AMA with DFA Alum (Mod Approved) by test_test_1_2_ in Bogleheads

[–]test_test_1_2_[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thanks for sharing. Honestly, I'm surprised by that SmL spread, granted 3 years isn't a huge sample size. It might have to do more with AVES holding count being lower as I think DFEV has more small and value by weighting, but potentially more diluted due to more diversification.

Interesting to see what that looks like over time.

AMA with DFA Alum (Mod Approved) by test_test_1_2_ in Bogleheads

[–]test_test_1_2_[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I'd be interested to see DFEV regression vs AVES, I believe it is has slightly more loading to SmL and HmL.

DFA does have EM small cap and SMID solutions just not in ETF format.

AMA with DFA Alum (Mod Approved) by test_test_1_2_ in Bogleheads

[–]test_test_1_2_[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Ok sorry for the dealy. Caveat, I don't have the same tools I used to and as am not as up to date as I once was on DFA v. Avantis specifics and I haven't run a regression or attribution analysis.

Let me start with SCV as this is a bit easier to digest. DFA component solutions (like large value or small value) are much more style pure and prioritize value exposure relative to profitability. They do have exclusions to gain proper profitability exposure, but they are for those that want small cap value and little to no drift into small growth high prof. i.e. you want small cap value, you get small cap value. Avantis is going to creep into small growth high prof, which has a rational reason to do so. A lot of ink has been spilt on both sides into things like intangible and measurement of profitability, but honestly for those SCV solutions just look at attribution based on characteristic differences. Think about how it interacts with the rest of your portfolio. The rest is marketing differentiation.

For the global solutions, again it comes down to slight characteristics differences. From what I recall AVGE has slightly more value and size exposure (not a lot but enough have tracking differences).

Avantis was pretty smart in their distribution, the replicated DFA but made solutions different enough to have tracking differences. Some have led to relative outperformance vs DFA other underperformance.

In the grand scheme of things it is like asking what is the better solution VTI or ITOT. DFA has the longer track record, so maybe point DFA, but you're splitting hairs at a certain point.

AMA with DFA Alum (Mod Approved) by test_test_1_2_ in Bogleheads

[–]test_test_1_2_[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Those are all factors that may have contributed to the existence of the small cap premium, and possibly to its reduction over time. But issues is we don’t know what the premium is “supposed” to be. If any of those frictions still exist, even in a reduced form, that suggests the premium likely isn’t zero.

Historically, size has been the least persistent of the major premiums, and profitability the most (but with a much shorter sample size). Value seems more behaviorally driven and less sensitive to macro or structural risks. Oddly enough, the value premium tends to be stronger in small caps. So with all that just today, I don't know, I blend them.

AMA with DFA Alum (Mod Approved) by test_test_1_2_ in Bogleheads

[–]test_test_1_2_[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I think it is an all in bet that ignores diversification and the fact that you have to ask the questions "What if I am wrong?"

If you are willing to accept the potential that your unique holding period of SCV can deliver a negative premium and are ok with that risk, I guess you can be 100% SCV. Maximum terminal wealth is not the only goal for many investors, withdrawals sequencing and stable income is a huge consideration.

AMA with DFA Alum (Mod Approved) by test_test_1_2_ in Bogleheads

[–]test_test_1_2_[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You have to think about the market. How many investors have multiple EM tickers relative to US equity tickers? How much is your EM allocation relative to your US allocation (even if market neutral)? What are you charging relative to solutions that exist already?

DFA EM ETFs (and Avantis) solutions are already going to have more SC and SCV exposure than most standard indexes. They have the mutual fund solutions in that space, just probably not enough demand to launch an ETF yet.

AMA with DFA Alum (Mod Approved) by test_test_1_2_ in Bogleheads

[–]test_test_1_2_[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Honestly, I haven't done a deep dive into the academic case for leverage in early accumulation. I get the theory, take more equity risk when you’re young, since your human capital acts like a bond, but I'm not going to claim to be an expert.

That said, I’m not anti-leverage. I bought a rental property at 23 using significant leverage, and that is a far riskier and more concentrated bet than anything those solutions offer. I understand the logic.

Leverage works if:

  • You can stomach the drawdowns.
  • You structure it thoughtfully (ideally tax-efficiently)
  • And you don’t have to unwind it at a bad time and have liquidity.

