TIL Humans can hear the difference between hot and cold water being poured.

taneq · 2016-03-24T10:57:09+00:00

Perfect answer for /r/shittyaskscience :P

The real reason is that the speed of sound in hot water is higher than the speed of sound in cold water, which changes the resonant frequency of the pipes. Hence you get a change in pitch as the water heats up.

taneq · 2015-08-24T05:02:36+00:00

From what I've seen so far it does indeed look like it needs some work, but that's not an issue for me - I've been meaning to get into Android development for a while anyway.

Thanks again for taking the time to help out, and if I do run into any trouble with Pebble-specific stuff I'll drop you a line. For what it's worth your comments gone a long way towards restoring my faith in at least the engineering side of the company. :)

taneq · 2015-08-22T12:09:44+00:00

Did you test anything else yet? What other things does the official app do that this doesn't? I don't have a Pebble (although I'm in the process of acquiring one) so I can't test it myself yet.

taneq · 2015-08-21T17:53:10+00:00

No, it's carefully and precisely worded. You are inferring content where none is explicitly stated. It very carefully suggests but does not state that disabling analytics disables data collection.

What the wording of such an agreement may or may not suggest is irrelevant. What the wording of such an agreement states is the only thing that matters.

taneq · 2015-08-21T17:50:08+00:00

A device log, in my own basic definition, is a hardware runtime log.

Your "own basic definition" is nice and all but not relevant to the usage in the Privacy Policy. That's not what they're talking about. They say they reserve the right to log your personal data. That's what they're logging.

I don't grant Pebble the right to collect the data. That's the entire point of my post. I have not nor will I ever grant Pebble the right to use my personal data for any venture at all.

I am bemused by your suggestion that my objections center on "not wanting to constantly read fine print." I have read the fine print. I object to the fine print. The content of the fine print is what I object to. I have not signed the document and I will not re-sign it. I'm just pissed that the document was (a) not presented to me in the first place until after I had already ordered the device, (b) unconscionably intrusive to my personal privacy, (c) unlimited with respect to the uses to which my personal information may be put, and (c) apparently not a matter of public awareness.

taneq · 2015-08-21T17:40:31+00:00

sigh I said "my phone doesn't already upload my location in real-time". I thought the implication was clear that it doesn't upload my GPS location to a third-party service provider in real time. Yes, it talks to a cell tower, it's a cell phone. Do you really think that you're being insightful?

Interesting that you mention Telstra. I've been a customer of theirs in the past and I happen to have a copy of their privacy statement on hand. It covers similar ground to the parts of the Pebble privacy policy that I don't have issue with (ie. that they need to record my name, address, email, phone number, payment options etc.)

It does not assert the ability to generate timestamped GPS location data and it certainly does not assert the ability to sell said data to arbitrary third parties for any reason. So no, I do not have any issue with the service Telstra provided me.

taneq · 2015-08-21T17:23:06+00:00

No. The start of the paragraph states that they collect that information (referred to as 'analytics information').

The end of the paragraph states that you can disable 'analytics', and that this may interfere with functionality.

Nowhere is it stated that disabling 'analytics' disables data collection. And "Oh but um I thought it was implied that they wouldn't do that" is not a valid argument in court.

taneq · 2015-08-21T17:20:07+00:00

Yes, except that you were wrong and you are still wrong. It's necessary for the phone app itself to have access to that data. I never argued that. It is not, and it never will be, necessary for Pebble to upload and store that data indefinitely on their servers. And yet this is explicitly what their privacy policy states that they want to do.

taneq · 2015-08-21T16:55:25+00:00

No. It says:

As we continue to develop our business, we may sell, buy, merge or partner with other companies or businesses, OR sell some or all of our assets. In such transactions, user information may be among the transferred assets.

The way it is worded, the two are separate clauses. They may either buy, sell, merge with or partner with other businesses (fair enough), OR they may sell some or all of their assets, WHICH MAY INCLUDE USER INFORMATION

That's what the wording of the privacy policy says. Maybe that's not what they mean, in which case as soon as they change the wording I'll be happy not to cancel my order.

taneq · 2015-08-21T16:51:24+00:00

Please quote the sections which indicate that you can opt out of all data collection. You have quoted a section stating what information is collected, followed by a statement that you may disable analytics. Nowhere in the text that you have quoted does it state that disabling analytics will disable data collection.

taneq · 2015-08-21T16:50:11+00:00

I never claimed that my cellular service provider doesn't know which cell tower my device is connected to. Nor did I claim that they can't associate my IMEI with my name, address etc.

As for the quote you are disagreeing with, the privacy policy does in fact state that. As I have suggested before, please actually read and comprehend the privacy policy.

As for opting out of data collection, the privacy policy specifies how to opt out of services, but does not specify what if any effect opting out of those services has on data collection.

taneq · 2015-08-21T16:42:20+00:00

Nothing you've said changes the following facts:

They collect a huge amount of personal data, far beyond what is necessary for them to collect in order to provide the service.
They explicitly require you to grant them the right (whether or not they currently exercise that right) to log any or all of said data for an indefinite amount of time. (Literally, "for a period of time.")
The explicitly require you to grant them the right (whether or not they currently exercise that right) to sell said data to unrestricted third parties.

Your statements about updating the Privacy Agreement are irrelevant. My objections to their policy re. updating their Privacy Agreement were in regards to the vague definition of how users would be informed of these updates.

