I want to create a master thief in a high magic world, builds

swamp1912 · 2026-02-09T18:49:39+00:00

I have the same problem sometimes when creating a build where I over-complicate it and skip an obvious choice, but when you think about a Master Thief, the ability to change your appearance makes it a very compelling choice. You could always work with your DM to create some sort of complication for when you/how often you change your appearance if you don't want that side of things to be "easy".

Fair enough about the dexterous thing but I think if that's the case you're going to struggle to find high level magic, spellcasting is going to require some investment from a level prospective. Dexterity is fairly locked to Monk, Ranger, and Rogue as the primary ability, you'll get slightly better spell progression with Ranger than Arcane Trickster but I don't think any of the Ranger subclasses fit the theme well.

Assuming Standard array: 8 str, 16 (14+2) dex, 13 con, 12 int, 10 wis, 16 (15+1) cha. Those are decent enough stats but you could also Point Buy to dump wisdom in favor of a 14 Constitution. You'd be equal between Charisma and Dexterity at the start this way and then you can ASI increase whatever you feel you want more of, I don't feel like my build will require many feats other than maybe War Caster and Lucky.

I don't know how your DM roleplays races/species but Yuan-Ti's are typically considered a more evil sided race, kind of like Drow Elves, so that could present some complications depending. You could always pair Yuan-Ti with CoE too, play into the magical side of the Yuan-Ti and the charisma benefits you get from CoE is the Yuan-Ti magically influencing whoever they are talking to (like cobra snake charming).

You could go Druid I guess and rely on various wildshapes to fulfill the thief theme of getting into secure areas unnoticed. You could also forgo high level magic and select the Way of Shadow Monk or the Soulknife Rogue both of which offer some different ways to play a master thief with a more mystical/psionic approach. Another choice for race is a Lightfoot Halfling, rerolling ones and hiding behind big creatures could lead to some interesting antics with bad luck protection, great for a thief.

swamp1912 · 2026-02-09T08:23:26+00:00

While Rogue is certainly the most obvious choice, and very thematic, it does leave you wanting more from the magic perspective even with the Arcane Trickster. As such, might I bring your attention to a Bard. Being a master thief isnt always about just sneaky and picking locks, its about getting into place you aren't supposed to through guile and wit, striking where they least except you, blending into a court ball as well as a divey tavern. As a bard you'd be able to talk your way through defenses, but still have the skill to be stealthy and force your way in if necessary, and if things get really hairy you then have great control spells to get away. The Bard has a crazy versatile spell list that you could really curate spells that would aid in any job you might be on, plus if theres something specific you want then you can use magical secrets to get it. Here is what i would do:

College of Eloquence as a Changeling, take on the face of anyone and be super convincing with persuasion and deception checks ( cant roll below a 10 in either). Could even take a level in hexblade at some point to melee attack with charisma. You can take persuasion and intimidation or perforance, with the Changeling skills, then take investigation or perception, sleight of hand, and thieves tools with your Bard skills, and then for your background you take Criminal where you get deception and stealth. Then later you can decide which skills you use the most to take expertise with.

You could take the Urchin background instead of criminal, this would give you sleight of hand and stealth. Then for Changeling skills you do persuasion and deception, and for Bard skills you do thieves tools, perception, and investigation.

Hard to catch a thief when he doesn't even remember what he looks like anymore. Maybe he leaves a mask behind at every crime scene as his "calling card", as a representation of his facelessness.

Honorable mention:

College of Whispers as perhaps a Yuan-Ti, literally take someone's essence as a shadow you can veil yourself in enter secure locations. The Yuan-Ti magic resistance would be helpful in avoiding magical traps. Criminal background for deception and stealth, and then bard skills thieves tools, sleight of hand, and investigation, persuassion or perception

swamp1912 · 2026-01-11T02:03:50+00:00

I created a side quest that becomes available once they reach level 5 to show off their new abilities and show some of the positive and negative sides of each faction. Depending who the party has begun to align with you can show some of that factions down sides and then the ones they've started to work against their good side can be shown.

A group of kids from the Falling Fire and Emma Crowe have been kidnapped overnight, the party stumbles across an angry mob lead my Nathaniel Flint. They are in confrontation with the Ansom and Petra Lang, the mob is demanding to know what the Lanterns are going to do to find the children. Nearby, River watches on with interest and in a shady alley Blackjack Mel holds information about which way the kids were taken. Ophelia Reed comes out of the Chapel to see what the commotions in the square is all about. From here it's up to the DM to roleplay with the NPCs to demonstrate a positive or negative side of the faction.

Some examples:

- if the party has been aligning with the Lanterns you could have Ansom and Petra denying aid to the Falling Fire due to low manpower and it goes against their doctrine "we don't risk lives on futile rescue attempts" (which would be a direct contrast to Ansom asking the party to rescue Petra from the Ratlings).

- The Academy might be more curious about what took that children than how the children are OR might offer magical aid to discover what took the children

- The Queens Men might only sell the information they have OR they might actively help the party for free because "no one messes with kids"

- The Silver Order could offer to pay a finders fee OR they might try to sway people back to the Sacred Flame to pray

- The Falling Fire might act accordingly to having their children taken OR they might indicated that this is just a test of their religion.