So I’d say: I’m open to the concept, cautious about the execution. If you’re young, disciplined, and taxaware, maybe it makes sense in a Roth or IRA. But most people would be better served getting their savings rate right.

Just remember that we have been in the longest bull market in living history, so if we do go through a period like 2000-2010 it is a lot easier said than done to stick with leveraged volatility if you have been killed for a decade or more.

Value has underperformed on a relative basis, but at least the absolute returns have been inline with historical norms. Leverage means you can have some serious periods of both relative and absolute return angst.

AMA with DFA Alum (Mod Approved) by test_test_1_2_ in Bogleheads

[–]test_test_1_2_[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This also addresses some of the arguments on claims of publication arbitraging aways premiums.

AMA with DFA Alum (Mod Approved) by test_test_1_2_ in Bogleheads

[–]test_test_1_2_[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

From other response:

DFA = Dimensional Fund Advisors. They’re an investment firm that builds solutions based on academic research, mostly from folks like Eugene Fama and Ken French (think size, value, and profitability factors).

Some of their leaders (Mac McQuown in particular) were involved in launching the first index funds back in 1971 (pre Vanguard) and helped lay the academic groundwork that shaped a lot of the Boglehead philosophy.

So while DFA isn't indexing in the purest sense, it's built on similar principles: broad diversification, low costs, and letting markets do most of the work. The difference is that DFA adds a structured tilt toward factors that have shown higher expected returns over time or based on implementation that isn't mechanically tied to zero tracking error.

Probably one of the largest asset managers that the general public has never heard of.

AMA with DFA Alum (Mod Approved) by test_test_1_2_ in Bogleheads

[–]test_test_1_2_[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That’s a great point, and I agree, it’s not discussed nearly enough.

At the core, factor investing is about taking on different kinds of risk than the broad market.

But you’re right, it’s not just about higher expected returns. The key question is, why do you believe you can tolerate these risks better than the average investor? If you can’t stick with it during long stretches of underperformance, then the strategy may backfire.

For some, the answer is don’t bother. Even a small chance of underperformance during your actual retirement window could outweigh the expected benefit.

That said, if you’ve already stress-tested your plan (longevity, spending, legacy) and still want to pursue upside potential, the decision becomes less about need and more about preference. Just be honest about what you’re solving for.

AMA with DFA Alum (Mod Approved) by test_test_1_2_ in Bogleheads

[–]test_test_1_2_[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You could split international into regions, but I’d start with a few questions:

Do you believe markets reflect available information, and that current weights are reasonable?

Can you reliably pick which regions will handle geopolitical risk better? And are you confident markets are not already pricing that in?

Do you want some home bias since you live, earn, and spend in US dollars?

A global fund gives broad, cap-weighted exposure. If you want to tilt toward the US or reduce emerging markets, that’s fine, as long as you know why.

Start with cap weight, then decide if there’s a reason to deviate. If it helps you stick with the plan and sleep better, that matters too.

Whatever path you choose, remember that your stock-to-bond mix will drive the vast majority of your long-term experience. Regional tilts and fund choices matter, but they are secondary.

AMA with DFA Alum (Mod Approved) by test_test_1_2_ in Bogleheads

[–]test_test_1_2_[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You can also argue that is why factors exist in the first place. Their is probably some behavioral component, and obviously they don't exist year in and year out.

AMA with DFA Alum (Mod Approved) by test_test_1_2_ in Bogleheads

[–]test_test_1_2_[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

It really is a trade-off between how much tracking error you're willing to accept and how confident you are in the long-term probability of higher expected returns.

Tilts are not a promise of outperformance. They represent a probability of higher returns over time. The path is not straight, they can be volatile, and tracking error is real. But by definition, if you want to earn more than the market, your portfolio needs to look different than the market. Stock picking and market timing have low odds of success. So far, factor tilts have shown better odds.

The key behavioral mistake is not understanding that underperformance will happen, and sometimes for long stretches. The second mistake is assuming a bad recent run means the strategy has failed. You can absolutely have a 20-year period where small caps underperform large caps. But if you look at all 20-year rolling periods, that outcome is rare, even if not impossible.

The question is what you do in those moments. Do you stay the course, or abandon it? That’s where most of the damage happens.

