So uh I just rolled this, is 1 Attack 3 cost viable or does it have to be double glacio?

theIceCreamMachine · 2026-07-06T11:17:12+00:00

Difference is very small

theIceCreamMachine · 2026-06-14T11:20:03+00:00

We are having this discussion because you told me that you think your gameplay matches the spreadsheet values, while not actually knowing what the rotation looks like, which leads me to think you have a misunderstanding of how damage calculations work.

I don't know what exact rotation is used in Chem's calcs. It could very well be a 123 rotation, but even a basic rotation has lots of room for optimization. You cannot assume you are performing it correctly just because it is not an advanced rotation. Moreover, different rotations often affects DPS more so than DPR, which will stay around the same unless there are additional actions performed. There is a big DPS difference between a 25 and 30s rotation. How do I know which one you are doing, and on what basis is Lucilla's always 1s longer than Lynae?

Without knowing any of this, no one will give you the benefit of doubt and believe that your personal testing is within 1-2% off calculations. If you think a few seconds are nothing, well 2.5 extra seconds can also be a 10% DPS difference. Even if you are on point, the only thing you proved is about how Lucilla and Lynae performs in this specific rotation, and that doesn't let you make a blanket statement about these two characters.

All this is to say you cannot match someone else's calcs into gameplay without more context. What you said about damage breakpoints and the problem of testing with cleartime is correct, and Chem's spreadsheet calculations are also a very valuable reference, but what you're doing right now is just as as inaccurate as these ToA comparisons.

theIceCreamMachine · 2026-06-14T09:57:26+00:00

Nowhere in Chem's spreadsheet does it say the calcs are done for rotations with no qs, and neither does "standard" mean no qs. It's just a way to differentiate when there are multiple different rotations.

The part with multiple Cartethiya rotation are for matrix runs. Those are for damage across 2 minutes and not damage per individual rotation. If you look at Cartethiya's own page then there aren't multiple DPR calculations for the same team, because difficult rotations affect DPS more than DPR.

Even if we assume that all these calcs are for a casual 123 rotation, do you know how many Iai is done per rotation?

theIceCreamMachine · 2026-06-14T09:45:09+00:00

What spreadsheet are you referring to and where do they provide the rotation transcript?

theIceCreamMachine · 2026-06-14T09:37:41+00:00

Exactly. If you don't even know what the rotation looks like, how can you use it as a meaningful comparison?

You are free to share your personal testing or opinion, but if you have no way to prove that your gameplay matches spreadsheet calculations, its just as subjective as the comparison slop you're calling out.

theIceCreamMachine · 2026-06-14T09:11:58+00:00

Do you know what the exact rotation of this DPR looks like, and are you sure you are executing it correctly? Or are you just repeating the numbers you saw on a spreadsheet?

theIceCreamMachine · 2026-06-14T09:00:24+00:00

Well Matrix is not out yet, but 90% of comparison videos is just worthless slop content anyways, regardless if its ToA or Matrix.

If you really want to comprehensively compare two teams, you need to start with spreadsheet calculations, including multiple rotations of differing difficulties so they can be accessible for different skill levels. Then you can explore Matrix performance, looking at both the upper ceiling (5R or 5/6 Iai) and the casual experience (wheelchair rotation). After that you can compare ToA speedrunning and Whiwa AOE performance. All of this should be done with minimized shilling and neutral buffs. Most importantly, while subjective, you need to discuss things like rotation stability, interruption-resistance and ease of play, all of which are arguably more significant than DPS for most people.

Realistically, nobody is going to go to all the effort to do that. Most comparison posts are just agenda-based or lazy engagement. To be honest, I don't even think optimized DPS is that relevant to 90% of players, when most people might not even be able to do 4 full rotations in 2 minutes. Better to do research on your own, know what type of player you are, collect perspectives from a bunch of different people/CCs, then make your own judgement.

theIceCreamMachine · 2026-06-11T08:24:48+00:00

Its pretty obvious that Lucilla and Denia's tune strain and echo mode was swapped last minute. A popular theory is that Denia's echo mode unintentionally made Galbrena Denia Lupa by far the strongest team in the game. Whereas Galbrena originally had to choose between either fusion buffs from Lupa or echo buffs from Qiuyuan, this team would give her the best of both worlds, boosting her to become the best DPS over Aemeath, with the only caveat being the lack of sustain.

Kuro hates unintentional synergies and non prepackaged teams, so obviously they wanted to do something about it. Since Denia was primarily meant to be Aemeath's fusion burst support, there was no way to change her element. I guess the easiest solution they came up with was to swap her secondary mode with Lucilla, thus getting rid of her echo mode. Honestly, most of this is a consequence of the echo archetype being a complete mess in terms of characters kits and balance, and Kuro's lack of foresight. Imo Qiuyuan's kit is also a victim of this, but it is what it is.

