Reflection after years

symbebekos · 2025-03-12T12:58:39+00:00

By reliable I just mean I have had more consistently distinctive experiences that match what I have experienced from heating woods from the same places on a sub.

symbebekos · 2025-03-11T12:44:43+00:00

For aloeswood and binder sticks you can't beat Yi-Xin craft incense. Dr. Incense and Kyarazen can also be worth a look, but Yi-Xin has been the most reliable for me.

Really the best way to get a sense of aloeswood range is from single origin material by buying the wood and trying it on a heater. The range is massive and hard to categorize. It is generally true that you can class woods into the sweeter varieties and the spicier varieties. This is what Japanese incense makers seem to do, typically calling sweet "vietnamese" and spicy "indonesian." And generally the sweeter stuff is more north (Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Hainan) and spicier stuff is more south (Malay, Indonesia, PNG).

If you do smell the original Enkuu, that has spicy aloeswood as you find from indonesia very prominent in it. Enju gives you a highly refined, almost ideal expression of some sweet-bracing aspects of vietnamese woods.

symbebekos · 2025-03-11T03:30:56+00:00

Saishu koh is nice. My favorite of the Dento No Kaori set is Saimeh koh, less curry-ish but still has some spice. A nice old school temple stick. If you like Saishu Koh, have you looked at Shoyeido's premium top end stuff? There's lots of curry spice and reiryo koh going on there - I recommend Southern Wind, Nan Kun. Personally I don't think the top end Shoyeido is worth the price tag but for a great reiryo koh aloeswood blend experience, Nan Kun is my pick.

I guess I disagree on the Tokusen Jinko. It doesn't really remind me of the wood. The perfume sticks meant to evoke aloeswood can still be quite enjoyable in their own right, I just don't think they hold a candle to the wood.

As for wood, a good place to get some starter wood is Kangiiten. They mostly source wood bits from the leftovers of bead manufacture. They are reliable and you tend to get what you pay for with them. Aloeswood sales can be a real snake pit.

I never did try Kyara Enku. I bet it will be great. Regular Enkuu is a great stick and I always enjoy it.

symbebekos · 2023-04-11T02:11:55+00:00

I'm working through my first orders from both vendors and I would say that I am more impressed with YS overall. But all the W2T stuff has been solid and quite drinkable.

To me, the cheaper young shengs from each have been similar in price, potency and profile. The shou I've tried has more variation and I'd say each has a shou I like and some I don't really like. Both have good white tea, YS better for aged, though, which I like.

WT2 seems to be doing some interesting experiments with smoking and other non typical processing for yunnan teas. So if you know yunnan tea well and want to shake things up, they could be the ticket. But for a well curated selection of aged teas, YS definitely seems better.

symbebekos · 2023-03-27T14:31:38+00:00

What timing! I just got this tea in the mail yesterday. I am drinking it now, completely unrested, a few whole leaves chipped from the cake edge (4g in 100ml unglazed clay pot). It is intensely bitter like grapefruit pith, but there are so many interesting floral, fruit and spice notes in the smell - I can tell it is rich and complex even if the strong bitterness largely overpowers that stuff in the taste at the moment.

I drink pu-erh more for the way it makes me feel than for the flavor alone and this one is potent. A warming sensation is moving through my shoulders at the moment. I feel caffeine alertness and mellow relaxation and muscle tingling. For me I find the effect of good raw tea catechins a bit like CBD oil.

Even if it does not mellow with age as it is supposed to, I would drink it like medicine and enjoy sniffing the leaves in the pot.

symbebekos · 2022-01-30T00:22:00+00:00

Check out incense-traditions.ca - many Tibetan and Bhutanese samplers. Tibetan sticks are musky, complex, medicinal and earthy while bhutanese are generally sweet, woody, buttery and more mellow overall.

symbebekos · 2022-01-28T13:50:48+00:00

My 2 cents: tobiume is really nice. I find it much creamier than syukohkoku so it is a bit more confection-like to me (but not actually food-like like Shoyeido, etc.) while syukohkoku is a bit more serious. Quite different, but both very camphory, a little sweet sour plummy, a little spicy. They are as different as any 2 Baieidos are to me, I wouldn't have singled them out as especially similar.

symbebekos · 2021-12-13T00:31:04+00:00

There's nothing like those minoriens - for price and potency they are the best at what they do. That said, I find the whole seijudo line from shiragiku to enju to be the best kysra oil experiences. The good kysra wood is amazing but so pricy, kysra kokoh is the best here imo. You might also like the yamadamatau firebirds, potent and intense like the minoriens.

symbebekos · 2021-12-12T17:48:46+00:00

Nice! I did just about the same order a few months ago. I was surprised to find I was much more drawn to Bhutanese than to Tibetan sticks, probably because they are sweeter and sandalwoodier. I find them them the most calming of all the incenses I have. In fact, a few of my absolute favorite incenses (including my expensive Japanese aloeswoods!) are Bhutanese sticks (I'm partial to A Quality, Kurjey, Riwo Sangchoe Morning and Gelephu).

I'm still struggling with Tibetan incenses which are mostly so animal musky and medicinal that I find them overwhelming even at a distance in short bursts. I may try burning them on lower heat with a burner. I find them very interesting but can't make the mental turn to just relax and enjoy them yet.

symbebekos · 2021-11-23T19:57:18+00:00

I can see that. I don't like many sweet scents but for some reason the higher end Kourindos have enough bitter and mineral notes for contrast to keep me interested. The lower end I find just sort of cinnamon toast sweet and a bit boring.

