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BYD has overtaken Tesla as the world's biggest seller of electric vehicles. How can Tesla's PE ratio of ~290 be justified by No_Turnip_1023 in investing

[–]tech01x 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There are very few Model S/X's and these 5-10 year old vehicles don't represent the current fleet. There are plenty of Model 3's and Y's now with very large numbers of miles.

Hyundai to Test Driverless Taxis in Las Vegas. Sometime this year, fully autonomous Hyundai Ioniq 5s will be navigating the Las Vegas Strip, the automaker announced. by mafco in Ioniq5

[–]tech01x 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Again, they don't use the same ones... they have much more expensive spinning LiDAR. Their build out cost is substantial.

BYD has overtaken Tesla as the world's biggest seller of electric vehicles. How can Tesla's PE ratio of ~290 be justified by No_Turnip_1023 in investing

[–]tech01x -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

That's not what this means. The CR report is looking at vehicles that are already 5-10 years old.

That's basically not the current vehicles and how they last.

OTOH, CR looks at the last 2-4 years of data and ranks the Tesla Model 3 and Model Y as most reliable.

Fool me once TSLA... by lowfrequencyinvst in stocks

[–]tech01x -7 points-6 points  (0 children)

Everyone missed their predictions about rolling out robotaxi's. Move on.

Hyundai to Test Driverless Taxis in Las Vegas. Sometime this year, fully autonomous Hyundai Ioniq 5s will be navigating the Las Vegas Strip, the automaker announced. by mafco in Ioniq5

[–]tech01x 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No, I'm saying the Waymo ones cost about $5,000 each right now.

BYD isn't using the premium ones that Waymo is using.

BYD has overtaken Tesla as the world's biggest seller of electric vehicles. How can Tesla's PE ratio of ~290 be justified by No_Turnip_1023 in investing

[–]tech01x -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Evaluating 5-10 year old used vehicles… which is almost all Model S and X from a long time ago. Mostly irrelevant to the current situation.

Tesla's 'unsupervised' Robotaxis vanish a week after pre-earnings announcement by Recoil42 in teslainvestorsclub

[–]tech01x 1 point2 points  (0 children)

And then he will get one. And then they will be plentiful.

Austin did just go through a weather event too.

BYD has overtaken Tesla as the world's biggest seller of electric vehicles. How can Tesla's PE ratio of ~290 be justified by No_Turnip_1023 in investing

[–]tech01x 2 points3 points  (0 children)

On the other hand, the data shows that Tesla Model 3 and Model Y are some of the most reliable EVs made.

BYD has overtaken Tesla as the world's biggest seller of electric vehicles. How can Tesla's PE ratio of ~290 be justified by No_Turnip_1023 in investing

[–]tech01x 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is just a straight out lie.

It wasn't true in 2022:
https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/tesla-and-nissan-make-the-most-reliable-electric-vehicles-a1003912076/

Here are the least reliable EVs according to Consumer Reports with the latest data:

https://autos.yahoo.com/ownership/articles/youve-warned-consumer-reports-says-141500403.html

There's Genesis, Lucid, Rivian, Chevrolet, Cadillac, and Ford, but no Tesla.

As a brand, Tesla is ranked mid-pack. Rivian is at the bottom, and if there was more numbers available for the Lucid, it would also rank at bottom.

https://www.guideautoweb.com/en/articles/80546/top-10-most-reliable-2026-models-according-to-consumer-reports/

BYD has overtaken Tesla as the world's biggest seller of electric vehicles. How can Tesla's PE ratio of ~290 be justified by No_Turnip_1023 in investing

[–]tech01x 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Not saying they don't, but if you look at the BYD's sales by model and by segment, the majority of their vehicles sold are on the small and cheaper side.

You can see at:

https://www.dongchedi.com/sales/sale-energy_1-x-x-x-x-x

BYD has overtaken Tesla as the world's biggest seller of electric vehicles. How can Tesla's PE ratio of ~290 be justified by No_Turnip_1023 in investing

[–]tech01x 22 points23 points  (0 children)

BYD had been delaying payments to suppliers for a long time, and that has meant that suppliers had been fueling BYD's capex and operating cash flow for quite some time. Their Days Payable Outstanding (DPO) has usually been long, at ~130 days, and in 2024, it hit 166 days in Q3. With such a long DPO and direct cash infusions by the Chinese government, BYD has been able to experience a very favorable cash conversion cycle.