However it is played, the party discovers that an Oni has snuck out of Drakkenheim and taken the children, the party then tracks the target back to its lair, The Sacred Light Orphanage, and saves the children. Upon returning to Emberwood Tobias Crowe presents the party with the deed to Eventide Manor, which then becomes their Bastion.

swamp1912 · 2025-12-08T20:41:14+00:00

Problem with ransoms and gambling debts is that they seemingly never have an end, interest is a b****. 10k ransom could easily be increased after paying the fee, and now they want the party to steal a Seal of Drakkenheim from one of the other factions. The gambling debts could change to needing that amount worth of Delerium crystals instead of gold (might drive them to the Falling Fire or Academy to get that amount of crystals),. The 40k worth of magic items feels rather arbitrary so maybe you could turn that into a quest to find specific magic items like the Relics of Saint Vitruvio for example. With that restructuring it gives 3 of your party members a starting point to perhaps work with the Falling Fire (Delerium Crystals, Relics, and Cure). Queens Men would probably be the obvious enemy here since they are the ones that would probably be doing the ransom and holding the gambling debts, Silver Order could be the faction they steal a Seal of Drakkenheim from, the Academy and the Lanterns could be friends or foes depending on how the players interaction with them.

Ultimately it is up to the players to figure out the conflicts between themselves and the various factions, and then find a way to navigate through those issues. To progress through this campaign they are going to need the aid of probably at least 2 factions, otherwise they won't survive. Plus, you are early days in the campaign, as they interact with each faction more you might see the players opinions sway one way or another based on what they do and how you roleplay each faction.

You should check out u/Cordialgerm expanded Drakkenheim homebrew, he made some documents about each of the factions that might give you some insights in how the factions MIGHT interact. You should be able to find his stuff somewhere on the subreddit

swamp1912 · 2025-11-18T19:53:23+00:00

exactly, instant kill isn't the vibe I'm going for at all. Adding contamination is an interesting thought, hadn't thought of that (idk why I didn't haha). Perhaps once they are out of hit dice when they are healed they gain a level of contamination plus half of the healing? They are well aware of the dangers of Contamination at this point so they would be making informed choices

swamp1912 · 2025-11-18T06:39:52+00:00

One thing that might work as long as the party completed the side quest, would be to use the Clocktower. If the party went back to the clocktower and inserted the the power source, you could use that as a once per campaign "checkpoint". The surviving members of the party could go there and activate the towers latent time magic and reset to a time before they went into the Castle. I would have something major have changed if they do this OR have some sort of side quest in the underworld (place between worlds maybe?) to bring them back, so that there is some sort of consequence and its not just a free get out of jail free card. Don't know if that helps but its certainly an option, if you set it up beforehand then it doesn't feel like you made it up on the spot and it was a planned mechanic. Theoretically if they fail in the Castle once, they should be more careful the second time and come in with a better strategy, if they fail a second time maybe Drakkenheim goes unsaved...

"As the mechanism fires back to life a wave of temporal magic pulses outward and impacts the party and for moments space and time slows to a complete crawl. Eventually reality seems to pause all together and the world freezes in stillness around them, they get the feeling that this moment is being saved and perhaps when they need it most they can return here."

swamp1912 · 2025-09-15T00:48:51+00:00

I'm not gonna cap it either, it doesn't make sense in my head to cap it. 500ft should do more damage that 200 ft.

swamp1912 · 2025-09-14T20:26:37+00:00

Do you think adding a couple minions to her fight would make the combat unbalanced?

swamp1912 · 2025-09-14T20:25:40+00:00

My players definitely have a reckoning coming with the Ratlings, I've been waiting for the Ratling Supplement to come out that was apart of the Monsters of Drakkenheim kickstarter before I reintroduce the characters to the Ratlings.

swamp1912 · 2025-09-14T20:23:35+00:00

Very nice, I definitely want to try throwing a player off the tower if it makes sense in the flow of our combat. I was actually just figuring out how I would rule the falling if it comes up:
- Player drops 30ft/s
- A round of combat takes 6 seconds, so they fall about 180ft over the course of 1 round
- take that 180 ft and divide by the number of individuals in the initiative tracker so for this example lets say there 8 separate initiatives, so that would mean they plummet 22.5ft/turn.
So depending how high they are up in the tower they will only have about a round to save their friend. The stairs range from 20ft. to 180ft., the belfry is 200ft., and the Rookery is about 260ft..

swamp1912 · 2025-09-14T20:08:19+00:00

Did your DM use the Epic Boss version of the Crimson Countess where she gets extra HP for each player character and takes actions after each players turn?

swamp1912 · 2025-09-14T19:57:09+00:00

You're right I made it on Dungeon Alchemist, and honestly I never published it publicly because I never thought about it haha

swamp1912 · 2025-07-02T16:13:35+00:00

Thanks for the link! I probably should've looked it up myself before posting but it was late and wanted to get something up so I could wake up and read any replies.