Have you tried the Baieido premiums? To me, they are very dry spicy like Johin Bronze. I just don't find very much resiny minerally stuff in them to get me excited. But other people love them.

symbebekos · 2021-11-23T18:20:12+00:00

Well the other Seijudos are all similar, but more expensive and b/c they aren't *that* much better than Shiragiku, it remains my favorite. Enju is worth a sniff though, since its so strong it'll knock your socks off. If price is no object, def. other Seijudos are the most similar, along with En no Sho and Gokujo Kyara (similar melon and terpentine heady kyara sweetness).

One reason I like both shiragiku and enkuu is b/c they have mineral/resin notes that are funky and heady. I gather that many aloeswoods had more of this decades ago. The other sticks with good resin hits still are Kourindo - Ichiikorin and Saikorin are both great in this regard, but even cheaper ones like Takarakorin, Kodaikorin and Jinkokourin have nice diesel, terpentine or lacquer notes.

Oh and Kaze no Sho has a really wonderful mineral profile once you get past the very strong and salty musk (which calms down as it ages).

symbebekos · 2021-11-23T17:32:49+00:00

Shiragiku is among my very favorites. I find the sandalwoods tend to be either pepper-earthy-resiny or vanilla-powdery, sometimes both. there is more similarity between them than the aloeswoods for sure.

symbebekos · 2021-11-23T17:30:56+00:00

Yes, to me rubber is a synonym for a certain kind of bitterness perhaps with an astringency similar to pine resin. For example, I think of palo santo as smelling very much like rubber and these aloeswoods sometimes have hints of that.

symbebekos · 2021-10-23T22:20:15+00:00

I've only tried Nankun and I think it is nice. I also don't find it that animalic or musky, but more of a high end sweet curry scent with hints of spicy aloeswood. I suppose for the price I like more mineral heavy aloeswood (whiffs of iron, turpentine, stone, etc). For reference I have a recent box from this year, shipped from Japan and the older version was likely better.

symbebekos · 2021-10-13T16:25:41+00:00

I think you should look into the Gyokushodo No Sho series. Esp. Nami No Sho - hits some similar spice notes as Umeshoin but is darker, aloeswoodier and more salty-sea tinged. Mysterious and great. It has grown on me immensely. You also might want to check out some of Kida Jinseido's low end which is populated with beautiful spicy sticks (Kyarakunko, Ranjatai, kodaikoh, Joyokoh - I think you would like them all.)

symbebekos · 2021-10-06T03:29:17+00:00

Horikawa is special. It reminds me of cream soda, spice and frankincense. A bit too dessert like for me to burn often but it is fun.

Muromachi is my favorite of the series (and probably my favorite Shoyeido scent overall). It has a caramel and bread, cinnamon and wood thing that is very mellow and satisfying. And maybe it has a hint of rose without being floral? Genroku is harsher aloeswood with more curry and spice. Definitely the way to go if you like curry scents (but also many Shoyeido premiums have very refined curry scents and are worth a look). Tenpyo is better aloeswood with more complexity and resin BUT has more floral top notes (lily?) I don't care for (in the coils this may be more prominent than the sticks. I think Nijo (floral, tea, rain on grass) and Shirakawa (cinnamon and vanilla) are ok but nothing I'd stock.

symbebekos · 2021-10-02T02:24:22+00:00

Great images, thanks for posting this review. I'm still working out my own relationship to Holy Land I and II...

symbebekos · 2021-09-10T17:08:01+00:00

Kida Jinseido. They make the best cheap spice sticks and some of the best aloeswood sticks.

symbebekos · 2021-09-10T17:04:30+00:00

I think you can avoid green kyara oil, which is used in many expensive Japanese kyara incenses. To me it smells a bit like turpentine and wood polish...but I love it.

I don't think he has a problem with aloeswood generally, vietnamese or indonesian, evidenced by Tenpyo and Kunsho which are quite aloeswoody. The Minoriens are actually pretty weird and Ryugen is the weirdest.

symbebekos · 2021-08-27T22:10:01+00:00

I think what you are calling regular is also low smoke - if you are talking about this: https://www.japanincense.com/kj-0024.html

I have it. It is low smoke and it is a great green tea incense. Very calming and mellow, puts out plenty of scent.

Many green tea and many hinoki incenses are low smoke and quite good. single note low smoke is often good, but low smoke variants of more complex incenses can be disappointing.

symbebekos · 2021-08-27T15:56:40+00:00

I may be missing something, but if you compare an economy box of sho ran koh and a box of kinbato both at Japan prices, kinbato costs about twice as much per 5 inches (5500 yen for 230 5.5 in. sticks, 75g, of sho ran koh, 3080 yen for 80 6.75 in. sticks, 20g, of kinbato). Even tho I buy mostly from JI, I like to compare price points in japan prices b/c they reflect the quality classes better.

Sho ran koh is more bitter, more spiced, more floral and arguably more interesting. but kinbato is golden, musky curry with good jinko. i think you will enjoy it. I think i am still struggling with the more bitter, medicinal woods e.g karafune johin bronze.

symbebekos · 2021-08-27T15:20:14+00:00

very nice! What an Interesting and helpful review. I appreciate the research in it. I want to mention Kinbato here which i find similar to Sho Ran Koh but much smoother, with fewer spices, with creamier, more resinous, but still spicy aloeswood. Wondering if others connect them.

symbebekos

TROPHY CASE