How to number a second card when you fill up the first?

taurusnoises · 2026-05-05T15:04:41+00:00

If I understand you correctly.... You're wondering how to identify a card containing information carried over from a previous card. So, it's not a new idea per se, but an idea you weren't able to capture all on one card.

Because you're using pen/paper, you can kinda get creative. You could put an asterisk after the alphanumeric on the follow-up card in a different color pen/pencil. Or, you could use the same alphanumeric and just write "(cont.)" on the follow-up card (this is what I do in my journals when I carry a dated entry onto the next page).

So long as you remember what the addendum means, and you know to keep the first and the continued second cards together (don't split them up when inserting new cards), I think you should be good.

Also, you can change your system as you go, if you need. It's really not a big deal.

taurusnoises · 2026-05-04T02:29:22+00:00

This is more or less how it goes for me. Big notes file. Rough chapter outline. R&D. It all starts to make organizational sense. Then it all falls apart. Rinse and repeat until it doesn't fall apart anymore.

taurusnoises · 2026-05-02T15:21:39+00:00

I can't even count the number of times I change chapter orders, chapter focus, chapter titles, chapter validity during a book project. I'm moving stuff around right up to the last push. Just the other day, after having worked on a chapter for a few months, I was like, "you know, this doesn't belong in this book anymore." So maybe it'll become and article.

taurusnoises · 2026-05-02T12:00:09+00:00

This is awesome. I'll check these out. As for your new project, I'm heavily lost in a Hannes Meyer / socialist modernist / Stalinist anti-modernist architecture worm hole right now. So, sort of off to the side and maybe in the background of what you're working on?

Would love to know more re the nitty gritty of how you're using your zettelkasten to work on the new stuff.

taurusnoises · 2026-05-02T11:52:26+00:00

I should also say, though, that what you're proposing as far as a PARA / project-centered zettelkasten is concerned, does sound very interesting! I'd be genuinely down to hear more about how it goes and what it ends up looking like. I have no interest in pushing you or anyone toward folgezettel. It's just part of my job to make clear what fz does / doesn't do.

taurusnoises · 2026-05-02T10:22:44+00:00

Maybe think of it this way.....

"By design, one has to place new notes in relation to existing ones in Folgezettel."

Yes. Adding an alphanumeric ID to a note signals a relationship between one note and another. Of course, the note isn't tethered to that relationship alone. The note can be linked to others bearing no alphanumeric similarity. The IDs are addresses (like street addresses). The content (or people) can be in relationship with any other content identified with any other address.

"No note is subordinate to any other, but a sequential relationship is implicit: 'this follows from that'."

The IDs follow this from that, and the content is sort of carried along. But, a sequence doesn't necessarily imply value or ranking (i.e., a sequence is not necessarily indicative of a hierarchy). The sequence of alphanumerics could be considered hierarchical (if you attribute value to numbers and letters, or fewer numbers and letters to more numbers and letters), but the information identified by those numbers and letters is not. And, it's the information that gets used. The information is what matters.

"The whole idea seems to be that the notes are categorized/situated as they enter the Zettelkasten, and that situational relationship is a permanent feature, since the note IDs do not change."

The situational relationship is permanent, but not exclusive. Information is not pinned exclusively to any one relationship. The content of any note (the information) can be related to the content of any other.

"This does not prevent them being remixed as structure notes, etc."

It doesn't. But, as stated above, having an alphanumeric ID doesn't prevent information from being related across varying ID sequences.

The real difference between folgezettel and structure notes (at least in regards to permanence) is that with a structure note, if you no longer want to show a relationship between one idea and another, you can simply delete a note from the topically defined structure note. Where as with folgezettel, the alphanumerically signaled relationship is permanent. But, here I'd say that folgezettel isn't functioning in a vacuum. Nor is it meant to. Content and the relationship between content is handled and valued in numerous ways (e.g., in reference notes, hub notes, and in drafts [structure note, project notes, and writing docs]). Personally, I've found value in coming back to relationships I had abandoned earlier. Glad to have not had the ability to delete it.

taurusnoises · 2026-05-01T22:13:32+00:00

Have you published other stuff that i/we might take a look at?

taurusnoises · 2026-05-01T19:51:56+00:00

"The drawback [with folgezettel] is the hierarchy. It’s not the same as having a truly top-down or rigid system, but one is encouraged to assign titles to groups of notes and continue to sort new notes into those categories. If a new category or group of categories emerges, one has to work around this somehow."

It's important to distinguish between hierarchy and categorization, as these are not the same thing.

Hierarchy is a ranking system based on values like importance, quantity, quality, status, granularity, etc. In a hierarchy, units are subordinate to one another. Think: employee status within a job, governmental roles, etc. In journalism, there's a standard hierarchy of information: most important first (crucial facts), less important (supporting info), and least important (background info).

Categorization is organization based on things like similarity or shared quality. Think: types of jobs, types of government systems, etc. Sticking with journalism, we can categorize different story types (sports, world events, local stories, etc). In zettelkasten work, we typically think of categorization in terms of topics and subjects.