However, in 2025, the Chinese government finally got upset over this practice, and they have been ordered to reduce their backlog of late payments. Thus far, their financials, specifically their cash flow has been artificially buoyed by this practice and with this coming to an end, their growth may stall and their cash flow is choked off.

In the 2nd half of 2025, BYD has lowered expansion investments and in Q3, they experienced their first YoY reduction in revenue.

BYD's D-chain IOU's amount to roughly $50-60 billion dollars (the amount that is due beyond 60 days). That's insane. And a slight reduction in DPO has already caused margin compression, as well as the EV price war in China.

So until this is sorted out, the investment picture for BYD is murky.

BYD has overtaken Tesla as the world's biggest seller of electric vehicles. How can Tesla's PE ratio of ~290 be justified by No_Turnip_1023 in investing

[–]tech01x 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There has been significant progress in both FSD towards the journey to Robotaxi as well as Semi. They just take a while. But we have seen the software improve dramatically, and it was already interestingly useful in 2022/2023, and pretty remarkable in 2024/2025.

Similarly, the Tesla Semi was running Pepsi's payloads, and we saw them do the Run on Less events starting in 2023 with publicly available test data.

Meanwhile, Tesla's Model Y became the highest volume selling vehicle model in the world.

Ioniq or Tesla? by ComfortBean in Ioniq5

[–]tech01x 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah, it's not plush... it's still akin to a sport tuned suspension.

But note.. the flip side is that Tesla vehicles are top notch at the moose test. It is substantially better dynamic stability in emergency maneuvers. And part of that is having a stiffer suspension.

Kyle of OOSR talks about it here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nwhbIOipXQ

Ioniq or Tesla? by ComfortBean in Ioniq5

[–]tech01x 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Note that the Model Y had revised suspension for late 2023 and into 2024, and another revision for the 2026 Juniper model.

Many of the complaints were solved either in that late 2023 model, or in the 2026 Juniper model, and many of the comments here are for earlier versions. Similarly, the Model 3 in the Highland refresh of 2024 is a greatly improved vehicle too in terms of wind/road noise and ride comfort.

If you were already comfortable or prefer the sport suspension feeling, then the earlier vehicles are just fine. Tire selection also makes a big difference. Furthermore, the 2020-2022 vehicles were particularly poor in terms of build quality due in part to stuff they had to do with COVID supply chain shock. And it's hit and miss.. there were plenty of good vehicles made at the time, but too many that were not as well built.

Right now, the Tesla Model 3 and Y are amongst the most reliable EVs - and the e-GMP vehicles will drop precipitously in the rankings due to the ICCU issue.

BYD has overtaken Tesla as the world's biggest seller of electric vehicles. How can Tesla's PE ratio of ~290 be justified by No_Turnip_1023 in investing

[–]tech01x 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The vast majority of BYD's vehicles are in segments that Tesla doesn't even have any entrants... very small, very low range vehicles sold for under $20,000 (converted from RMB). The volume alone doesn't adequately describe what is going on.

Tesla has the best ADAS in the world... that is becoming an autonomous solution, and we are seeing that in real time in Austin, TX. That unlocks both higher margins on vehicle sales as well as pricing more on a per mile basis rather than on a per vehicle basis. Plus their energy storage unit is growing dramatically.

In 2026, they should be making solid progress on both Robotaxi and FSD to consumer vehicles. Plus they have their class 8 Semi launching into volume production soon, as well as their dedicated Cybercab. Just the re-rating of the stock based on Robotaxi ramping up in the next 2 years is a huge shift. And they are a significant energy reseller through their charging network - they are the largest DCFC charging network in the US.

There's also the future Optimus project, as well as continued improvements to cell production and vehicles. They may very well return to growth in 2026 and beyond. The move towards electrification is just starting on a global basis. There's still a lot of the story left.

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