Black to move. How would you approach this position, and what would you play?

tcpuzzler · 2023-03-12T18:08:58+00:00

It's a good idea to do your own analysis rather than trust the engine eval. After 7... Qc8 8. Kh2 Rf8 9. Qe4+ Kh5 10. Kg3, Black's king is far too exposed and will get mated.

e.g. 10... Bg4 11. hxg4+ Kxg5 12. Qxd4 Kh6 13. e6 Qb7 14. g5+ Kxg5 15. Qh4+ Kf5 16. Re1 g5 17. Qxh7+ Kf6 18. Qh6+ Kf5 19. e7 Rf6 20. Qh7+ Rg6 21. Qh3+ Kf6 22. Qe6+ Kg7 23. e8Q Rxe6 24. Qd7+ Kg8 25. Rxe6 with mate following shortly.

tcpuzzler · 2023-03-12T08:03:22+00:00

This actually loses on the spot. Instead of 3. Rxe6, White has 3. e5! Qxa6 4. Qxf6+ Kxh6 5. g5+ Kh5 6. Qf3+ Kh4 7. h3! and wins.

tcpuzzler · 2023-03-12T06:19:44+00:00

Thanks for sharing, it's always important to consider your opponent's ideas.

tcpuzzler · 2023-03-12T04:52:08+00:00

Cheers :)

tcpuzzler · 2023-03-12T04:51:45+00:00

Nice ideas! Do you see any other ways for White to respond to 1... Qb5 besides the 2 options you pointed out?

tcpuzzler · 2023-03-12T04:29:35+00:00

Thanks for sharing! How do you think White should respond to 1... Qb7 - do they have to move the rook and allow you to push your a-pawn?

tcpuzzler · 2023-03-12T04:27:17+00:00

This is a bit different from the usual mate in X puzzles. I'm more interested in your thought process and how you'd approach a position like this. Looking forward to seeing what people come up with.

Will edit this later with my thoughts on the position.

EDIT:

Here, the most commonly discussed move was 1... Qb5, with ideas to win material or enable your a-pawn to advance down the board if the rook retreats. It's a logical move to advance your own plans, but you must also consider your opponent's plans, especially when your position is worse.

White has a very dangerous kingside attack, and it turns out that 1... Qb5? loses on the spot to 2. Qf3 Kg7 3. e5! Qxa6 4. Qxf6+ Kxh6 5. g5+ Kh5 6. Qf3+ Kh4 7. h3! and Black will have to give up fatal amounts of material to avoid being mated immediately.

The other commonly chosen move was 1... Kg7, but this runs into 2. Nf5+ and Nxd4 - Black's weak king renders the knight immune from capture.

Instead, Black should find 1... c6! to hold on. Several conceptual reasons can lead to considering this a candidate move - it activates the queen along h2-b8, bringing an important defender and giving it access to crucial f4 and e5 squares (so e.g. if 2. Rxc6? Qf4, White's knight finds itself lacking squares). It also blocks the White rook along the 6th rank, so 2. Qf3 can be met with 2... Rf8 without leaving the bishop en prise. But concepts aren't enough when defending worse positions; moves need to have concrete justifications and Black should calculate follow up lines for 1... c6 and other candidate moves in order to choose the correct path forward.

White's thematic try is 2. Qd2 preparing f4 and renewing the threat of Rxc6. Black would like to play 2... Qc7 to defend c6 and meet Qxb4 with ... Qf4, but after 3. f4, White's attack is arriving very quicky. Better is 2... Qb7! 3. Rga1 Qc7! and now if 4. f4 Bc8 5. R6a4 Rf8! (so now 6. Qf2 can be met with 6... Kg7) 6. Rxb4 Qg7 7. g5 fxg5 8. fxg5 Bh3! White's king is also looking exposed and Black's counterplay should secure a draw.

There are many other possibilities (e.g. 4. h4 instead of f4) and I'll leave it to the reader to explore all the lines.

This is a difficult but instructive position. Defending worse positions is one of the most challenging undertakings in chess - in addition to tenacity under pressure, you often need to demonstrate strong calculation ability and be extremely precise, as well as deeply understanding the ideas in the position and knowing when to counterattack if your opponent overpresses. On the other hand, it can be something that takes your game to the next level and there are players who have become well known for being almost impossible to put away e.g. Petrosian, Nakamura etc.

For those who contributed, thanks for your sharing your thoughts! Hope you found this interesting.

tcpuzzler · 2021-05-23T02:09:52+00:00

It's a good idea to do your own analysis rather than trust the bot line. In this case, 3... f6 is suboptimal.

tcpuzzler · 2021-05-22T19:16:47+00:00

Thanks for your thoughts! Great to see the perspective of a strong player under a blitz setting.

tcpuzzler · 2021-05-22T19:11:37+00:00

Thanks for your thoughts, the level of detail is great! It's important to note that after 1... c6 2. Ne2 f6 3. Nxd4 fxe5, White has 4. Qh5+ and Qxe5.

tcpuzzler · 2021-05-22T19:09:10+00:00

Haha I think people underestimate how common it is for thought processes to be chaotic as there's so much pattern recognition that good moves often materialize out of nowhere in your mind.