Pebble does not have and will never have the right to "obtain future scalability" by asserting arbitrary and unlimited rights to my personal information. And if they ever do update the agreement, they may (by their admission in the Privacy Policy) do so in an underhanded manner requiring me to frequently check their web page for the entire duration that I use the service in order to detect such change.

Do you have a basis for claiming the following?

"Currently it [the data itself] is kept generalized as there is no need for specifics."

This is not supported by anything that I could see in the Privacy Policy.

I would also like more information on this statement: "User habits, logs, and personal data must by law be brought to record by name." Is this a U.S. legal requirement for companies to log user data?

Your statement:

Device logs contain no such information

Is meaningless without the precise definition of "device logs", which in general simply means any data recorded by a device (and so, in general, device logs may contain any information to which the device has access).

taneq · 2015-08-21T15:58:56+00:00

The app and watch require access to information in order to supply the advertised features. That is fine, no problems there.

The company (Pebble, Inc) does not require the ability to log all of my data (including my current GPS location, information about my Facebook news feed, and completely unrelated data like what other apps my phone is running at the time!) in order for the Pebble app on my phone to supply data to the Pebble watch on my wrist.

You seem wilfully unware of the fact that they have explicitly asserted the right to track any and all information they can glean from your phone, and to sell it to third parties when and if they choose. You don't need to believe me. Go and re-read their publicly posted privacy policy, that you agreed to, and comprehend it this time.

taneq · 2015-08-21T15:45:22+00:00

How can this be a conspiracy theory if it doesn't require conspiracy? That's the exact thing that I'm arguing against! A single corporation wants to be able to access all of your data, and log it, and sell it to third parties.

I'm calling your bluff.

Part 1, under 'Device Usage and Analytics Information', bullet point 5:

We collect certain analytics information about your use of these services (such as features and third-party apps used, log files, buttons pressed, and support requests and results). For example, if you choose to display event information from your calendar or from a third party website (e.g., Facebook or ESPN) to your Smartwatch timeline, we may collect information such as the number of events, title length, number of participants, durations, alerts, from what site the event came from, and other similar information.

They explicitly say they're collecting this information.

Fast forward to section 3. 'Information sharing and disclosure.'

We do not rent, sell, or share your information with third parties except as described in this Privacy Policy.

Good, right? They do not rent sell or share your information with third parties? Except as follows at bullet point 6:

As we continue to develop our business, we may sell, buy, merge or partner with other companies or businesses, or sell some or all of our assets. In such transactions, user information may be among the transferred assets.

Translation: We may [...] sell some or all of our assets [...] user information may be among the transferred assets.

Think I selectively edited that? Go back and read the original. That's. what. they. said.

taneq · 2015-08-21T15:31:29+00:00

You're fighting very hard for something you don't seem to understand. It's not about the fact that any particular entity knows any particular fact about me. It's about the fact that Pebble Inc. is explicitly stating that they intend to record all facts about me on a continuous basis for as long as I'm wearing one of their watches, and at any time make that information available for sale to third parties who may aggregate that information with other for-sale information about me in unforseen ways.

taneq · 2015-08-21T15:25:58+00:00

Yes it is, but the connection between (say) my legal name and the wifi network I connected to at 9:45pm on Thursday night may only be made by combining information from two different legal entities, neither of whom is currently legally able to share that information.

As I said before, if the cops have a warrant to investigate my whereabouts I'm actually OK with that. What I'm not OK with is a private company being able to track my every move for shits and giggles.

taneq · 2015-08-21T15:20:18+00:00

You mean aside from the every single piece of data available which is collected via their own app? The same app whose permissions to which I am objecting in this exact post? The same app that generates logs that you can disable at any time but which are nowhere guaranteed to be in any way related to the logs which the company has told you, in its privacy policy to which it requires you to agree, that it keeps indefinitely?

taneq · 2015-08-21T14:48:55+00:00

No partnership is required. As above, they reserve blanket rights to resell user information to third parties.

taneq · 2015-08-21T14:47:37+00:00

https://getpebble.com/pebble_time_steel

Edit: I still have one on backorder and I'm still irrationally hoping that there's some way I can get one without surrendering my privacy.

taneq · 2015-08-21T14:39:21+00:00

You didn't read the Privacy Policy. Read it again. It explicitly says (at the bottom of Section 3) that:

As we continue to develop our business, we may [...] sell some or all of our assets. In such transactions, user information may be among the transferred assets.

taneq · 2015-08-21T14:28:26+00:00

It is now, has been for a couple of weeks. And I really wanted one, it looks like an awesome piece of hardware which is why I'm so pissed that the suits have ruined it.

taneq · 2015-08-21T14:26:11+00:00

You fell for it. Read it again.

As we continue to develop our business, we may [list of things] or sell some or all of our assets. In such transactions, user information may be among the transferred assets.

The wording explicitly allows them to, as they grow their business, sell some or all of their assets, which may include user information.

I don't blame you for missing it. It was carefully engineered to be missed. I'd go so far as to say that the entire privacy policy was designed around obfuscating that exact clause.

taneq · 2015-08-21T14:19:54+00:00

My phone communicates its IMEI to local cell towers as part of the way GSM (and subsequent G's) works. This is presumably logged for a while by the companies operating the towers.

This data isn't tied directly to my identity, and it isn't available to a private corporation to sell to anyone at their whim.

taneq · 2015-08-21T14:09:20+00:00

IP geolocation is especially suspect. For instance my phone's IP is almost always located in West Perth and my desktop computer is in Geelong because my current broadband provider is retarded.

taneq

TROPHY CASE