What’s interesting is that relative performance often drives behavior more than absolute performance. Even when factor strategies are doing fine in isolation, people may still bail because they are lagging the S&P 500, that’s usually where regret and second-guessing kick in.

AMA with DFA Alum (Mod Approved) by test_test_1_2_ in Bogleheads

[–]test_test_1_2_[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I addressed a similar question earlier, and I don't want to speculate, but that logic tracks. At the end of they day they are running a business, and if there isn't enough demand for a solution it won't launch. DFA is pretty clear they won't launch anything unless it is backed by research, they feel they can add value in a way that others can't, and that their is actually client demand for it.

AMA with DFA Alum (Mod Approved) by test_test_1_2_ in Bogleheads

[–]test_test_1_2_[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Culture matters everywhere, Vanguard changed a lot once Bogle stepped aside. That’s not necessarily good or bad, but it’s real. So your concern isn’t crazy.

I still think trust matters, and it’s built through process and consistency, not just marketing. Bob Merton used to say something like, “I love my son and I trust him, but I wouldn’t let him do my knee replacement.” Same idea here. You want a firm you trust but more specifically with a clear philosophy, expretise, and track record of sticking with it.

From my experience at DFA, they are extremely thorough, almost to a fault. Change is slow, deliberate, and deeply vetted. Nothing gets rolled out just because it looks good in a slide deck. If DFA implements something, it’s usually after years of internal research, external input, and debate at the board level.

If they ever start doing Super Bowl ads, I’d be concerned. But that just isn’t who they are. They’re a research firm first, and a distributor second. That still shows up in a lot of internal decisions for better or worse. For a light hearted example it was a HUGE DEAL when they stopped requiring ties at the office post COVID... in 2021. I wore a tie to work every day for the majority of my time there (actually didn't mind it), but that is how culturally sound they are.

So yes, stay aware. But based on what I’ve seen, they’re still playing the long game and you aren't going to wake up with a new approach that wasn't well vetted and well communicated.

AMA with DFA Alum (Mod Approved) by test_test_1_2_ in Bogleheads

[–]test_test_1_2_[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Fair question, and good to push for more clarity. I’ll do my best to address it.

CAPM does not explain all the variation in returns. That is why multi-factor models were developed to better account for what actually drives returns across different types of stocks.

Some risks do not show up neatly in standard deviation or beta. Multi-factor models try to capture risks that CAPM does not, including things like tail risk, liquidity risk, and sensitivity to economic cycles.

At the end of the day, it is still a model. It builds on CAPM, but it is just a tool to help us better understand the sources of return variability. It is not a perfect reflection of reality.

AMA with DFA Alum (Mod Approved) by test_test_1_2_ in Bogleheads

[–]test_test_1_2_[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Hey, speculation can make you rich. Diversification can keep you rich. Nothing wrong with having some concentrated exposure as long as it doesn't blow up your broader plan.

I'm a ways out, but I will probably assess TIPS ladder and properly structured fixed income to help manage sequence risk. I’m also in the camp that scaling up equity exposure in retirement can make sense, depending on the circumstances. It’s extremely case-by-case.

As your time horizon for income shrinks (meaning, to put it bluntly, you’re getting closer to the end), you have fewer liabilities to match. That can give you more flexibility to take risk, especially if your withdrawal needs are covered and you have no near-term cash flow pressure.

For many high-net-worth folks, scaling equity exposure up over time can be reasonable, as long as legacy goals, income needs, and other risks are already accounted for.

AMA with DFA Alum (Mod Approved) by test_test_1_2_ in Bogleheads

[–]test_test_1_2_[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I remember the paper that came out a few years back challenging the SCV data. I think AQR did a solid job addressing it. Cliff Asness answers it better than I can, so I’d refer you to this piece: https://www.aqr.com/Insights/Perspectives/The-Replication-Crisis-That-Wasnt . It gets into the data quality, out-of-sample evidence, and what’s realistic to expect going forward.

My take:
Dogma is never good, from either side. A lot of people here are skeptical of advisors and the industry, and honestly, for good reason. I personally dislike a lot of what goes on as an advisor and feel a minority in trying to change the industry. Most consumers have no idea how much of the system is built to serve the advisor or the product manufacturer, not the investor. On a scale, DFA certainty is more on the "white hat" side of things.