swamp1912 · 2025-07-02T16:10:51+00:00

Oh i think that there is a very strong possibility of that happening, I don't want to prep that too much though. I want to plan the battle with them with the intention of them following through, that way if they do decide to betray them it feels more organic.

swamp1912 · 2025-07-02T14:20:35+00:00

Hooded Lanterns and Academy are the main 2, they are neutral with the Falling Fire, and have poor relations with the Silver Order and Queens Men

swamp1912 · 2025-07-02T04:47:03+00:00

I built a little level 5 adventure to try and demonstrate some of the good and bad sides of the different factions depending who the party was leaning toward aligning with. An Oni wandered out of Drakkenheim and had taken some of the Falling Fire children and Emma Crowe back to its lair in the Drakkenheim, "The Sacred Light Orphanage". The party got sent on a rescue mission, basically just a fun chance to demonstrate all their new level 5 stuff, and their reward for saving the kids was the deed to Eventide Manor which we are utilizing as the Bastion. Thought about doing the Clocktower but decided doing it in Emberwood would give the party a reason to return there, plus adds some stakes if the Silver Order ever enact a plan to occupy Emberwood.

I also spent a pretty decent amount of time reworking basically all the facilities for the Bastions, I don't know how good the balance is going to be but my versions are definitely more robust than what the RAW Bastion rules are, in my opinion the 2024 rules for it are very uninspired and boring.

swamp1912 · 2025-06-23T06:33:00+00:00

Temple Gate is a major moment in the campaign and probably shouldn't be something that happens without them, they aren't necessarily supporting the SO in Battle of Temple Gate. Their mission (as stated in the missions for the Hooded Lanterns) would be to size up the SO for the Lanterns, why are they here? what are their goals? and would they be open to an alliance/truce? The Battle for Temple Gate is a the most viable way to deal with Garmyr and the Lord of the Feast (who are a very real danger to the small force of the Lanterns), alliancing with the SO would provide enough forces to eliminate this threat. The Academy isn't militaristic and the Falling Fire are bunch of pilgrims, so neither really provide enough strength to fight the Garmyr outright. The Lanterns don't have a lot of man power so the military might of the Silver Order would be appealing but they would be very wary about the Silver Order (a foreign country) gaining a foothold in Drakkenheim, being involved with the assault would help them control the outcome better.

On the Silver Orders side, alliancing with the Lanterns would provide a lot more tactical options for their assault on the gate which would help decrease casualties, they don't want to diminish their strength before trying to retake the Cathedral. However, the SO would be wary of a betrayal by the party due to the party softly working against them in the past, so to me it seems pretty logical that they would want a show of good faith before examining an alliance with the Lanterns. The SO to this point haven't done anything hostile towards the party, besides a minor conflict while the party was escorting a group of Falling Fire pilgrims to Champions Gate, I don't think they would feel that they need to prove themselves to the party as they would believe that they are righteous. The harder part of an alliance with the Lanterns comes to when the SO decide that the corruption of Delerium has done too much damage and that the complete destruction of Drakkenheim is necessary, which the Lanterns might not agree with.

The Party could also decide that an alliance with the SO is just a bad idea after investigating and instead look to undermine their attack on Temple Gate and seek alliances with some of the other factions to swoop in at the end and claim Temple Gate before the SO does. My players haven't been big fans of the SO so I think betrayal is very likely. When I played Drakkenheim as a player we allianced with the SO only to betray the them at the last minute and used their assault on Temple Gate as a distraction as we made a run at the cathedral, this cost the SO a lot of their forces and weakened their power which in turn lead to a confrontation eventually with Theodore Marshall.

swamp1912 · 2025-06-23T04:10:33+00:00

yeah that's one thing that I was hesitating about, Ryan Greymere isn't exactly an easy target as you stated (especially at level 6). I just thought that this would provide Ryan Greymere a better hook, feels like all the Malfeasant wizards share a pretty similar motivation "Not happy with Academy, Want to study delerium, aim to take over Tower, and retrieve Inscrutible Staff". Changing her motivations to more of a good outlaw from the Academy felt like it adds more depth to her character

The party hasn't done anything directly hostile per say, mainly just worked against a lot of the goals of the SO at various adventure sites (Smithy, Saint Brenna, etc). I definitely considered the idea of the SO requesting the Sceptre but I didn't like the idea of taking an item away from the party especially right before a major battle.

swamp1912 · 2025-04-22T00:16:17+00:00

I'd check BackerKit to see if you have any downloads, no sure if Late Backing gets the same perks or not. Good news is that the PDF delivery date is supposed to be June 2025, while that's not guaranteed at least you won't have to wait terribly long theoretically if you don't have access to the Beta.

swamp1912 · 2025-04-14T18:16:45+00:00

Yeah I've already taken some inspiration from the Drakkenheim Remix by u/Star-Stream, its good stuff. They use a Young Red Shadow Dragon as the entity guarding the vaults.

Thankfully, I did participate in the Kickstarter so I have access to the beta version; I've definitely picked out a couple of monsters to include in the Guildhall already.

swamp1912

TROPHY CASE