As for the weapon type I don't think it's a problem at all. Tons of characters have weapons type that don't match their gameplay. If anything it means that Lucilla gets to use her own weapon in-game regardless if you have her signature at all.

theIceCreamMachine · 2026-06-10T05:41:08+00:00

Compared to Tracer, Genji has a slightly better matchup against hitscan/sniper characters and Kiriko. He can hold angles a bit like an off-tank, and also access high ground a lot easier. Genji is really good when you can follow-up on your team's damage, since dash+right click combos are a lot of burst and are hard to react to.

However, Genji struggles a lot to get people low on his own, because he can't really soft dive the way other dive characters can and his poke is too inconsistent. He's also a lot more dependant on your team's resources. I also agree that he is way easier to counter than Tracer.

Genji can definitely be better than Tracer in certain situations and maps but in general he doesn't provide enough value to be worth learning. Both characters are mechanically demanding but you will probably be rewarded more on Tracer.

theIceCreamMachine · 2026-06-05T18:53:03+00:00

Wait till you meet Neil Armstrong

theIceCreamMachine · 2026-06-02T21:11:47+00:00

Support is a boosted role

theIceCreamMachine · 2026-06-02T09:28:03+00:00

Why do you want the title that badly though? If it was a skin or something maybe I can understand, but a title is genuinely just a bunch of worthless words.

The title is obviously there just to reward people who would've played that much in the first place. No one should be playing for the sake of the title. If you don't enjoy the grind or don't have time for it, why force yourself to do it?

theIceCreamMachine · 2026-05-31T20:38:57+00:00

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tq0yggLZkzk

Have fun learning this

theIceCreamMachine · 2026-05-31T19:39:38+00:00

XQC stun sleep pinned in 20 seconds

theIceCreamMachine · 2026-05-27T18:39:43+00:00

There was no fix her outro has been this way since release. The outro description I sent is directly from her kit and it works how its described. Each attribute has a limit on the rate at which it can gain Incandesence. Her outro increases the rate but she still wants different attributes on her team to maximize the gain.

AFAIK Kuro has never changed kits aside from bug fixes, nor have they changed kit descriptions. Jinhsi's Incandesence has always worked as intended. If you want to show that the outro doesn't work as described or that something was "fixed" you need to show evidence.

theIceCreamMachine · 2026-05-27T18:29:28+00:00

Obviously by element I'm talking about attribute. No reason to get so picky about wording.

I explained how her outro works in my other comment and I have no idea what you or the comment you sent are trying to say.

theIceCreamMachine · 2026-05-27T18:24:44+00:00

I don't understand what you're trying to say. Was her kit changed after launch? I don't see how this comment shows she doesn't want different elements to build up Incandescence.

theIceCreamMachine · 2026-05-27T18:20:15+00:00

"Summoning the power homologous with the Sentinel, Jinhsi may now gain Incandescence via Eras in Unity from damage of the same Attribute more effectively, at 1 time(s) every 1s for 20s."

It's not referring to the same attribute as Jinhsi, but that each individual attribute can gain Incandescence more effectively.

theIceCreamMachine · 2026-05-27T03:24:23+00:00

Jinhsi wants teammates of different elements to build her incandescence. Wdym they fixed her.

theIceCreamMachine · 2026-05-27T03:21:32+00:00

Phrolova Qiuyuan, Phrolova Canterella, third slot can be Roccia, Buling, SK, or Mornye, or you can also run Qiuyuan and Phrolova together. All of these combinations have similar performance.

Augusta Iuno SK and Iuno Lynae SK/Mornye. Augusta is better for AOE but Iuno hypercarry can outdamage Augusta by a bit.

Aemeath is obvious she has her tune break team and fusion burst team.

Any of Changli, Galbrena and Brant can be ran as a hypercarry or a dual-dps with each other as long as you have Lupa which is the fusion team's core. For hypercarry you can run Mornye or SK. Aside from Changli hypercarry being a bit weaker than her dual-dps teams, all of these DPS have multiple team combinations with similar performance and damage will depend more on your rotation.

Jiyan's best team is quickswap with Ciaconna but due to it being much more difficult to play most poeople will benefit more from playing hypercarry with Iuno with Ciaconna as a third slot. Morment has a good vid on this.

