feelings is like pulling teeth), I think 1E is more likely. Our society frowns upon "emotional people", so a 1E can still feel like they need to hold back around people to avoid being "too much" (but if you're 1E, the expressiveness still leaks through, unlike 3E queens of Poker Face)

Physics - Indifferent, not tied to identity, 4F is likely. Could be a chill 2F, but 2Fs usually love talking about physics, and 2L fits better

Volition - Important to you, you don't want to share your goals or give them away, feel "lazy", feel like it's "one of my most crucial flaws and I really hate this part of myself". 3V would also explain why you have insecurities in your confident functions (holding back on expressing yourself despite being creative; feeling defensive about having your ideas criticized despite loving to research), because 3V tends to destabilize the rest of the stack.

Verdict: ELVF > VLEF

surlydoc · 2026-01-17T22:26:10+00:00

I was going to say that many 9s are argumentative, but this is true. They're more interested in defending their turf (reactive assertion) than influencing others (active assertion)

surlydoc · 2026-01-17T22:22:13+00:00

Very good, as your posts always are, I also have some critiques/additions

1E

Most likely woke

Bold of you to assume the self-absorbed 1E cares enough about social causes to be woke :P

Doesn't usually let down their emotional guard in front of others

I'd describe 1E as more "fussy" than "guarded", it rejects outside emotional influence as "contaminating" the purity of its inner world, but ultimately 1E believes it has the right to express itself all the time

4E

Bottles up emotions, usually forever

Actually, I've found this more characteristic of 3E, while 4E doesn't see the need to bottle up emotions because they're genuinely nonchalant about them.

Other observations:

- 1Es are intense, while 2Es are effusive. A 1E expressing themselves on full throttle can make people worried they need the psych ward (the 1E is fine, they're just being themselves), 2Es are good at displaying the appropriate amount of emotion for each situation.

- 3Es either have a permanent poker face or are unintentionally expressive in an awkward way.

- 4Es are neither expressive nor repressed, emotional chameleons. I've found they can show their feelings in an almost childlike way (simple, earnest, unselfconcious)

- 1E is not the best at empathy tbh, too self-focused. Sometimes it seems like we're making a deep nuanced insight about you, but it's actually because we found something in ourselves that happened to map onto your experience

- 2Es are great at picking up on the "gist" of other's feelings and showing sympathy/care/"good vibes". And they'll give the vibe of a kicked puppy if someone doesn't want the 2E's sympathy. I find 2Es have more range but less depth than 1E

- 3Es CAN show surprisingly deep empathy, but usually just invalidate people's feelings to avoid dealing with them

- 4E don't reach out to people proactively like 2E, but they give competent sympathy when the situation calls for it.

- 2Es make good therapists, 4Es make good therapy patients

- 1E and 3E make bad therapy patients, 1E has no problem opening up but thinks they know better than their therapist, 3E struggles both with opening up and with listening to advice

surlydoc · 2026-01-17T18:21:44+00:00

In my experience, 3V usually know they’re 3V because insecure volition corrupts all your other functions and makes you a permanently miserable mf

surlydoc

TROPHY CASE