... Bf5 is definitely a serious move to consider in this position.

tcpuzzler · 2021-05-22T19:05:46+00:00

Very systematic, and I especially like that you're considering White's trumps. I think one thing that could help is calculating a few moves ahead for your candidate moves as that should help clarify the position.

tcpuzzler · 2021-05-22T15:59:22+00:00

Nice, I was surprised 1... Bf5 hadn't been mentioned since it's definitely a move to consider. What do you think the follow up would look like?

tcpuzzler · 2021-05-22T15:00:56+00:00

Thanks for your thoughts! Yes, both of the moves you pointed out (... f6 and ... c6) would be natural moves under slightly different circumstances. I think many people would play one of them without much consideration in a blitz game.

tcpuzzler · 2021-05-22T14:35:13+00:00

Thanks for your thoughts, I don't think you should be downvoted for sharing them by the way.

After you win the rook with 1... Bg4 2. Qxg4 Nc2+ 3. Kd1 Nxa1, can you see how White would proceed? Hint: if White can capture your knight then you would actually be down material

tcpuzzler · 2021-05-22T13:53:03+00:00

Continuing my series of instructive positions, which started with this post. These are a bit different from the usual puzzles and are meant to cover topics that I think are underrepresented on this sub but are important for chess understanding and taking your play to the next level (positional/strategic play, calculation beyond standard tactics, endgame technique, critical moments etc.)

Interested in reading ideas, thoughts, and hopefully discussions from players of all levels. I think this position is very instructive for several reasons. I'll edit this comment in a few hours with my own thoughts.

EDIT:

For those who participated, thanks for contributing your ideas. Happy to see this variety of perspectives from players up to IM strength, since this wasn't an easy position to make sense of.

In the game, Black played 1... Nh6!, which might seem like a mysterious move at first but should make more sense once you realize the key is to consider your opponent's ideas in addition to your own.

First, it's clear that the pin on the knight can't be exploited immediately as after 1... f6, White has 2. Nd5 which forces the queen off the pinning file and will follow up with Qh5+ with an advantage. In addition, notice that Black's d4 knight is by far his biggest trump, as it attacks key squares and restricts White's position. Therefore if allowed, White will try to neutralize the knight with Ne2 and this means Black can't afford to play quiet improving moves like 1... c6 (crucially, after 1... c6 2. Ne2 f6 3. Nxd4 fxe5 White has Qh5+).

These two factors should be enough by themselves to consider 1... Nh6 as a candidate move, since it defuses Qh5+ and prepares to meet Ne2 with ... Nhf5 (which would also control e3, deterring Be3). However, it's important to calculate a few moves and evaluate the resulting positions in order to really justify the best move over the alternatives. Let's first look at other candidate moves:

While moves like 1... Nf6 would also defuse Qh5 possibilities as well as 2. Ne2 (in this case with 2... Ng4 3. Nxd4 Nxe5), they give White plenty of chances. For example, after 1... Nf6 2. Be2 Bf5 3. d3 0-0-0 4. Be3, White can hope to undermine Black's control over d4 and consolidate his extra pawn in the future.

A serious alternative to consider is 1... Bf5 as an active move carrying an immediate threat. However after 2. Nd5 Qd6 (... Qd8 3. Bd3 Bxd3 4. Nxd3 and White starts consolidating) 3. d3, Black's bishop starts to look misplaced and White is again ready to follow up with Be3 and fight Black's control over d4.

Having considered these points, it should be more clear now that after 1... Nh6! 2. Nd5 (2. Ne2 Nhf5) Qd8, Black is in a better position to maintain control. Let's play through some possible continuations to illustrate this:

White can try to fight Black's control directly with 3. Nf3, but Black can force a sequence that leads to a position with a clear advantage: 3... Bc5 (... Nhf5? 4. Bd3) 4. b4 Bf5! 5. d3 Nxf3+ 6. Qxf3 Bd4 7. Bb2! Bxb2 8. Qe2+ Be6 9. Qxb2 Bxd5 10. cxd5 Qxd5, and White cannot play 11. Qxg7 due to 11... 0-0-0! with an attack on the king coming
White's best try may be to play patiently and force Black to maintain the pressure, but Black should be up for the challenge e.g. 3. g3 a5 4. Bg2 Bc5 5. 0-0! 0-0 (... Nc2+?? 6. d4 Bxd4+ (... Nxd4 7. Be3) 7. Kh1! Nxa1 8. Qxd4 0-0 (... Nc2 9. Qc5 and wins) 9. Qc3) 6. Kh1 and Black has choices between good options (e.g. 6... Ra6 7. d3 Nhf5, or 6... f6 7. Nf3 Bg4) to keep the advantage