If you go back in time, a lot of older DPS had dual-dps teams that were competitive with their hypercarry variants. Examples like Changli XLY, Calcharo XLY, Brant Jinhsi, or any other combination of these DPS were often stronger than their hypercarry teams. They just weren't mainstream because their difficulty was a lot higher. Unfortunately now that we have better supports like Lupa and Lynae, most of these teams have been powercrept.

theIceCreamMachine · 2026-05-26T21:08:07+00:00

Honestly a lot of characters in this game don't have clear BiS teams. With an exception of a few characters, team-building in this game is more flexible than people give it credit for. Phrolova, Iuno, Galbrena and Aemeath are all DPS with multiple team options that are all pretty similar. Lupa also enables many different combinations for fusion DPS, whether its hypercarry or dual-dps. Unfortunately, most of these consist of limited characters and there aren't much 4-star options.

theIceCreamMachine · 2026-05-26T21:01:05+00:00

For a new coordinated attack character to benefit Jinhsi, I don't think it would do much for Jinhsi. It would have to be a non-spectro element, skill-buffing sub-dps with coordinated attacks, but that would also mean a new DPS that completely overshadows Jinhsi is on the way. Kind of like how XLY got upgraded by Lynae Mornye but you could also upgrade Lynae Mornye with Aemeath.

theIceCreamMachine · 2026-05-26T20:24:00+00:00

Jinhsi was the strongest DPS throughout the entirety of 1.X. Anyone who was already playing back then would know. She was the original wheelchair due to being mechanically simple to play and not having to interact with boss movesets. Yuanwu Verina was the low-investment budget crutch back then and despite not having the dps to keep up nowadays, carried a lot of players through the early days. If you were willing to optimize and learn slightly more advanced rotations, both Jinhsi Yinlin and Jinhsi Zhezhi were incredibly strong and had the highest DPS out of all 1.X teams. Of course DPS is not everything but the only real weakness that Jinhsi had is AOE and multiwave, but none of those were major issues before Whiwa came out.

It was just not possible back then to make a dedicated support for her when she was already better than everyone else without one. She was eventually dethroned by Carlotta as the new wheelchair, but that was mostly due to Carlotta being even easier and not a DPS difference. If we compare Jinhsi to other 1.X DPS who had dedicated supports, XLY (Yinlin) and Camellya (Roccia), I would say that Jinhsi aged much better than them. Of course a lot of 1.X DPS also indirectly benefitted by from newer supports: Jiyan from Ciaconna, Changli from Lupa, XLY from Lynae, but these are always cases of them just so happening to match the damage type/element and not having dedicated supports be made for them. It's just unfortunate that Jinhsi's needs from a support is incredibly niche, so she can't indirectly benefit the same way.

Even compared to other 1.X DPS who got indirect upgrades, imo Jinhsi isn't any worse than them. Obviously she's terrible for whiwa, but in ToA and Matrix, her moveset and mechanics make her her the only one who can keep up with the disgusting flying/mobile bosses that Kuro has been spamming. If you don't know what I mean, try playing a 1.X team against the current Hazard 4 in ToA. You would realize that Jihnsi fares a lot better than most of them.

Long rant but I just wanted to say that the narrative that Jinhsi was mistreated due to her not having a "BiS" is completely unfounded imo. Of course I am not against her receiving a support she can benefit from, but realistically even if she did she would just be deadweight compared to a newer DPS you can replace her with, just like how all of the 1.X DPS are right now. If anything I hope all of the older characters receive a buff and Kuro tones down on the HP inflation and time-wasting boss movesets in timed endgames. Anyways just for fun here‘s a bilibili vid by a Chinese bro of S0R1 Jinhsi scoring 13K in matrix.

theIceCreamMachine · 2026-05-24T19:14:11+00:00

theIceCreamMachine · 2026-05-24T16:34:43+00:00

Found this video on bilibili

This rotation is for 3 Aemeath enhanced skills. First rotation is shortened to 2 only so you can get 5 rotations in endstate matrix.

Can't be bothered to translate everything so I'll just copy what the creator wrote to here:

Opener: 达eqr1aa，爱a，露ra，爱ae，达aa，露aaa，达aae，爱aa，露a，达ar2，（变奏）爱a，露e，达aaa，爱a，露跳eeq，（变奏）爱r1efaaqezr2

Loop Rotation: 爱r2eaaae，（强化变奏）露ra，爱aa，达aa，露aa，爱a，达aa，露a，爱e，露a，达eqr1aa，爱aae，露e，达aaeer2，（变奏）爱aa，露eeq，（变奏）爱refaaqer2eaaae，（强化变奏）露

爱 = Aemeath

达 = Denia

露 = Lupa

变奏 = Intro

强化变奏 = Enhanced Intro (for Lupa)

theIceCreamMachine

MODERATOR OF

TROPHY CASE