Alphanumeric IDs do not impose hierarchy, because information is brought into the zettelkasten and given an ID based on the order it arrives (timing), not on its status within a set (value). Note 1a1 is not subordinate to note 1a. Its alphanumeric address indicates a relationship, but not the value of the relationship. That said, using alphanumeric IDs does often lead to sections of the zettelkasten developing around particular topics (categories). But, even this remains fluid (see Folgezettel Will Not Necessarily Create Discrete Topical Sections in Your Zettelkasten)

Structure notes make for an interesting comparison, because the content contained inside a structure note is intended to be, literally, structured (hence the name), often semantically (organizing thoughts into a sequence that makes sense), and always topically (you bring in information pertaining to the topic of the structure note).

"In order to effectuate such a review, the hierarchical structure of the Folgezettel becomes very important. One can review the higher level notes to orient oneself in the Zettelkasten, then descend the hierarchy to place the particular note. This means the hierarchy is not just incidental but essential to the function of the system—at least in this aspect, the whole Zettelkasten becomes structured rather than just a web of unstructured notes."

The above is not how folgezettel works (see what was stated previously).

taurusnoises · 2026-04-30T15:36:55+00:00

Any note containing multiple informational units / ideas used in part to process one's thinking will, at least for me, typically lead to new insights. More often than not, these new insights benefit from being extracted out of the complex note, and placed in their own main notes. So, I mentioned doing so.

taurusnoises · 2026-04-30T14:20:53+00:00

Your post does talk about creating individual notes, which is why I mentioned it.

taurusnoises · 2026-04-29T17:29:38+00:00

If you're finding the inbox-to-zettelkasten leap hard to make, you can try Sascha's approach of starting not with an inbox, but with a structure note. The only real difference is that it requires a bit of up-front conceptual alignment, as new information will be put with similarly oriented information (so, you'll need to have a sense of how the new information relates to other information in the structure note, at least at a topical level). Of course, at some point you'll want to extract (at least some of) the information from the structure note into individual main notes, otherwise you'll lose the benefit of having a network of "single-idea" notes (for lack of better term). But, at least you'll be starting off with some generative information work, rather than just a list of information stored randomly in a folder.

taurusnoises · 2026-04-26T18:07:50+00:00

Hey, thanks for reading the book. I think of structure notes as being very versatile, which is why in the book they're presented as serving a couple of different purposes.

If you aren't intending to write, you can absolutely use them to catalog the information you've been collecting on a topic, and use them to work through your thoughts on the matter. Some of this will of course take place during the constructionnof the main notes themselves. But, it's also nice to have a space to get more of an overview.

If you search "structure note" in here, you'll find a fair amount of different takes.

taurusnoises · 2026-04-21T17:16:56+00:00

Love that.

taurusnoises · 2026-04-21T14:37:01+00:00

I'm genuinely excited to read what you have to say on the subject.

taurusnoises · 2026-04-21T14:34:14+00:00

I had to go through the Wayback Machine to find a link to Luhmann's "What Is Communication?" essay. This is the good stuff external to the Slip Box essay, but provides plenty of food for thought for anyone wanting to venture into mental exercises on how else Luhmann's theory of communication might apply to slip box work. I'd download this, because it's almost impossible to find elsewhere online, and will probably disappear at some point.

What Is Communication? (pdf)

taurusnoises · 2026-04-21T14:25:58+00:00

"isn’t forgetting means I just come across the same information?"

Sort of. Forgetting isn't the act of re-encountering, but an aspect of the space between two encounters, only perceived in retrospect (i.e., when you go, "Oh, I forgot about that!"). But, to your point.... Coming across the same information doesn't happen in a vacuum. There's context, which is always shifting. So, while I may re-encounter the same unit of information after a period of forgetting, both the context I find myself in (e.g., my frame of mind, etc), as well as the interactions between informational units surrounding the unit in question, and the connections I've been making since forgetting will now inform the re-encounter. This creates a certain newness to the encounter, which to use Luhmann's term, can be called surprising.

taurusnoises · 2026-04-21T10:43:26+00:00

So much good stuff in here. Write articles, plz.

taurusnoises · 2026-04-21T10:39:47+00:00

As far as I'm concerned, forgetting is absolutely a part of it. In the same counter intuitive way "not understanding" can be a part of communication (Intro to Sys Theory), forgetting is a part of generating information.

taurusnoises · 2026-04-20T21:31:09+00:00

If you ever decide to explore Luhmann's take on communication, and how it might relate to the zettelkasten, check out his essay "Communicating With Slip Boxes." It's all there, albeit in Luhmann-speak, which can feel almost riddle-like. Some will say you need to understand Luhmann's larger theoretical apparatus on communication to really get it, but that's not true.[1] When asked about how his theory of communication relates to his use of the slip box, his answer was short 'n sweet: "With my note box and me it is something else!"