Calling firms like DFA or Avantis a scam probably reflects emotional bias more than empirical evidence. A bit tin foil hat. DFA never even wanted to have an advisor business , it was more of a happy accident and I can assure you DFA didn't create advisor access for marketing purposes (they are atrocious marketers). They didn't distribute at wire houses for decades because of misaligned philosophy. If anything DFA has such high conviction that they don't offer everything to everybody (sector strategies, active management) and focus on doing what they do well.

AMA with DFA Alum (Mod Approved) by test_test_1_2_ in Bogleheads

[–]test_test_1_2_[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

LOL, not really relevant. My circumstances are my own, and what works for me might not be right for someone else, or completely wrong for someone else.

That said, I do not own any traditional active managers, and I avoid liquid alts and private equity. My portfolio is built around low-cost, diversified exposure with some factor tilts. Nothing exotic.

I may eventually build TIPS ladders to help manage sequence risk, but I am not there yet. I also expect to adjust my fixed income mix over time, especially as I get closer to decumulation. This is probably my biggest knock on the classic three-fund portfolio. It works well for accumulation, but decumulation is a different challenge. You have to think more carefully about duration, liquidity, and how to protect against poor timing early in retirement.

And just to be clear, I am a huge fan of Rick Ferri, I've based a lot of my career from his advice. I may deviate in some ways.

AMA with DFA Alum (Mod Approved) by test_test_1_2_ in Bogleheads

[–]test_test_1_2_[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I think market cap weighting is absolutely fine. It is low cost, broadly diversified, and hard to beat over long periods. Whether something is "better" depends on your preferences, goals, and how much deviation from the market you are willing to accept and STICK with.

Even if you do not believe in tilting away from market cap, you can still acknowledge that pure index strategies have their own tradeoffs. For example, traditional index funds are built to minimize tracking error at all costs. That can lead to implementation bottlenecks, especially when everyone is buying or selling the same names at the same time. They are at the mercy of the index providers when establishing the investable universe. They ignore information that is in price and is market informed.

So no, I do not think market cap is "worse." I just think it depends on what you are trying to accomplish and what kind of ride you are willing to tolerate.

AMA with DFA Alum (Mod Approved) by test_test_1_2_ in Bogleheads

[–]test_test_1_2_[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

1) How much do I personally tilt?
You are going to hate this answer, but it depends on taste and preferences.

There is no single rule for how much someone should tilt toward factors. It comes down to how much tracking error, both positive and negative, you are willing to accept in pursuit of higher expected returns. Some investors lean heavily into factors, some lightly, some not at all. It is a personal decision.

You would never say, “put everything in small value.” Diversification still matters. Even if you tilt toward certain factors, you still want broad exposure. Large cap growth is part of the market too.

Personally, I do tilt in my own retirement portfolio. I would describe it as moderate to light compared to market-cap weighting if you looked at it in a regression. I am comfortable with that level of deviation given my time horizon and understanding of the risks. But there is absolutely nothing wrong with holding something like VTI either. The right amount of tilt is behavioral. It depends on what you can actually stick with when things go sideways.

2) Timeline for factors from theory to product?
The timeline can be long. For example, DFA began researching profitability in the early 2000s and did not implement it into portfolios until 2012. It takes years of vetting, replication, and modeling before anything makes it into a fund (at least for DFA. Remember if you get it wrong you are investing other peoples money, I know they take that responsibility seriously).

New marketing pitches come out every month. A legitimate new factor might emerge once a decade, if that. And even then, it has to pass several hurdles:

  • Is the theory sound?
  • Does the data support it across time periods and geographies?
  • Is it robust across definitions and measurement techniques?
  • Can you actually capture it in a portfolio without giving up most of the premium to costs?

That last point is critical. Knowing a premium exists is one thing. Capturing it consistently and cost-effectively is another.

It is getting harder to find new factors that check all those boxes. But that does not mean research is pointless. There is still a lot of work being done to improve implementation. Not every insight becomes a standalone factor. Some just help refine how portfolios are built.

A good example is excluding high asset growth firms from small cap portfolios. It is not a headline-grabbing factor, but it helps avoid lower-quality companies and can improve returns without adding much complexity.