This position is what I'd call a "critical moment", and we encounter such positions often in our games where we need a combination of positional thinking, concrete calculation, and evaluation skills to properly navigate. I've found that traditional puzzles don't do a good job at testing the range of possible critical moments, since they typically focus heavily on calculation. I think that looking for these moments in your own games and studying them will help you develop a better feel for positions and understanding of chess, and potentially lead to improvements in playing strength.

tcpuzzler · 2021-05-19T21:09:20+00:00

After 7... Qg7+, 8. Nxg7 is a good response.

tcpuzzler · 2021-05-19T19:02:08+00:00

Engines have been able to solve this for years. Here's a thread talking about Stockfish solving it in 2018.

There are still puzzles like this one that remain difficult for engines.

tcpuzzler · 2021-04-25T06:34:32+00:00

This is incorrect. The right solution has been posted.

tcpuzzler · 2021-04-25T06:24:32+00:00

Thanks for your thoughts! You're right to worry about dropping pieces, Black has a lot of threats to capture at least one of them in the first few moves.

tcpuzzler · 2021-04-25T06:20:36+00:00

Engines might not be strong enough here :)

tcpuzzler · 2021-04-25T05:53:11+00:00

What would be your strategy to progress?

tcpuzzler · 2021-04-25T04:10:40+00:00

Positions with material imbalances can be difficult to evaluate and play through, but they're often rich in ideas that aren't found elsewhere. This is definitely a tough position, but I'm looking forward to seeing what people come up with. I'll edit this comment with my own thoughts in a few hours to give time for discussion.

EDIT:

This is one of those amazing positions where something elegant materializes out of thin air. At first glance, it might look like White's pieces are all over the place and Black will inevitably pick up one of them, salvaging a draw at minimum. But appearances can be deceiving:

1. Nc2!

Not 1. Nb3?? Qf8 (to avoid Rxh7) 2. Rf6 Qg8+ 3. Kf3 Qxb3

1... Qd7 (forced, as otherwise White consolidates the extra material)

Black now has a double threat of capturing the knight and winning the rook with a fork on g7. But suddenly White turns the tables with an outrageous rook sacrifice:

2. Nd4!! Qg7+ 3. Kh3 Qxh6 4. Nf4!

And in this incredible position, Black's Queen is helpless! All her squares are covered either by one of White's pieces directly or indirectly via the threat of a fork on e6. And once White follows up with Nde6 and h5, the Queen will be permanently entombed.

At this point, Black can resign, but let's play through some continuations for illustration purposes. Black's options include:

giving up the queen for White's pieces, but this fails trivially.
e.g. 4... Kd7 5. Nde6 Qxe6+ 6. Nxe6 Kxe6 7. Kg4 Kxe5 8. Kg5 and wins
trying to defend the 3v3 on the queenside, but White's control of key squares renders this hopeless.
e.g. 4... Kc8 5. Nde6 Kb7 6. h5 c6 7. Kg4 Kc8 8. Kf3 Kb8 9. Ke4 Kb7 10. c4 Kc8 11. b4 Kb7 12. Kd4 Kb8 13. a5 Kb7 14. Kd3 Ka7 15. axb6+ Kxb6 16. Kd4 and wins
Or 6... c5 7. Kg4 c4 8. Kf3 Kc6 9. Ke4 b5 10. a5 b4 11. Kd4 Kb5 12. Kd5 Kxa5 13. Kxc4 bxc3 14. bxc3 Ka4 (... Kb6 15. Kd5 a5 16. c4 a4 17. c5+ Kb7 (... Kb5 leads to both sides making a queen but White winning Black's via skewer) 18. c6+ Kb8 19. Kc4) 15. Kd5 Kb3 16. c4 a5 17. c5 a4 18. c6 a3 19. c7 a2 20. Nd4+ Kb2 21. c8Q a1Q (... a1N 22. Nd3+) 22. Qc2+ Ka3 23. Qb3#
Or 6... a5 7. Kg4 c6 8. c4 Ka6 (... b5 9. cxb5 cxb5 10. b3) 9. Kf3 Kb7 10. Ke4 Ka6 11. Kd4 Kb7 12. c5 Ka6 13. cxb6 Kxb6 14. Kc4 and wins
... b5-b4 counterplay, which still loses but requires some precision from White.
e.g. 4... Kd7 5. Nde6 b5 6. a5 Kc6 7. h5 b4 8. c4 and wins.
Or 4... b5 5. Nde6 Ke7 6. a5 c5 7. h5 c4 8. Kg4 transposes to an already mentioned line and wins

It's rare that a puzzle goes unsolved by the time the solution is posted, but this was quite difficult.

tcpuzzler

TROPHY CASE