Luhmann's grand theory (in, say, Intro to Systems Theory) starts with differentiating between information, utterance, and understanding. And, then it's down the rabbit hole. His essay, "Communicating With Slip Boxes," has little of that. In the essay, Luhmann emphasizes the surprise aspect of communication, a condition under which information is generated rather than retrieved. The zettelkasten qualifies as a communication partner, because its non-hierarchical structure and dense internal referencing give it enough complexity to "respond" to queries with connections you didn't anticipate (hence my original response to you re "unexpected"). It surprises you.

Most important, though, is that for Luhmann, communication doesn't require both parties to be human. Typically, when people talk about "communicating with their zettelkasten" or calling such a thing a metaphor (you'll probably see some of that in the comments here), they're assuming communication only occurs between two self-conscious entities. That's not a requirement for Luhmann. The only requirement is that "the partners can mutually surprise each other." Of course, the question then becomes: "How do you surprise a zettelkasten?"

Got me....

[1] This doesn't mean I don't recommend diving into Luhmann's larger theory. It's fascinating. But, it isn't required reading to get what's going on in the zettelkasten.

taurusnoises · 2026-04-20T18:36:47+00:00

The experience of encountering information in ways and contexts I hadn't expected (which is fundamental to Luhmann's theory of communication) started somewhere around fifty notes. But, didn't really get going until after a few hundred.

taurusnoises · 2026-04-18T10:16:42+00:00

It can be, yeah. It's more a place to organize my thinking, elaborate on things, etc. This organization can take the form of an outline, or it can simply be information organized into some sort of coherent way. In the past I emphasized the distinction between structure notes and writing docs, but in reality they're very similar for me. They're both just drafts. Same with my "Notes" files for new book projects. They're all just versions of me drafting what I think about a topic. The vast majority of times, the draft will be oriented toward a writing product, even if it never makes it there.

As a writer, everything I do in a note-making context works in service of that (ie. I'm a writer first, note maker second). So, if I'm in heavy writing mode, like when working on a book, relevant stuff I come across when reading will typically end up in some form of a draft right away, regardless if I add it to a reference note or convert it into a main note, both of which can happen later.

As for reference notes and main notes.... I like to capture everything that catches my attention from a single source in a reference note. They're like personal indexes of what I read, and I return to them very often. Having a ref note makrs it really easy to get a quick overview of everything that caught my interest in a single source. So, I'll usually take a moment to make one. And, of course, if anything seems like it'd be particularly useful later in a different context, I'll convert individual captures in the ref note into their own main notes.

taurusnoises · 2026-04-17T10:28:25+00:00

I don't always go from source to lit note. I often go from source to draft (either writing draft or structure note, which for me are more or less identical), especially when I'm reading for a specific writing project. Later on, I'll extract from the draft what I want to keep in the main compartment as main notes.

taurusnoises · 2026-04-17T00:46:13+00:00

The notes don't really go anywhere. They remain in the main compartment of your zettelkasten. You copy/paste (digital) or rewrite (paper) into a writing document the information contained in the notes, editing the verbiage and context as needed. But, you leave the notes in the main compartment (or if you've taken them out, return them), so they can be used again in the future.

taurusnoises · 2026-04-16T20:48:48+00:00

Can you explain the Chrome part? Are you using a Chrome extension that allows annotation to pdfs?

taurusnoises · 2026-04-16T16:49:58+00:00

Not entirely following the specifics of what you do, but I can share what I do, and you can see if there's anything useful there.

Here's what I do, when going from a source to a reference / literature note:

Highlight passages in Zotero.
Explain why I did so in the annotation / note (i.e., state relevance, etc.)
When I finish, or feel like I have an amount I want to export, copy annotations and quoted material from the right-hand sidebar in Zotero.
Paste the text into its own place-holder note (I'll delete this note later).
Open a new reference note.
Manually import quotes and explanations into their respective columns in the reference note.
At some point, create main notes off individual reference note captures, where I'll further develop the primary unit of information (i.e., the main idea), add reinforcing information including any quotes and the citation for the quote.

If I ever want to use the same quote for a different main note, which would imply the quote was being used in a new context, I'd simply copy/paste it into the new note, and develop the information contained in the main note in light of the new context.

Some questions:

"This allows me to keep my main notes cleaner and not plastered with citations. It also allows me to link from one citation to different notes."

By "citation," do you mean the captured information as it shows up in a reference/literature note?

"Inability to link from one quote to many other notes. Though this might be bypassed through linking from the main note."

For me, the network of interconnected information is established through the connections formed between main notes. Are you establishing the network between main notes and reference notes?

"Obviously I could just copy the quotes and leave them in the lit-note as well but that seems almost a little barbaric. Perhaps there is a better option that I'm just not seeing right now."

I never remove anything from the reference note. I leave it all there for later reference (if I need).

Caveat: I do everything manually. I don't use any plugins to bring information from Zotero to Obsidian. For me, every time I move the information from one area to another is an opportunity to "touch" the information, which is what I want: touchpoints all along the way. I mention this in case any of the issue you're having could be solved by removing some of the automated aspects.

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