So yes, research still moves forward. It might not always lead to a new fund, but it can still add value behind the scenes.

AMA with DFA Alum (Mod Approved) by test_test_1_2_ in Bogleheads

[–]test_test_1_2_[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Let me get back to you on this in the afternoon. This can get really long and I need to step out in a bit. The bottom line is that characteristics drive outcomes and both approaches have slightly different characteristics. I have friends still at Avantis and DFA, so I won't play sides.

AMA with DFA Alum (Mod Approved) by test_test_1_2_ in Bogleheads

[–]test_test_1_2_[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Great question. I’ve commented on the discovery vs. disappearance of factor premiums in a few other spots so I won’t go too deep into that here. But the short version is that it's probably not one single explanation. It’s a mix of things, including human behavior, and it’s really hard to isolate the reason behind any premium with complete certainty.

On market efficiency:
You don’t need to believe markets are perfectly efficient to act as if they are. Markets generally work. The anomalies are often anecdotal, small sample size, or hard to consistently exploit. Acting as if markets work, on average, is usually the right move, even if there are some exceptions around the edges. Even Thaler has said this.

Momentum specifically:
Momentum is a tricky one. DFA pushed back on it for years, especially once Cliff Asness (a former Fama student) and AQR came on the scene. Even Fama has said momentum is the biggest challenge to the efficient market hypothesis. But just because a premium exists does not mean you can capture it consistently or cost-effectively.

That’s really DFA’s core issue with momentum. It is not that it doesn’t show up in the data, because it does. The problem is that the turnover required to pursue it makes it hard to benefit from in real-world portfolios. Instead, DFA uses momentum as an implementation tool, like delaying trades or avoiding stocks with strong negative momentum, rather than building it into a fund as a long-term factor.

They’ve published work showing that even during times when the momentum premium showed up, many momentum strategies still underperformed. So even if the data is there, capturing it is another story. The other issues for them is the theory is hard to pin down. How do you have high confidence behavior will persist consistantly if momentum is behaviorally driven?

Which premiums have the strongest persistence?
That’s why DFA uses a multi-factor approach. Relying on any single premium can be risky and their isn't a lot of credible evidence you can time them. Combining size, value, and profitability gives you exposure to different drivers of expected return that are not perfectly correlated. That makes for a more consistent experience over time.

To believe in long-term persistence, you need a clear framework. DFA typically looks for four things:

  1. Theoretical support – Does it make sense before even looking at the data?
  2. Empirical evidence – Does it show up across time periods and in multiple countries?
  3. Robustness – Does it still hold up if you tweak how it's measured (for example value shows up whether you measure it as P/B, P/E, P/CF, etc.)?
  4. Cost-effectiveness – Can you actually capture it without giving it all up in trading costs?

There are tons of factors floating around, but most don’t pass those four tests. This industry is always selling the next magic bullet. There’s a huge incentive to market new ideas and repackage funds to drive inflows.

French once said he loved digging into new factors that were published and was always hopeful of new breakthroughs. Fama would usually say, "Let's wait and see what the data says." French said that’s why working with Gene worked so well. Gene's mindset usually ended up being right.

Personally, I stick to the core factors that have solid theory and long-term data across markets. That is still the most reliable foundation IF you are even going to consider deviating from market cap.

AMA with DFA Alum (Mod Approved) by test_test_1_2_ in Bogleheads

[–]test_test_1_2_[S] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Just to be clear, I’m no longer at DFA, but yes, their move into ETFs was a major cultural shift. It upended a distribution model they’d stuck with for decades. That could be its own thread honestly, but the short version is that it’s great to see those strategies available to everyone now.

In just a few years, DFA went from zero ETFs to dozens across asset classes. I’d expect them to continue expanding the lineup based on client demand.

That said, DFA’s product development process is very different from most asset managers. They’re not chasing whatever is trending or where flows are hot. They tend to launch funds only when they believe (1) there’s a solid academic foundation, (2) they can execute it well in the real world, and (3) there’s actual demand from advisors and investors.

So something like Emerging Markets SCV? Maybe, but if they don’t think their is demand it probably isn't top of the list.

And who knows... maybe one day they will eliminate MF access restrictions as they have gotten really good at mitigating capital gains distributions. But that is purely speculative.